jhb171achill

Any thoughts on production, folks?

Wire brush, yes, then decent black undercoat. Finish is correctly black with white lettering for GSWR, and most GNR. In GNR(B) days, some were white with red lettering, and station and lamp nameboards were yellow with black lettering. I actually had a very large collection of all sorts of signs years ago, but unfortunately had to sell them.

Wowww! drool worthy....!

Hard to see from the google image - have you inspected it close up? Looks early GN to me but I haven't seen it close up.

Thanks to some research by 00 Works, and comparison with what as far as I'm aware is the only surviving sample of original paint, the correct shade of grey has finally been identified / matched. My understanding is that Roderick will be able to supply it for anyone modelling steam.

Certainly is. There's another, more complete, near Banbridge on the main AI road in a field up on the right when travelling north. It's been there for fifty five years at least.

That's an absolute beauty of a layout. I like the realistic ground cover and backscenes especially.

Finally - a correct paint match for GSR / CIE locomotive grey Thanks mainly to Roderick of 00 Works, I think we can now be sure of the closest match to what as far as I am aware, is the only surviving original sample (from about 1925 or so) of the loco grey introduced by the GSWR about 1915/8 and continued through GSR days and into CIE, right to the end of steam days in 1963. A remarkable 45 years in use, more or less equalled by CIE's various variations or orange and black 1962-2006. The model, as many will know, was built in early GSR days (and is "0" coarse scale). The paint on it is original. Roderick sent me numerous samples of greys blended from this and that. The piece of plastic seen here against the model has been sprayed with what seems the closest match, and as you can see, it matches in daylight, artificial light, and half-and-half. Presumably Roderick will now be in a position to sell this paint to anyone who wants to paint a GSR / CIE model. Naturally, upside-down reproduction of images is a necessity.....! I understand that this will be used as a model for the eagerly-awaited RTR J15. I have been trying to find, for ages, the list I got from Bob Clements years and years ago of what classes of locomotive received all-black paint in the 1955-62 period. I just can't find it! Most remained grey, as we all know, but some got lined green or black.

To go back to the original topic, I am advised that due to the three layers of heading etc., it’s not as easy to do MGWR stuff as brass “scratch-aid” kits. Thus, it seems they could be exceptionally fiddly to produce and / or make. Currently on hold, but not forgotten about!

There would be major surgery required. In theory, a loco like this could be rebuilt to resemble (even vaguely) several GNR or CIE prototypes, though in this case the amount of work needed would just as easily be done as a new-build,

Bono? So there’s one for me and U2?

I didn't know that BR still used them that late. I think - but can't be sure - that the GNR(I) was the last to use them here, and that their practices ended some time between 1919 and the mid 1920s. Edenderry lost its passenger service very early, yes, 1931 I believe. It would seem that towards that date, slip working had ceased there. I didn't know that the "oul crate" had been a slip coach - interesting. So: quiz question: where else in Ireland were they used? The GNR used one on the up Belfast - Dublin (I think it was brake tri-compo No. 19) and it was slipped approaching Amiens Street so that it could cruise downhill into the LNWR North Wall terminal.

The speed van would look better being driven at speed itself - over the Cliffs of Moher!

Oooooh goody goody goody! Hope I can be there!

Former MGWR six-wheeled stock were to be seen in locations as diverse as West Cork, the Harcourt Street and Bray - Amiens St lines, every corner of the Midland, even in Enniskillen when borrowed by the SLNCR! In the 1910s, six or more spent a number of years on loan to the BCDR and would have covered all that system. The Sligo - Limerick - Tralee lines saw them too, as did the Foynes branch. I am quite sure that they were to be seen at many GSWR locations, even the main line. At least one went over the the Waterford & Tramore, I think. The last use of them, in summer 1963, was on the Cork - Youghal and Cobh lines. An IRRS excursion over to Albert Quay used one in early 1964. It was already officially withdrawn, and this trip marked the last passenger journey by a six-wheeled coach, as well as the last passenger working across the Cork City Railway and into Albert Quay. Wish I'd been on it - at my age, I would have clearly remembered it.........!

That oul crate of a thing they had on the Foynes branch in its last days was a MGWR brake 3rd.... Drawings sent to Worsley Works today. I still have to photocopy one and send it too. Allen is all ready to go once I get him whatever stuff I can.

That is an absolute work of art - very impressive.

VERY nice.

Seeing single "bubbles" in a goods train back in the day was commonplace. Seeing a uniform rake of ANYTHING was exceptional. I made a note once only, of a goods passing Lisburn northbound. It must have been about 1970. I can't find it now, but what I do recall is that it was mostly "H" vans and Bullied opens, a few vans, then maybe one open, then another couple of vans etc... and strung through this lot were Lancashire Flats with Guinness and THREE bubbles. There were 34 wagons in all, including - if I recall correctly - two brake vans, one at each end. I suspect the leading one was travelling "light". This was absolutely the norm. Block trains of a single type of wagon only became the norm after about 1975, when goods facilities nationwide were severely rationalised. The same with passenger trains. Someone asked me recently what sort of rakes Cravens first appeared in, and was surprised to learn that almost never did you get a train of Cravens only - in fact, with no Cravens being firsts or dining cars, and most main line services still offering two classes and many also having catering, a train of Cravens only was something that personally I NEVER saw, not once. Laminates of the various types, Park Royals, and the last few Bredins were all a common fleet with them, and a typical main line train was maybe three Cravens, two Laminate standard, a Park Royal, a laminate-like dining car*, and a genny van. (* None of the "laminate" dining cars were actually constructed with laminated frames, so technically they weren't "laminates". They had solid frames. The DESIGN was similar, though, of course.)

Any photos of Little Siddington?

Further wanderings; Railcars - Allen Doherty's Worsley Works make a range of "scratch-aid" kits including the AEC and BUT cars (plus MED types as seen on the Larne and Bangor lines). A certain level of skill is required for these, and you need to get your own chassis, motors, etc. One of his K15 coach kits would make a suitable intermediate too. On the ex-GNR section, the UTA and NIR almost always ran railcar sets in three-coach formations, sometimes four. I never saw a two-car set on the GN. Allen also does the 70 class sets. These were only on the main line. They arrived two years after the "Derry Road" closed - a pity, as a run in one over that live would have been amazing. 70s never got into Warrenpoint either, as it too was closed when they arrived. But if you're doing the main line too.... 70s were never green; they arrived in what would eventually become similar to NIR livery. The initial red / maroon was (I think) slightly lighter on 70s when new.

Just a few more random wanderings of thought...... Warrenpoint would make an excellent prototype. With tracks all parallel, Mills architecture and an overall roof, it would be a gem. Stock for the branch in your era was inevitably AEC railcars or one of the Gardner articulated ones - that would make a very unique model but you'd have to scratchbuild it. Excursions were where the interest arose - you'll need two or three of the 00 Works U or UG types. The UTA often used ex-GNR 0.6.0s on the branch, but a U or S or towards the end an NCC "Jeep" were occasionally to be seen. carriages here would have to be ex-GNR types, mostly wooden bodied. This, unfortunately, will require scratchbuilding. What the modelling world is really crying out for is a RTR AEC railcar set. This can be used in GNR, CIE, UTA and NIR guises. The types bought by both CIE and the GNR in the early 1950s would become almost as standard on many routes as the comparatively dull ICRs and CAFs are today. CIE's ended up as Dublin area push-pulls. The GNR ones were split between CIE and the UTA; the share which went to the latter ending up in NIR's maroon and light grey. To add colour to a Warrenpoint layout, or any GNR area layout in UTA days (1958-68), you've some interesting livery variations. The GNR's navy blue (NOT modern "Craven blue") and cream didn't just all disappear on 1st October 1958. Some GNR cars would have their GNR markings painted out and a UTA roundel put on instead, with UTA-style numerals. Some would get the yellow and black end wasp stripes while still in GNR navy and cream. The UTA initially painted their cars all green, front end included; but very quickly (I think from 1962) the wasp stripes were added. While this didn't apply to the AEC or BUT cars, some railcars had white on the front of the cab above the wasp stripes. If you do any NCC area railcars, this can apply to them. An interesting detail in UTA green livery is that loco-hauled stock had a straw line at waist level, like on 728 at Downpatrick. This was edged in red on both sides. Tiny traces of this line can be seen on one end of the ex-Golfer's Saloon at Downpatrick in the carriage Gallery. Railcars, however, and railcar intermediates, did not have this waist line. Goods into Warrenpoint was generally in the hands of D or U class 0.6.0s. You can safely say that about a quarter of the stock would be CIE; especially the standard "H" vans; check out Leslie McAllister's Provincial Wagons range. Bread containers on flats would also be common, especially the red Inglis ones. Goods brake vans were inevitably of ex-GNR style. Don't model them on "Ivan" as fantastic though its restoration is, the livery is utterly inaccurate. Plain grey all over - roof, sides, inside balconies, ironwork, the lot. However - one convenient thing is that in your era the N I Government had already decided that there was no future at all in the railways, especially rail freight, so no new rolling stock was built, and the remaining ex-GN and NCC stock in use became more and more dishevelled. As a result, the livery is nothing more or less than extremely heavy weathering over varying shades of grey - not varying on account of being painted differently, but on account of being extremely work-worn. On many vans and open wagons, replacement planks just weren't painted at all. Guard's vans - very heavily weathered and the chassis on everything non-passenger just a nondescript brown brake dust coating. The GNR, NCC and UTA didn't paint all their wagons plain grey like the GSR or CIE did. The GNR painted fitted vans brown (all over). Forget about these white roofs you see on some models; none were ever thus in reality. While (post-1970) CIE brown wagons were brown all over, roof included, I am almost certain that brown GNR vans had grey roofs. No open wagons were brown. The NCC, however, painted the wagons used for the Courtaulds coal traffic in a brownish red colour, with black chassis. Some of these would have appeared the odd time as far south as Warrenpoint, though standard GNR opens were the norm there. Generally, the ex-GNR stuff stayed on their former lines, with NCC stuff remaining in its erstwhile territory too. Exceptions were Jeeps which appeared more and more on the GNR as ex-GNR types were withdrawn. From 1967 to 1970, nothing but Jeeps were left. I remember seeing these on ballast trains on the GNR often. On ex-GNR lines, the UTA simply kept the GNR Eastern District* station colour schemes. Station name boards** were wooden and bright yellow, with cast iron letters screwed on, and no surrounding frame like on CIE. As NIR came in, most were repainted maroon with light grey letters. Others just fell apart and/or were replaced by more modern NIR ones. The last GNR yellow station nameboard was on the down line at Dunmurry; it was still in place in the early 1980s. Station paintwork was dark green - not as dark as carriages, more like dark CIE green - and cream. The cream was a darkish shade and a 1 inch black line separated the green and cream. Large painted areas, e.g. signal cabins***, were cream, with doors, door frames, window frames and gutters in dark green. Warrenpoint would have had the green and cream to the end, and its nameboard was yellow to the end. The former Strabane one, heavily reconstructed, can be seen in Cultra. Bread vans or flats with bread containers could sometimes be seen tagged onto the back of railcars sets, or fitted parcel vans. Ex-NCC "Brown Vans" were not really to be seen on the ex-GNR at all - very rare, and probably not at all south of Portadown. CIE "Tin Vans" could appear - again, rarely. You'd probably need a dirty silver one or a green one for your period. CIE excursions came into Warrenpoint on occasion. I believe an "A" class got into there once at least, probably on an IRRS jaunt. Laminates and Park Royals for the load - all in green. 141 class locos made it to Omagh on several occasions in 1963, but I am unaware of a 141 ever getting into Warrenpoint. I do not believe that a 121 ever travelled on either the Warrenpoint line nor the Derry Road. I hope that's of help. * The GNR Western District (Dundalk - Cootehill - Carrickmacross - Enniskillen - Omagh / Bundoran, and Portadown - Cavan / Belturbet) has an entirely different paint scheme, the details of which I have; light brown dominated. While much of this didn't survive, the UTA painted the Derry Road stations in an attractive scheme of leaf green, light grey and red; this was also applied to a number of NCC stations like Antrim, Ballymena and Ballymoney. Antrim still had this scheme into the early 1990s. ** Why have people in England and the Isle of man started calling station nameboards "Running-In Boards"? They don't move anywhere............ *** While on the subject of nomenclature, we're all aware here, I'm sure, that in Ireland we have signal cabins, while across the water they have signal boxes!

Yes, that's mine. Note the non-standard CIE logo, different proportions. From some research, it would appear that they started painting them orange about 1970/1. Standard wagon grey all over before that. Any built after that would have been orange when new. The lettering "B U L K C E M E N T" was stencilled. The grey chassis didn't stay grey very long! The chassis was NEVER black with orange bubble; but once they were repainted cream, with both logos, chassis were black - highly unusual for Irish wagons.

Put me down for a CIE one, John.

That is looking VERY nice. Lining was yellow and black. Check just about anything in British LMS livery. Lettering was gold, shaded red and black. I strongly suspect the cylinders were black, but I'm not 100% certain. Cast numberplate backgrounds were red rather than maroon.