GNRi1959 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I am considering sending a layout drawing to Peco Technical Advice for wiring advice but wondered if there was anyone on the forum who is equally familiar with the wiring expertise, who would be willing to help. I have a drawing with all Peco points shown. Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Hi Tony, Fire away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Hi Tony, Fire away! Very Kind of you BosKonay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I am considering sending a layout drawing to Peco Technical Advice for wiring advice but wondered if there was anyone on the forum who is equally familiar with the wiring expertise, who would be willing to help. I have a drawing with all Peco points shown. Any takers? You'll be waiting on a response from Peco! They are quite bad at responding to enquiries. What particular area do you need help on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Dave, since I have used electro-frog points throughout I just have no experience of wiring. I want to get it right before I fix track to my baseboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Dave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Dave, since I have used electro-frog points throughout I just have no experience of wiring. I want to get it right before I fix track to my baseboard. You'll don't need to modify an electrofrog point they work just fine straight out of the box, just fit insulated rail joiners on the vee of the point to stop any short circuits as the vee switches polarity as it switches. The only real need to modify an electrofrog point is if your weathering and painting the track, this way you need to fit an auxiliary switch to the point motor and isolate the vee from the rest of the point and the switch powers the vee and the blades therefore you are no longer relying on the blades bringing power up the point into the vee. On the majority of layouts that I build I leave the electrofrog points as they are and they work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hi Tony, Looks good - are there any particular areas in the plan you're not sure on? otherwise, simply connect droppers to the rails in every area where there is regular track, use insulated rail joiners on every connection on every point, and then power the points directly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Hi Tony, Looks good - are there any particular areas in the plan you're not sure on? otherwise, simply connect droppers to the rails in every area where there is regular track, use insulated rail joiners on every connection on every point, and then power the points directly Do I simply isolate the points at every cross-over and wire all points independently? What do you mean by 'droppers'? Edited January 4, 2017 by TonyMcGartland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Do I simply isolate the points at every cross-over and wire all points independently? What do you mean by 'droppers'? A dropper is a wire from each rail down through the baseboard, to allow connections to be made 'out-of-the-way'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Broithe, thanks for that - simple explanation. Now this may sound stupid but I have a Gaugemaster Twin controller. Is this sufficient to run this layout considering I will be operating two engines max at a time - one on a continuous timed shuttle and another for manual shunting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Broithe, thanks for that - simple explanation. Now this may sound stupid but I have a Gaugemaster Twin controller. Is this sufficient to run this layout considering I will be operating two engines max at a time - one on a continuous timed shuttle and another for manual shunting? I am confident that you should have no trouble from the Gaugemaster. Just avoid running huge quantities of lighting from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Is it possible to bring the cables from various positions on the track (mainline, paintwork and sidings) to ONE terminal on my control. Would I use a junction box, or series of switches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If you're running two engines at the same time, you should have a means of separating the circuits and using one of the controllers for each one - the Model D has two track outputs at the rear - one for each control knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 jhb171achill Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I simply could never get my head round wiring electrofrog points. The old way was simple. years ago, for the last layout I had which was in planning stage about 1983, I sent a diagram to Peco and they replied promptly. Maybe they're not the same nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 I think I have the problem solved! I've just spent a couple of hundred quid on points and track so I want to wire it correctly the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 PJR Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Well worth a read before starting http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It's often feasible to lay the track, wired-up, loosely on the bare baseboard - and test it out with all plausible scenarios, before 'hiding' the wiring underneath. When you're happy with it, the track can be fixed and the droppers dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DiveController Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Are you using point motors or switching by hand, presume DCC? Lots on YouTube and the WWW, some unnecessarily complicated (which it isn't) The basics if you don't have a book http://www.dccwiki.com/Wiring_Turnouts Agree with PJR, that's a good resource Personally I would run a main bus wire under the track work with droppers as suggested above. If using point motors I would isolate the frog so that the entire frog changes polarity when the normal or diverging route is selected. If not, tracks of opposite polarity are in close proximity at the frog, and metal wheels sometimes make contact with both shorting out the layout which is irritating. It also avoids relying on a small contact area at the switch blades being the only real source of electrical current to the frog especially in sidings and crossovers. Just two cents Edited January 4, 2017 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Junctionmad Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Hi Tony , I attach a first pass , thi sis based on the most minimal requirements that you are happy to have sidings /terminating tracks dead, when the point switches away from that road . Its not necessary to isolate ALL frogs in electro points , merely the ones where a back feed from another supply could occur note that this diagram contains minimal droppers, only those electrically necessary , you may add additional ones to either ( a) power up sections that are dead when the point is switched away or (b) where you dont want to rely on fishplates for continuity . In (b) this is just parallel wiring to the track but every time you go " through " a point with a dropper, it needs to be insulated Again if you want two independent controllers, you'll have to implement section switching , for that the first thing to decide is if you want each controller to access all track of the other, or are you prepared to dedicate a controller to an area, the first adds a lot of section switches, the second less so DCC is much easier to wire ! note again , om my diagram below, there is a single controller and no additional switches , the frog " steer " the power to the selected roads [ATTACH=CONFIG]26445[/ATTACH Edited January 5, 2017 by Junctionmad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Noel Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hi Tony , I attach a first pass , thi sis based on the most minimal requirements that you are happy to have sidings /terminating tracks dead, when the point switches away from that road . Its not necessary to isolate ALL frogs in electro points , merely the ones where a back feed from another supply could occur note that this diagram contains minimal droppers, only those electrically necessary , you may add additional ones to either ( a) power up sections that are dead when the point is switched away or (b) where you dont want to rely on fishplates for continuity . In (b) this is just parallel wiring to the track but every time you go " through " a point with a dropper, it needs to be insulated Again if you want two independent controllers, you'll have to implement section switching , for that the first thing to decide is if you want each controller to access all track of the other, or are you prepared to dedicate a controller to an area, the first adds a lot of section switches, the second less so DCC is much easier to wire ! note again , om my diagram below, there is a single controller and no additional switches , the frog " steer " the power to the selected roads [ATTACH=CONFIG]26445[/ATTACH Nice one JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Broithe, can I ask what paint you used to achieve this rust effect on the rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Broithe, can I ask what paint you used to achieve this rust effect on the rail? Oooh, not my picture, I'm afraid - just one that illustrates the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Are Peco PL-80 Powered Joiners a waste of money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 My baseboard measures 2metres x 500mm and sits nicely on a trestle style table of similar size. During the construction phase I didn't really think about where I would place my controls. I have a Gaugemaster Dual Control, a super controller and three DPDT switches to consider. Should I mount them on a hanging bracket and shelf under the table, otherwise it will look out of place on the baseboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Are Peco PL-80 Powered Joiners a waste of money? Droppers soldered to each rail would be more secure, long term. The rail joiners still rely on a 'frictional' connection to the rails, which can cause resistance issues over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Here is my plan, hopefully someone can tell me if I am correct in doing this. I intend wiring my layout below surface next week. The plan is to soldier the cables to the track and drop them through the baseboard where they were go via block connectors to three separate DPDT switches. I intend recessing the DPDT switches into an panel of black perspex and mounting this on the top of my baseboard in a place where I hope to operate the layout from.My gauge master twin controller will sit below the baseboard tables in a small shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Here is my plan, hopefully someone can tell me if I am correct in doing this. I intend wiring my layout below surface next week. The plan is to soldier the cables to the track and drop them through the baseboard where they were go via block connectors to three separate DPDT switches. I intend recessing the DPDT switches into an panel of black perspex and mounting this on the top of my baseboard in a place where I hope to operate the layout from.My gauge master twin controller will sit below the baseboard tables in a small shelf. Is it worth having the controller on a sort of slide-out shelf? So that it can be accessible when in use, but out of the way when you're working on the layout, etc. I did that once and I'm sure that we would have found the controller in the way, when it wasn't in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Good point, to be honest the Gaugemaster Twin is a bit of a beast of a controller. I bought it new for £50 which was a real bargain, otherwise I would have shopped around for something more compact. Anyway, I'm planning on doing the wiring this weekend hopefully and will look at that too, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It's a lump, but it will work for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Silly question, when wiring a layout do I bore holes for 'droppers' and feed the cable from under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Garfield Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Silly question, when wiring a layout do I bore holes for 'droppers' and feed the cable from under? Correct. Here's a video which helps explain: If you want the wires to be less intrusive, I've seen guys tin the wires with solder and place them on the underside of the rail while touching the top of the rail with the iron. I'd experiment on a spare piece of track first, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Very Kind of you BosKonay! [ATTACH=CONFIG]26406[/ATTACH] Any advice on where to place three DPDT switches on this layout. Baseboard top or edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Broithe Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Just consider where they might be "in the way" later on. If you do do the drawer thing for the controller, then they could even be on there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GNRi1959 Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 I've been trying most of the afternoon to solder droppers to my Peco track with no success really, very messy with hit and miss results. Never was able to do it, any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kirley Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Make sure you clean the rails where you are going to solder, a fibreglass pencil will do the job. Tin the wires beforehand, a drop of flux on the rail, tiny piece of solder on the iron, place the wire against the rail, touch the wire with the iron, remove the heat but hold the wire in place for 5 secs, job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Make sure you clean the rails where you are going to solder, a fibreglass pencil will do the job. Tin the wires beforehand, a drop of flux on the rail, tiny piece of solder on the iron, place the wire against the rail, touch the wire with the iron, remove the heat but hold the wire in place for 5 secs, job done. Using that exact method, here's a (poor) shot of how I connected the droppers on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Question
GNRi1959
I am considering sending a layout drawing to Peco Technical Advice for wiring advice but wondered if there was anyone on the forum who is equally familiar with the wiring expertise, who would be willing to help.
I have a drawing with all Peco points shown.
Any takers?
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