jhb171achill

It won't be "Maedb", anyway.........

As the late, great Baldrick might have said "there's a cunning plan!"

There ye go! So, you've a genuine black prototype. Does it have a "snail"? Tenders got swopped..... If it is black in 1961, it could even have had it several years - 2 or 3 anyway. That one remained until the end of steam in February / March '63, when it would have been formally withdrawn. It will certainly not have been painted after 1961, so it will have had perhaps five or six years in black, in traffic. Excellent find!

Absolutely beautiful model - very well done as always! In terms of colour, what you've put on the smokebox does look about right. I had a look in my records to see if there's any mention of a J19 gaining the black in the last few years - as you know, SOME CIE engines did. It seems that ONE J18 was repainted black very late on. I don't know yet which one, but it had just the pale yellow number on the cabside - I don't think it had a "snail" on the tender (or anything!). But I haven't found any J19. I will delve and see if I can find one in actual black. One of the last steam engines painted, in Cork in 1962, was a J15 which had the normal grey, but uniquely with a black smokebox. Not a good choice for a widespread livery, as it did that winter's beet, and was withdrawn nine months after being painted!

Bat-crazy!

Exactly. And wait until you see what it is!

Might as well add, I will be meeting IRM at Malahide tomorrow with a matching gubbins which highly accurately matches liveries. The purpose will be to assess CIE green (for one of the IRM "A"s). Of Fry's other models, many have absolutely authentic paint colours and these will be assessed too. Among them is the rare GSR green, which was only ever applied to the trio of 800s, as well as coach livery colours for CIE, GSWR, MGWR (the short-lived blue and white, and the post-1918 maroon, but not the brown used on the vast, vast majority of their stock), NCC maroon, Cavan & Leitrim, Clogher Valley, Donegal, Lough Swilly loco green, BCDR loco green, and a good few others. I will post details in due course. In the fullness of time, once the lockdown is over fully, and B & Bs and pubs are open, I will arrange for further authentic colours to be assessed in Downpatrick and Enniskillen.

Wow!!! Superb!!

Folks I’m putting this up on behalf of a friend. Does anyone have the RAL number for the grey currently used on 071s?

Indeed - and in larger scales it’s relevant to modellers, as seat styles and colours are more visible (e.g. O gauge)....

Ah! Fair enough - was just interested. Lovely vehicles, very comfortable. Hard to think what the most comfortable carriages are today...... the better seats in the NIR 4000s aren't bad. Off topic, but the most comfortable things I ever travelled on, within Ireland, were the ex-GN / UTA AEC railcars' 1st class, one old NCC coach which ended its life as a railcar intermediate, but still with old NCC wooden varnished seat frames (UTA 526, I think; Lambegman will know), and the De Dietrichs. Some of the UTA / NIR "70" class centre and trailer cars were also pretty comfortable. The 80 class were awful. By FAR the worst ever, comfort wise, were the truly ghastly UTA MEDs and NIR 450 "castles". Awful things to travel in. The DARTs and 2600s aren't far behind. OK; back to topic - I digress.

So an entirely separate design? I had assumed that it might have been the same body shell but just different shaped windows.....no?

Carriages after 1970 are not my area of knowledge, by any means, so a question. If someone wanted to make a set of the “Galway” International set, with the larger windows (as opposed to “Galway” liveries Mk 2’s), does anyone make coaches suitable for repainting? Just out of interest.....

While not normally my “era”, that whole layout just exudes atmosphere; superbly well done! It’s a good advertisement also for the wares of IRM & Mr Murphy (may their names be praised)!

Ah! They didn't invite me.........

Can I have a pint of Guinness? Please?

This route was normally, for decades, the REGULAR preserve of almost solely 141s, but as Noel says, occasional visits of C, B101, A and even 071 classes were known. In case of an eventual layout extension, I have four black'n'tan 141s, and may get another, to represent this type of route (Mallow - Waterford would probably have ended up the same had it survived). Naturally, a layout based on Gort might have, for realism, a sprinkler above it - permanently on! The first time I ever travelled through this station was '75 or '76 and it was a beautiful bright day, albeit with a nippy enough wind. Every other time since, it's been lashing!

Superb looking yoke. No handrails along the side - that's the way they were delivered; these were only added during the "black'n'tan" period, thus it is possible to have a black'n'tan one with or without handrails. Silver was used 1955-58 on new A, B101, G601, E401 and C classes; the B121s were a light grey rather than silver. Here's a thought. Next person to have a pint with Jim Meade, suggest amending an existing 071 with "snails" and yellow bits! Indeed - I wonder when they were removed from there? I never remember seeing them in real life on black & tan ones either.

Sadly, they're of no use to Whitehead or Downpatrick. The carriage - if there's anything left of it, is way, way past restoration; a total rebuild would be necessary. It was borderline restorable the last time I saw it which was the best part of thirty years ago.

Looks like it will eliminate it entirely! How on earth are they to attract people to use the railway if they have nowhere to park? It's not as if Dublin has half-sensible public transport! Overpriced buses take the longest and slowest route to get from anywhere to anywhere, in order to serve every boreen. I only use buses as an absolute last option - and I'm PRO-public transport!

‘Tis a cunning plot, I tell ye!

John’s additions would have been perfect - but Leslie’s Provincial Wagons are perfect for the era, as are a few repaints of certain types of British wagons (ONLY a few of them!) and the early grey cement bubbles from IRM Towers. SSM kits of the era too. Worsley, Silverfox, Murphy, IFM & SSM all provide various kits and RTR carriages. .....and one pot of grey paint does the lot! Go past 1970, and while the “snails” and steam engines are long gone, repainted brown wagons start to appear.....

I’ve imagined that many a time, Patrick! Senior mentioned a trip one time on the footplate in absolutely lashing, torrential rain - and she held her feet ok. On that subject, he also did the Barnesmore Gap in heavy rain on a 5A with the goods. I can only imagine attacking the Barnesmore Gap with wet rails, bad Donegal weather, and 40 loose-coupled laden trucks on the back......

The blue used by NIR was actually quite different to BR blue, but they could indeed have done a "hybrid"! Correct. It was a cream or very light grey colour, if I remember rightly, with either very dark grey or black, and red. That is indeed my understanding too. Just those ones. There's an earlier precedent. In the 1940s, when the NCC brought in a number of scrappers from the LMS to replace bombed stock in the wartime attacks on York Road carriage sidings, the livery of the day was unlined maroon, which most got straight away before entering traffic. Just maroon, with the number and "L M S N C C". However, a few went into traffic in full LMS livery, at least one with just the new NCC number roughly hand-painted over the LMS number! Naturally, full NCC livery, then UTA green, would follow.

In reality, axle load is unlikely to be that much of a problem today, but her height would be the issue. She's not in too bad mechanical condition, and though a new boiler might be necessary, it's not cracked. The chassis is OK. However, even if (by steam restoration terms) a minimum of work would be necessary, where it would be done, by whom, how long it would take and where the cash would come from - THAT is the REAL issue. It would almost certainly have to go to England. It wouldn't fit in Whitehead. Realistically, it is quite beyond the ability of any preservation group in Ireland at this time, and if done in Ireland, could only be done in Inchicore, with specialist people brought in for the duration of the project. Several years and a few million would pass before a fire was lit in her. Providing bridge and electric wires clearances were deemed OK, she could probably do Dublin - Cork and Dublin - Drogheda; but these issues probably would NOT be OK. If she was restored to full working order by a magic fairy overnight, and presented to the RPSI in the morning, she would be a Treasurer's nightmare, given her likely appetite for coal. While for her size she was very efficient and comparatively economical, she's still a big loco. When I was RPSI Treasurer, I used to groan at Operations meetings when someone suggested that a forthcoming train was to be hauled by 85 instead of 171; the bigger compound had very significantly higher coal bills. Maedb would be worse, and of little use. Then there is the issue that she is the property of a state-owned museum in the north. With the north now out of the EU, it is possible that a loan agreement for the loco to go to operate in a separate political jurisdiction within the EU, would take ages to get ready. When I was involved in the enquiries into getting Dunluce Castle out of Cultra about 20 years ago for main line restoration, the outline legal agreement took almost two years to get ready. Meanwhile, the very generous RPSI member who had offered to fund the whole thing had fallen upon ill health and was no longer in a position to do so. "Maedb" would do her ten year ticket, probably having at most half a dozen outings a year, and then go back into Cultra. What treasurer could justify allocating a budget for a mid-term overhaul for a beast like this? As always, cold hard practicalities must carry the day; not impractical enthusiast dreams and emotions - mine included! An SSM kit is the only show in town. Several of our readers here have very fine models of them, as have I.