J-Mo's Workbench

[David Holman]

Some sound advice here, which certainly highlights the complexities of 3D printing. All power to you folk who are doing this pioneering work!

[J-Mo Arts]

Thanks everyone for the positive words. I won't give up this project just yet, but I will give it a few days rest to clear my head and start again 

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

I have a soft spot for the Antrim Black Hawthorn saddle tanks and was hoping you would design the Ballymena 0-4-2 version in OOn3.

Thanks for the advice Mayner Do you happen to have a picture of the 0-4-2 version? I can't seem to find one on the Internet and it sounds interesting as another, future project

[J-Mo Arts]

Inspired by @David Holman's lovely layout at Uckfield last weekend and a very kind offer of a running on Fintonagh at a future exhibition I have decided that while I take a break from the Ballycastle loco, my next project will be a 7mm scale 3ft gauge contractor's loco not dissimilar to this:

I have decided to make it 6ft wide by 15ft long, which looks about right to my eye (anyone who actually knows the dimensions of this loco please do say what they are, likewise any differing opinions welcome!). I've ordered a hornby 0-4-0 chassis of scale running speed and some Kadee couplings of the same variety used by David, and I intend to fabricate some new axles for the hornby chassis and make some dummy frames to glue to the sides of the hornby chassis, giving the illusion that the frames are at a more correct spacing. I am probably not going to 3d print the cab sheet as it's quite thin, but will do this in another medium or leave it off and do an open cab. 

Any comments, suggestions, advice or criticism are duly requested! 

Thanks

[David Holman]

Has more than a bit of Quarry Hunslet about it, though with its Robert McAlpine plates was clearly used in the construction industry - anything from railways to dams. He wasn't known as Concrete Bob for nothing!

 For me, freelance 7mm narrow gauge got me started on scratchbuilding, back at the end of the last century (winced at this thought). Plastic sheet for footplate and cab, plastic water pipe for the boiler and whatever was handy for fittings. It's amazing what can be done with brass tube, washers and some filler. These days would think freelancing is a good route to practice 3D printing, while a hybrid model as suggested should also work. That said, a more robust cab could mean printing the whole thing and avoid needing too much detail inside - though that is half the fun some might say.I

 4mm scale chassis scale up very well in terms of performance, with slow running enhanced in the larger scale. My favourite was the 08 shunter, because of its outside frames. The early Lima version had the rods held on with small screws, which meant you could add outside cylinders and connecting rods quite easily. However, the large pancake motor meant big side tanks were necessary to hide it, but with freelancing anything goes! The later version by Hornby was even better. Remember buying one of the first and then sawing up the body and adding a new, wider footplate, to make a neat little diesel shunter which ran superbly. There's an article in RM somewhere, but will need to go through my photos as all this was in the pre-digital age. Sigh...

 Great sounding project and will certainly look forward to seeing progress. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by David Holman

[J-Mo Arts]

It is very quarry Hunslet, isn't it! I think I'm going to take the saddle tank and smoke box shape from Jerry M, a larger Dinorwic Hunslet of similar proportions

[Killian Keane]

So that'll be the same class as Bruckless/Skylark which was the contractors loco for the Donegal-Killybegs section of the CDR

[Mayner]

On 20/10/2021 at 8:21 PM, J-Mo Arts said:

Thanks everyone for the positive words. I won't give up this project just yet, but I will give it a few days rest to clear my head and start again 

Thanks for the advice Mayner Do you happen to have a picture of the 0-4-2 version? I can't seem to find one on the Internet and it sounds interesting as another, future project

There were 3 Black Hawthorn 0-4-2Ts built for the Ballymena-Parkmore-Retreat line which became NCC 101-103, 102 & 103 had their saddle tank extended to the front of the smokebox as in the photo.

Two were loaned to the Cavan & Leitrim to work coal trains in 1920 but later returned to the NCC and scrapped so I just have to have one!

[Galteemore]

The extended tank was very distinctive. IIRC the Cavan men loved the ‘wee Northerners’ and essentially worked the guts out of them. An intriguing ‘might have been’ had they lasted until GSR/CIE days. Would also be interesting to see how the NCC 2-4-2Ts would have acquitted themselves amongst the drumlins.

[J-Mo Arts]

2 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

So that'll be the same class as Bruckless/Skylark which was the contractors loco for the Donegal-Killybegs section of the CDR

Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea there was such a loco already on a railway I like as much as the Donegal! From a glance, it seems that the cab, cylinder cladding, injectors and possibly the handrails are different, bits I haven't yet thought about designing so I'll adapt them to be more like this one! I will probably make it as an open cab to represent a (probably incorrect, any photos of it around 1892-94 would be appreciated) more early iteration of the loco as Bruckless for its time with the CDR- that cab looks to me like a later addition.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mayner said:

There were 3 Black Hawthorn 0-4-2Ts built for the Ballymena-Parkmore-Retreat line which became NCC 101-103, 102 & 103 had their saddle tank extended to the front of the smokebox as in the photo.

Two were loaned to the Cavan & Leitrim to work coal trains in 1920 but later returned to the NCC and scrapped so I just have to have one!

Thanks for the picture, I'll admit that extended tank is quite odd having stared at the Ballycastle lot for so long! However I may well add that to the rapidly growing projects-to-do list. 

 

Thanks for reading

Edited October 31, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[Killian Keane]

2 hours ago, J-Mo Arts said:

Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea there was such a loco already on a railway I like as much as the Donegal! From a glance, it seems that the cab, cylinder cladding, injectors and possibly the handrails are different, bits I haven't yet thought about designing so I'll adapt them to be more like this one! I will probably make it as an open cab to represent a (probably incorrect, any photos of it around 1892-94 would be appreciated) more early iteration of the loco as Bruckless for its time with the CDR- that cab looks to me like a later addition.

 

 

Thanks for the picture, I'll admit that extended tank is quite odd having stared at the Ballycastle lot for so long! However I may well add that to the rapidly growing projects-to-do list. 

 

Thanks for reading

This is the only photo Ive seen of the engine in its Donegal condition, the timber cab surely being an addition so I'd agree it'd have been open originally, what the hosepipe is for I have no idea

Edited November 1, 2021 by Killian Keane

[J-Mo Arts]

5 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

This is the only photo Ive seen of the engine in its Donegal condition, the timber cab surely being an addition so I'd agree it'd have been open originally, what the hosepipe is for I have no idea

That's very useful indeed, thanks a lot! Perhaps the hosepipe, like that on the Baldwin 10-12-D, is for taking on water from nearby streams and puddles? 

Edited November 1, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[J-Mo Arts]

Current state of affairs:

[Galteemore]

The quarry Hunslet roots are very clear! Looking good.

[J-Mo Arts]

Hi guys, 

I have a spare, out-of-action hornby jinty 0-6-0 chassis and wanted to make a GNR(I) tender engine to fit it as it's a smooth roller but unfortunately a worn gear means the motor (since removed for my CDR class 3) can't mesh. I'd probably be 3d printing a tender body to fit an old hornby tender drive unit, hence GNR(I) as the locos I've seen have pretty big tenders across most periods. I'd be happy to change that for something that better suits the chassis though. 

 

Measurements:

19.5mm (almost 5' scale) wheel diameter

65.5mm (almost 16'5 scale) wheelbase

 

If anyone has any suggestions or even drawings they could share, I'll add this project to the ever growing list! 

 

Thanks

[Galteemore]

UG is 5’1 drivers and a wheelbase of 15’ 7”. SG/SG3 had 5’1 drivers and wheelbase of 16’11”. E class is 5’ drivers and wheelbase of 15’. The E class are quite sweet little things

Edited November 3, 2021 by Galteemore

[J-Mo Arts]

19 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

UG is 5’1 drivers and a wheelbase of 15’ 7”. SG/SG3 had 5’1 drivers and wheelbase of 16’11”. E class is 5’ drivers and wheelbase of 15’. The E class are quite sweet little things

Thanks! I think I may go for the SG class as it's the closest in dimensions but that E is very cute. Would the livery be black for these? 

[Galteemore]

Indeed it would in that condition, which is her later state. Think she may have been green originally - and named. SGs are rather nice too. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

The green livery was gone by about 1913, I believe. Black, either lined or unlined (depending on loco type) for some 20 years after that until the blue started appearing in 1932.

[Galteemore]

Black livery was revised in 1934, giving way to first blue locos in 1936.  

[J-Mo Arts]

Quick question, was the lettering of GN and GNR on the blue and black liveries respectively the same font? As far as I can see they're both gold with red 'shadows' 

[Galteemore]

For black engines, yes it’s gold and red. For blue engines, I think it’s gold and black. I found these in Fox recently which look ballpark  for black engines.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Galteemore

[J-Mo Arts]

8 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

For black engines, yes it’s gold and red. For blue engines, I think it’s gold and black. I found these in Fox recently which look ballpark  for black engines.

Thanks Galteemore, if that's the right font I may well go for them. I also may be able to commission a sheet of transfers which would potentially be more useful as I can ask for a few of specific heights and styles for various projects all on the one sheet, but we shall see. I have to finish that 21mm gauge Hunslet first! 

[J-Mo Arts]

I may have found something else to make with my Triang TT chassis:

I think this may be an effort to make T&D No7, which looks similar in the one photo I've seen of it, however on this model the boiler is higher up to accommodate for the chassis. Does anyone know how wide this model should be?

[Galteemore]

7’ is what I have off Peter Halton’s 1996 drawing 

[J-Mo Arts]

Progress with the Donegal contractors hunslet:

I have no idea if the safety valve cover thing is right but as I can't find any pictures of it, and in Killian's photo something pokes out of the top of the wooden cab alongside the whistle, I thought this was a fair assumption. The height from cab floor to top of the safety valve is 41mm (5'10") which sounds about right to me given the average height of people back in those days. 

[J-Mo Arts]

Very little to present this past week, I did a bit of work on the front of the smokebox and started gauging the size and placement of the dumb buffers on the Donegal loco:

I have also won an auction for an Adams Radial tank so have a chassis for the project I mentioned first on this thread, the BCDR 4-4-2s from Beyer Peacock. While waiting for it to arrive, I edited an Adams Radial drawing to show what might become of the body shell:

This is more to show the general look of the loco, as the real one will probably have longer tanks to give both driving wheels the splashers in the running plate and a few other changes. It'd use the cylinders and motion from the Radial and a Toy Story 4-4-0 chassis

 

Thanks for reading

Edited November 22, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[Galteemore]

That’s very nice. A little reminiscent of the SLNC 4-4-0T ‘Erne’. Change the chimney, tweak the cab and it’s very reminiscent! 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Galteemore

[Westcorkrailway]

11 minutes ago, J-Mo Arts said:

 

I have also won an auction for an Adams Radial tank so have a chassis for the project I mentioned first on this thread, the BCDR 4-4-2s from Beyer Peacock. While waiting for it to arrive, I edited an Adams Radial drawing to show what might become of the body shell:

This is more to show the general look of the loco, as the real one will probably have longer tanks to give both driving wheels the splashers in the running plate and a few other changes. It'd use the cylinders and motion from the Radial and a Toy Story 4-4-0 chassis

 

Thanks for reading

It may be worth looking at my workbench, I’ve been at the same thing 

[J-Mo Arts]

4 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

It may be worth looking at my workbench, I’ve been at the same thing 

That looks brilliant! I think I've seen the painted example on a blog post elsewhere, it's a fine job. I think I'm going to go with 3d printing a body with measurements I had the fortune of taking in the summer in Cultra, but it is very interesting to see how much of the loco can be captured with some new tanks! 

14 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

That’s very nice. A little reminiscent of the SLNC 4-4-0T ‘Erne’. Change the chimney, tweak the cab and it’s very reminiscent! 

Are there any photos of that knocking about? Chimney and cab are both 3d-printable, although mine has the later chimney version already:

 

[Galteemore]

I’ll PM you as pics are problematic …

[Andy Cundick]

On 1/11/2021 at 2:08 AM, Killian Keane said:

This is the only photo Ive seen of the engine in its Donegal condition, the timber cab surely being an addition so I'd agree it'd have been open originally, what the hosepipe is for I have no idea

The  hosepipe is attached  to a waterlifter which works the same way as an injector the steamfeed is the pipe coming out of the front of the cab with the lifter attached to the top of the saddletank ,they're pretty much standard fittings on traction engines and steam rollers,had quite a lot of practise with them when i had a roller,Andy.

[Killian Keane]

5 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

The  hosepipe is attached  to a waterlifter which works the same way as an injector the steamfeed is the pipe coming out of the front of the cab with the lifter attached to the top of the saddletank ,they're pretty much standard fittings on traction engines and steam rollers,had quite a lot of practise with them when i had a roller,Andy.

Aaaah yes of course, Im familiar with such things being used on traction engines but rarely does one see it on a locomotive, I believe the WW1 Baldwin engines were fitted up with them come to think of it

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, J-Mo Arts said:

Very little to present this past week, I did a bit of work on the front of the smokebox and started gauging the size and placement of the dumb buffers on the Donegal loco:

 

I have also won an auction for an Adams Radial tank so have a chassis for the project I mentioned first on this thread, the BCDR 4-4-2s from Beyer Peacock. While waiting for it to arrive, I edited an Adams Radial drawing to show what might become of the body shell:

This is more to show the general look of the loco, as the real one will probably have longer tanks to give both driving wheels the splashers in the running plate and a few other changes. It'd use the cylinders and motion from the Radial and a Toy Story 4-4-0 chassis

 

Thanks for reading

A bit like a more modern elegant version of the Dutch style engines designed by William Adams (who else) for  the North London Railway in 1868. https://picclick.co.uk/North-London-Railway-Adams-4-4-0T-Tank-Locomotive-164702035379.html

[David Holman]

9 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

The  hosepipe is attached  to a waterlifter which works the same way as an injector the steamfeed is the pipe coming out of the front of the cab with the lifter attached to the top of the saddletank ,they're pretty much standard fittings on traction engines and steam rollers,had quite a lot of practise with them when i had a roller,Andy.

 "When I had a roller". Now there's a good throwaway line! Love it - and not surprised.

[J-Mo Arts]

Fixed the tanks and running plate on the design:

While I was at it, I modified the cab to look more like a BCDR style cab, and I'll have a go at a more SLNCR one at some point too:

I quite like the 4-4-0 Galteemore mentioned, but the a freelance BCDR one would mean I can run it with the same trains as my 0-4-2 and the proper 4-4-2! That seems the most sensible thing to do.

 

Open to more comments/suggestions!