J-Mo's Workbench

[J-Mo Arts]

Hello everyone,

I'm starting this thread to log my progress in making some B&CDR locomotives and stock. Right now I have plans to make the 4-4-2 and the 0-4-2 tank engines :

 

I'll be drawing these up in CAD and 3D printing them. I have a fictional Newtownards to Portaferry branch line in mind, so although I'd really like to make the 4-4-2 I think that I should make a nice train of bashed Hornby/Triang clerestories behind a little 0-4-2 to start with.

Thanks for reading!

[Georgeconna]

Nice one I tune in here to see progress.

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Looking forward to seeing your progress. 

[J-Mo Arts]

A start on the 4-4-2...

It might not be 100% accurate but I'm liking it so far... One thing I've noticed is the Belpaire firebox should be a lot more rounded on the sides, something I will have to amend. 

 

A 14xx is arriving soon to donate a chassis to the B&CDR, I'll also take measurements from the outline of that to make the 0-4-2.

[Westcorkrailway]

21 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

A start on the 4-4-2...

It might not be 100% accurate but I'm liking it so far... One thing I've noticed is the Belpaire firebox should be a lot more rounded on the sides, something I will have to amend. 

 

A 14xx is arriving soon to donate a chassis to the B&CDR, I'll also take measurements from the outline of that to make the 0-4-2.

Brilliant stuff this 3d printing. Ive a long list of engines id like to try 3d printing it as does plenty of others I reckon! Number 90 has already been tried and succeded....BCDR tank will be wonderful to see too

[David Holman]

May not be scratchbuilding in the traditional sense, but still requires a lot of skill and practice. Great to see steam outline models being made too. Looking forward to seeing progress.

[Galteemore]

Very nice work so far. The signature features such as the cab windows are coming through.

[J-Mo Arts]

So the 0-4-2 that I made this afternoon didn't quite go to plan:

There's a lot wrong with it. The tanks aren't tall enough, the lip on the bunker is too big, the list goes on. I can't get the tank taller while keeping the lip and top details at the right height, if anyone knows how to do this in Fusion360 please do let me know! 

As it and the 14xx chassis that it fits are far too big to be the intended prototype I think it'll become a fictional class of locomotives for operating my fictional Newtownards to Portaferry branch.

 

When this line was built around 1898-1904 the CME realised that a class of modern tank locomotives needed to be built to operate passenger and goods trains along the line under the strict regulations of the Light Railways Act of 1896, and so a larger sister loco to the older 0-4-2Ts from Sharp, Stewart and Co found its way to the BCDR. Making the branch operate as a light railway was economical for the BCDR and apart from the construction of the locomotives there was no huge cost to opening the line. The locomotives had a light axle load, and the trains were usually relatively short.

Something like that, anyway...

[RobertRoche]

4 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

I can't get the tank taller while keeping the lip and top details at the right height, if anyone knows how to do this in Fusion360 please do let me know! 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but I assume that something is changing when you don't want it to. My methods in Fusion are pretty brute force so you might know better than me but you could try the following;

Make a copy of the body that you are working on and turn this new body off. Do not move the body.

Extrude and remove everything away on the original body except the part you want to change.

Turn the original body off and the new body on. On the new body extrude/remove the part that you want to change.

Now when both bodies are turned on you should have individual parts, and you should be able to change the part you want to alter without messing with the other geometry. You can fix whatever inconsistencies remain afterwards and you can combine everything together when done.

[Galteemore]

Looks very nice! Good plan for the model too, as a ‘nevawazza’. What may help cement the illusion is incorporating typical BCDR features such as the smokebox handrail, quadruple front cab windows, and the curved tanks.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Galteemore

[J-Mo Arts]

45 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Looks very nice! Good plan for the model too, as a ‘nevawazza’. What may help cement the illusion is incorporating typical BCDR features such as the smokebox handrail, quadruple front cab windows, and the curved tanks.

How's this? Handrail to go on later.

47 minutes ago, RobertRoche said:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean but I assume that something is changing when you don't want it to. My methods in Fusion are pretty brute force so you might know better than me but you could try the following;

Make a copy of the body that you are working on and turn this new body off. Do not move the body.

Extrude and remove everything away on the original body except the part you want to change.

Turn the original body off and the new body on. On the new body extrude/remove the part that you want to change.

Now when both bodies are turned on you should have individual parts, and you should be able to change the part you want to alter without messing with the other geometry. You can fix whatever inconsistencies remain afterwards and you can combine everything together when done.

Thanks for this. What I mean is extruding the tanks upwards while also moving the details on them upwards too. 

Instead of them staying where they are and the tank top moving around them (see above). If I go back in the history and change the height, the cab goes funny and holes appear...

I'll give your suggestion a go tomorrow.

[Galteemore]

Very nice indeed. Paint it right and will look most convincing. 

[RobertRoche]

13 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

Thanks for this. What I mean is extruding the tanks upwards while also moving the details on them upwards too. 

Instead of them staying where they are and the tank top moving around them (see above). If I go back in the history and change the height, the cab goes funny and holes appear...

An easier option in this situation might be to draw a rectangle on the top face of the tank and offset 0.1mm. Extrude this out the bottom of the body which will cut it in two, forming a second body. Use the move tool to move the top of the tank up and clean up afterwards.

[J-Mo Arts]

Does anyone know which paint to use for the dark green livery? I'm thinking a Phoenix GNR loco green with BR mixed traffic lining transfers. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[J-Mo Arts]

I've started painting her, but not finished yet. Also, the 14xx I bought didn't come with traction tyres, hence the middle wheel sitting oddly. I will buy some of these at some point soon. I will probably print off a better body at some point too as the coal rails failed to print on this one and a few other minor things, but I'm happy enough with this so far.

[RobertRoche]

That looks great 

[Galteemore]

Excellent. Making progress fast !

[J-Mo Arts]

Not much to report visually over the weekend. I've amended my design to include a bit more support on the coal rails and I've added valances. The traction tyres are now fitted and she runs much better, but needs a bit of weight over the trailing axle. I'll print of a 'Mk2' soon, get that painted up and ready to go. 

As for coaches/stock, would people recommend Ratio kits? I've found a brake 6 wheeler to 3d print from Thingiverse and I'll do that soon too, by itself it may form part of a track gang train or something.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the BCDR but from what I've read they used almost exclusively 6 wheeled carriages, plus they ran a goods service from Newtownards to Portaferry by road so plenty of wagons will be needed too! 

 

Thanks

[jhb171achill]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2021 at 1:36 PM, J-Mo Arts said:

Does anyone know which paint to use for the dark green livery? I'm thinking a Phoenix GNR loco green with BR mixed traffic lining transfers. 

Sorry, only seeing this now.

A very dark green indeed; don't use No. 30 in Cultra as an example, as it is totally incorrect. I would go a good few shades darker than BR loco green. Tried to find a pic just now but couldn't. If I do, I'll post it here. Someone else posted pics of BCDR loco green recently.

When dirty, like CIE grey, it could look almost black.

Lining was red and white. 

[jhb171achill]

58 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

Not much to report visually over the weekend. I've amended my design to include a bit more support on the coal rails and I've added valances. The traction tyres are now fitted and she runs much better, but needs a bit of weight over the trailing axle. I'll print of a 'Mk2' soon, get that painted up and ready to go. 

As for coaches/stock, would people recommend Ratio kits? I've found a brake 6 wheeler to 3d print from Thingiverse and I'll do that soon too, by itself it may form part of a track gang train or something.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the BCDR but from what I've read they used almost exclusively 6 wheeled carriages, plus they ran a goods service from Newtownards to Portaferry by road so plenty of wagons will be needed too! 

 

Thanks

Yes, they only had a few bogies, and most of these rarely strayed off the Bangor line!

To model the BCDR, six-wheelers are just not possible to do without, but there's good news here, as Hattons now have RTR 6-wheelers. Some of these are in maroon liveries. While these coaches are closest in design to GSWR designs, and in fact don't resemble other Irish companies at all, in the absence of anything else I'd get a dozen or so to make up a couple of BCDR passenger sets. Nothing buyable resembles BCDR bogies, but, again, a bit of artistic licence, and get a bogie with no end gangways to represent one of the several they got the NCC to build for them for the Bangor line. 

For the main part, you'll need 0.6.0 tender engines, or 2.4.2 / 4.4.2 tank engines.

BCDR coach livery: Black chassis, light grey roofs (weathered!), maroon ends and sides - same shade as LMS maroon, conveniently, as were the GSR, Clogher Valley and NCC! Post-war, many were unlined. Prewar all were lined pale yellow.

Wagons: Grey all over. The grey was significantly darker than the neighbouring GNR or NCC, almost like a charcoal grey. FITTED vehicles ONLY were often in a bauxite brown. Ironwork was body colour above platform level, black below, unlike GNR, GSR or other wagons which were body colour all over.

It is worth pointing out too, albeit going off on a bit of a tangent, that there seems to be confusion on when wagons were brown instead of grey.

Many British companies painted fitted wagons brown, others grey. The BCDR and UTA seem to have copied this, and in later days the GNR. The GSR and CIE never did - they painted everything grey, but about 1970 as a livery change, started painting all wagons brown. Nothing to do with being fitted otherwise.

The BCDR was unusual for Ireland in having several operators of private owner wagons along the way, in particular the open wagons of the East Downshire Co., based at Dundrum, and used for carrying coal. Provincial Wagons do a kit of these. The livery was plain grey, of a much lighter shade than BCDR grey, and with lettering in pale yellow instead of white. Ironwork was grey too.

There are no commercially available RTR wagons that approximate to BCDR goods vans of brake vans. Ordinary opens can be used, repainted in a very dark grey, to give a good impression.

[J-Mo Arts]

@jhb171achill, thanks a lot for the information! I don't think I'll be able to afford, or indeed have the capacity for, such a large fleet of coaches, but one or two would be nice and the shared livery with the LMS is useful for finding paints. 

I note your point about locomotives, I found a few drawings in the Manchester science museum which I may use to make a nice tender engine.

Many thanks again! 

[jhb171achill]

18 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

@jhb171achill, thanks a lot for the information! I don't think I'll be able to afford, or indeed have the capacity for, such a large fleet of coaches, but one or two would be nice and the shared livery with the LMS is useful for finding paints. 

I note your point about locomotives, I found a few drawings in the Manchester science museum which I may use to make a nice tender engine.

Many thanks again! 

You should be able to buy tins of LMS maroon from somewhere like Mark's Models or some such similar place. The new 6-wheeled coaches - maybe buy three or four to make one passenger set!

[Galteemore]

Look forward to seeing this develop. My dad’s introduction to railways was being set on the footplate of a BCDR loco at Donaghadee c 1948. He’s never forgotten the smell of coal and hot oil. Although my railway loyalties lie to the south and west of Ulster, the BCDR has grown on me over the years. I’ve come to appreciate the high points of its history such as the 1940s renaissance of 2-4-0 no 6, and the highly impressive Comber-Belfast timings. BTW Halford’s Rover crimson spray paint is a good and cheap way to get a nice BCDR carriage colour. Here it is on a little LSWR saloon I built a few years ago....

Edited February 24, 2021 by Galteemore

[J-Mo Arts]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I haven't yet managed to print off my new body (sidetracked with 6th form and narrow gauge, so I thought I'd upload a picture of the CAD drawing:

This is the 6-wheeled coach that I mentioned, not my design but I'm happy enough using it for now. I am thinking about the new pre-grouping coaches in NBR livery as they're quite attractive, however I would probably repaint them anyway to fit with any printed/kit coaches I paint. 

 

Thanks for reading!

 

[J-Mo Arts]

I've printed the amended engine off and she's being painted, I'll share a picture in due course. 

As for a running space - my layout is a WIP end-to-end run set in southern England ca.1939/40. I have one station planned and half built but at the other end I am planning to have a halt which will double for the BCDR halt serving Portaferry. I will take Wootton (as preserved) on the Isle of Wight as inspiration for this:

A simple platform, headshunt and run round loop. The buildings will be painted in as passable colours as possible for both the SR and BCDR as from what I've seen they're relatively close, and I'll leave off any insignia or company names. I may have a level crossing over the headshunt for some visual interest. 

As for the name, I was thinking 'Portaferry Marlfield Road', 'Abbacy Road' or 'Portaferry Mountain Road'; I like the idea that the station is a short distance from the town itself. 

 

Any comments or advice on this are very welcome! 

Thanks for reading and stay safe

Edited April 7, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[Galteemore]

Sounds like a nice plan. Such a simple layout needs a rationale though, as in real life a terminus normally needs some kind of goods facility etc. Wingham (Canterbury Road) is about as basic as it gets, and it was atypical.http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/wingham_canterbury_road/

Are you going to pretend these facilities are offscene? Or perhaps this could be Portaferry Harbour, for passenger traffic only, a short extension from Portaferry proper. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Galteemore

[J-Mo Arts]

8 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Are you going to pretend these facilities are offscene? 

I was considering having a small siding off the run-round loop (at the end furthest from the camera). At the IoWSR we are planning to make a goods feature there in due course and I believe the original station had some sidings there. 

 

8 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Or perhaps this could be Portaferry Harbour, for passenger traffic only

I like this idea a lot, but as I already have a town at one end on my layout and it's around 5m long (16ft) I don't really want to clog up the layout with buildings etc... I could always add the Illusion that the line continues on past the station as would have happened at Wootton in the steam days...

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

Edited April 8, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[Galteemore]

Yes, all that’s often required is a suggestion. A level crossing gate at the end of a line suggests continuity in a way that the normal buffer stop does not! This was my rather poor effort when I modelled 1930s Southern (based on Basingstoke/Alton Light Rlwy).

[J-Mo Arts]

58 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

 

That's a very nice scene and not a poor effort at all! 

[J-Mo Arts]

I started making a County Donegal class 3 for 00n3 gauge recently, and this is my progress so far. 

 

It'll be the first loco for which I will make a custom chassis. I've decided to use the Hornby motor from their generic 0-6-0 chassis as it is smaller than the 0-4-0 can motor, I have one spare and will hopefully fit inside the loco ! The 0-4-0 wheels are essentially the right size for the driving wheels so I plan to use them and design bogies for the leading and trailing wheels which I hope to make on a lathe along with the axles. I didn't want to buy wheels as they're so expensive and personally I'm happy to try it this way. 

 

I think I will choose the route of kit building for the rolling stock as the loco will barely fit in my 3d printer, let alone a bogie coach!

 

Thanks for reading!

[David Holman]

Excellent stuff, keep posting!

One dodge I use a lot on my layouts is a siding going off scene into the fiddle yard. On Belmullet, it is harbour branch, for Fintonagh it leads to a transfer siding for broad gauge, while on Arigna Town it was a branch to the coal mines.

 The point is that the siding can be anything you want and because it goes off scene, no extra modelling/space is needed, though you have the opportunity to build whatever stock you might want to serve it.

[jhb171achill]

On 7/4/2021 at 11:08 PM, J-Mo Arts said:

I've printed the amended engine off and she's being painted, I'll share a picture in due course. 

As for a running space - my layout is a WIP end-to-end run set in southern England ca.1939/40. I have one station planned and half built but at the other end I am planning to have a halt which will double for the BCDR halt serving Portaferry. I will take Wootton (as preserved) on the Isle of Wight as inspiration for this:

A simple platform, headshunt and run round loop. The buildings will be painted in as passable colours as possible for both the SR and BCDR as from what I've seen they're relatively close, and I'll leave off any insignia or company names. I may have a level crossing over the headshunt for some visual interest. 

As for the name, I was thinking 'Portaferry Marlfield Road', 'Abbacy Road' or 'Portaferry Mountain Road'; I like the idea that the station is a short distance from the town itself. 

 

Any comments or advice on this are very welcome! 

Thanks for reading and stay safe

Small hint - "Portaferry" would do just fine on its own - it would only have "Something Road" or anything else added if there was a second station in the town - to distinguish it (as in "Portaferry North" or "Portaferry South").

[J-Mo Arts]

Thanks both! 

Unfortunately I don't have space for a fiddle yard on my layout-my carriages are stabled in two sidings at my main station and my running locos in a two road shed. I will however run my track right up to the back scene and make it look like the line continues. 

Jhb- you make a good point about the name and I have been a bit torn about it. I think I may keep to Marlfield Road, perhaps omitting the Portaferry entirely as Marlfield Road (to me, anyway) would sound a bit more in keeping with the Southern side of my layout across the sea in England. 

 

Thanks again

[Mayner]

 

Have you thought of using 5.5mm Scale on OO track rather than OOn3 for modelling the Irish 3' gauge?

This scale gauge combination was used by Sam Carse in his Donegal Railway layout and by other modellers for modelling the Irish 3' before TT gauge was introduced in the 60s.

5.5mm has the advantage that you would be able to use reasonably in-expensive and reliable Hornby 0-4-0, 0-6-0, wagon chassis and bogies in your models, while developing the skill and experience to assemble a loco with outside cylinders, cranks and valve gear, you already seem to have cracked it in terms of 3D modelling.

[Galteemore]

Indeed - as seen here :https://www.rte.ie/archives/2017/0228/856104-when-donegal-had-a-railway/

The video also gives a rare view of 85 Merlin inside the museum before restoration - still filthy from UTA withdrawal! I can just remember seeing here like that. I saw Sam’s  layout once, also c1978.
 

5.5 gives a bit of a volume advantage over 4mm work - a bit more space inside the loco and slightly easier for adding detail! Some S scale bits and pieces may be of use as close enough in scale. 

OOn3 is a little harder to start off in nowadays as TT scale motor plants such as Halling are much harder to source at the moment. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Galteemore