jhb171achill

Oooooh goody goody goody! Hope I can be there!

Former MGWR six-wheeled stock were to be seen in locations as diverse as West Cork, the Harcourt Street and Bray - Amiens St lines, every corner of the Midland, even in Enniskillen when borrowed by the SLNCR! In the 1910s, six or more spent a number of years on loan to the BCDR and would have covered all that system. The Sligo - Limerick - Tralee lines saw them too, as did the Foynes branch. I am quite sure that they were to be seen at many GSWR locations, even the main line. At least one went over the the Waterford & Tramore, I think. The last use of them, in summer 1963, was on the Cork - Youghal and Cobh lines. An IRRS excursion over to Albert Quay used one in early 1964. It was already officially withdrawn, and this trip marked the last passenger journey by a six-wheeled coach, as well as the last passenger working across the Cork City Railway and into Albert Quay. Wish I'd been on it - at my age, I would have clearly remembered it.........!

That oul crate of a thing they had on the Foynes branch in its last days was a MGWR brake 3rd.... Drawings sent to Worsley Works today. I still have to photocopy one and send it too. Allen is all ready to go once I get him whatever stuff I can.

That is an absolute work of art - very impressive.

VERY nice.

Seeing single "bubbles" in a goods train back in the day was commonplace. Seeing a uniform rake of ANYTHING was exceptional. I made a note once only, of a goods passing Lisburn northbound. It must have been about 1970. I can't find it now, but what I do recall is that it was mostly "H" vans and Bullied opens, a few vans, then maybe one open, then another couple of vans etc... and strung through this lot were Lancashire Flats with Guinness and THREE bubbles. There were 34 wagons in all, including - if I recall correctly - two brake vans, one at each end. I suspect the leading one was travelling "light". This was absolutely the norm. Block trains of a single type of wagon only became the norm after about 1975, when goods facilities nationwide were severely rationalised. The same with passenger trains. Someone asked me recently what sort of rakes Cravens first appeared in, and was surprised to learn that almost never did you get a train of Cravens only - in fact, with no Cravens being firsts or dining cars, and most main line services still offering two classes and many also having catering, a train of Cravens only was something that personally I NEVER saw, not once. Laminates of the various types, Park Royals, and the last few Bredins were all a common fleet with them, and a typical main line train was maybe three Cravens, two Laminate standard, a Park Royal, a laminate-like dining car*, and a genny van. (* None of the "laminate" dining cars were actually constructed with laminated frames, so technically they weren't "laminates". They had solid frames. The DESIGN was similar, though, of course.)

Any photos of Little Siddington?

Further wanderings; Railcars - Allen Doherty's Worsley Works make a range of "scratch-aid" kits including the AEC and BUT cars (plus MED types as seen on the Larne and Bangor lines). A certain level of skill is required for these, and you need to get your own chassis, motors, etc. One of his K15 coach kits would make a suitable intermediate too. On the ex-GNR section, the UTA and NIR almost always ran railcar sets in three-coach formations, sometimes four. I never saw a two-car set on the GN. Allen also does the 70 class sets. These were only on the main line. They arrived two years after the "Derry Road" closed - a pity, as a run in one over that live would have been amazing. 70s never got into Warrenpoint either, as it too was closed when they arrived. But if you're doing the main line too.... 70s were never green; they arrived in what would eventually become similar to NIR livery. The initial red / maroon was (I think) slightly lighter on 70s when new.

Just a few more random wanderings of thought...... Warrenpoint would make an excellent prototype. With tracks all parallel, Mills architecture and an overall roof, it would be a gem. Stock for the branch in your era was inevitably AEC railcars or one of the Gardner articulated ones - that would make a very unique model but you'd have to scratchbuild it. Excursions were where the interest arose - you'll need two or three of the 00 Works U or UG types. The UTA often used ex-GNR 0.6.0s on the branch, but a U or S or towards the end an NCC "Jeep" were occasionally to be seen. carriages here would have to be ex-GNR types, mostly wooden bodied. This, unfortunately, will require scratchbuilding. What the modelling world is really crying out for is a RTR AEC railcar set. This can be used in GNR, CIE, UTA and NIR guises. The types bought by both CIE and the GNR in the early 1950s would become almost as standard on many routes as the comparatively dull ICRs and CAFs are today. CIE's ended up as Dublin area push-pulls. The GNR ones were split between CIE and the UTA; the share which went to the latter ending up in NIR's maroon and light grey. To add colour to a Warrenpoint layout, or any GNR area layout in UTA days (1958-68), you've some interesting livery variations. The GNR's navy blue (NOT modern "Craven blue") and cream didn't just all disappear on 1st October 1958. Some GNR cars would have their GNR markings painted out and a UTA roundel put on instead, with UTA-style numerals. Some would get the yellow and black end wasp stripes while still in GNR navy and cream. The UTA initially painted their cars all green, front end included; but very quickly (I think from 1962) the wasp stripes were added. While this didn't apply to the AEC or BUT cars, some railcars had white on the front of the cab above the wasp stripes. If you do any NCC area railcars, this can apply to them. An interesting detail in UTA green livery is that loco-hauled stock had a straw line at waist level, like on 728 at Downpatrick. This was edged in red on both sides. Tiny traces of this line can be seen on one end of the ex-Golfer's Saloon at Downpatrick in the carriage Gallery. Railcars, however, and railcar intermediates, did not have this waist line. Goods into Warrenpoint was generally in the hands of D or U class 0.6.0s. You can safely say that about a quarter of the stock would be CIE; especially the standard "H" vans; check out Leslie McAllister's Provincial Wagons range. Bread containers on flats would also be common, especially the red Inglis ones. Goods brake vans were inevitably of ex-GNR style. Don't model them on "Ivan" as fantastic though its restoration is, the livery is utterly inaccurate. Plain grey all over - roof, sides, inside balconies, ironwork, the lot. However - one convenient thing is that in your era the N I Government had already decided that there was no future at all in the railways, especially rail freight, so no new rolling stock was built, and the remaining ex-GN and NCC stock in use became more and more dishevelled. As a result, the livery is nothing more or less than extremely heavy weathering over varying shades of grey - not varying on account of being painted differently, but on account of being extremely work-worn. On many vans and open wagons, replacement planks just weren't painted at all. Guard's vans - very heavily weathered and the chassis on everything non-passenger just a nondescript brown brake dust coating. The GNR, NCC and UTA didn't paint all their wagons plain grey like the GSR or CIE did. The GNR painted fitted vans brown (all over). Forget about these white roofs you see on some models; none were ever thus in reality. While (post-1970) CIE brown wagons were brown all over, roof included, I am almost certain that brown GNR vans had grey roofs. No open wagons were brown. The NCC, however, painted the wagons used for the Courtaulds coal traffic in a brownish red colour, with black chassis. Some of these would have appeared the odd time as far south as Warrenpoint, though standard GNR opens were the norm there. Generally, the ex-GNR stuff stayed on their former lines, with NCC stuff remaining in its erstwhile territory too. Exceptions were Jeeps which appeared more and more on the GNR as ex-GNR types were withdrawn. From 1967 to 1970, nothing but Jeeps were left. I remember seeing these on ballast trains on the GNR often. On ex-GNR lines, the UTA simply kept the GNR Eastern District* station colour schemes. Station name boards** were wooden and bright yellow, with cast iron letters screwed on, and no surrounding frame like on CIE. As NIR came in, most were repainted maroon with light grey letters. Others just fell apart and/or were replaced by more modern NIR ones. The last GNR yellow station nameboard was on the down line at Dunmurry; it was still in place in the early 1980s. Station paintwork was dark green - not as dark as carriages, more like dark CIE green - and cream. The cream was a darkish shade and a 1 inch black line separated the green and cream. Large painted areas, e.g. signal cabins***, were cream, with doors, door frames, window frames and gutters in dark green. Warrenpoint would have had the green and cream to the end, and its nameboard was yellow to the end. The former Strabane one, heavily reconstructed, can be seen in Cultra. Bread vans or flats with bread containers could sometimes be seen tagged onto the back of railcars sets, or fitted parcel vans. Ex-NCC "Brown Vans" were not really to be seen on the ex-GNR at all - very rare, and probably not at all south of Portadown. CIE "Tin Vans" could appear - again, rarely. You'd probably need a dirty silver one or a green one for your period. CIE excursions came into Warrenpoint on occasion. I believe an "A" class got into there once at least, probably on an IRRS jaunt. Laminates and Park Royals for the load - all in green. 141 class locos made it to Omagh on several occasions in 1963, but I am unaware of a 141 ever getting into Warrenpoint. I do not believe that a 121 ever travelled on either the Warrenpoint line nor the Derry Road. I hope that's of help. * The GNR Western District (Dundalk - Cootehill - Carrickmacross - Enniskillen - Omagh / Bundoran, and Portadown - Cavan / Belturbet) has an entirely different paint scheme, the details of which I have; light brown dominated. While much of this didn't survive, the UTA painted the Derry Road stations in an attractive scheme of leaf green, light grey and red; this was also applied to a number of NCC stations like Antrim, Ballymena and Ballymoney. Antrim still had this scheme into the early 1990s. ** Why have people in England and the Isle of man started calling station nameboards "Running-In Boards"? They don't move anywhere............ *** While on the subject of nomenclature, we're all aware here, I'm sure, that in Ireland we have signal cabins, while across the water they have signal boxes!

Yes, that's mine. Note the non-standard CIE logo, different proportions. From some research, it would appear that they started painting them orange about 1970/1. Standard wagon grey all over before that. Any built after that would have been orange when new. The lettering "B U L K C E M E N T" was stencilled. The grey chassis didn't stay grey very long! The chassis was NEVER black with orange bubble; but once they were repainted cream, with both logos, chassis were black - highly unusual for Irish wagons.

Put me down for a CIE one, John.

That is looking VERY nice. Lining was yellow and black. Check just about anything in British LMS livery. Lettering was gold, shaded red and black. I strongly suspect the cylinders were black, but I'm not 100% certain. Cast numberplate backgrounds were red rather than maroon.

In terms of planning, I started with a Hornby oval of track, an 0.4.0 and three goods vans; like many of us, and aged 12. By 18, I'd had a standard 6ft x 4ft layout with Hornby BR stuff (I always had a soft spot for Class 31s). Then came an extended version of that, followed by a venture into 009 which was meant to loosely represent a CIE narrow gauge line somewhere in the West. That didn't survive a house move (my first), where a very large 009 set-up was built in the attic - my pride and joy until a damp problem and burst pipe bent all the baseboards and that was that. It was a substantial set-up, though never had scenery applied - not even platforms. It was meant for operational intrigue, which it had. That's gone now, a victim of two house moves in 20 years. The house in between had a G scale line in the garden for a while. Now, Dugort Harbour takes shape by degrees. It's small - a shunting / fiddle yard thing - but hope springs eternal for planning permission for an extension......! For the first time in my case, it'll have high quality scenery. Currently, baseboards are in the hands of Baseboard Dave in Edenderry, and a superb job so far. Point is - don't be put off if something that you initially plan doesn't live up to what you expected. Like Robert the Bruces' spider, "try, try and try again". As others have said, doodling station plans on random bits of paper passes the time and fires the imagination, and the planning is part of the journey.

I like the realistically rough ground surface. All too often we see perfect layouts with mirror-smooth goods yards and approach roads....!

That weathering is very realistic - excellent as always.

Update on ferts and mesh doors, following a little research - several only were trialled like this but it wasn’t practical, so it is likely all went into traffic with solid doors. IF any saw use with mesh doors, it was very short lived and confined to a very small number of examples.

Yes. There were 2 or 3 into the 1990s. One is at Downpatrick (in a "hybrid" = utterly unauthentic livery!). Body wise it is in more or less original condition. The one shown above is indeed of GSWR parentage, and indeed a "Trigger's Brush"! Wheels, axleguards, buffers and body are of CIE origin, and comparatively modern times at that. The overall chassis and probably the original body framing is original - that's all. There were several built, I think about 1915.

DCDR would eventually find much corrosion on 146, which over the last few years has been remedied.

The September one won’t be running.

Many old lines have ample room for both - often, when a railway was build, the company took enough land to double it, should this be needed in the future.

16 x 18 Inch lengths for sale. Description as above. €55.

This seems to have occasionally been done by the CDRJC, but I’m unaware of it ever being done by any other line. If any others did, I would think the Lough Swilly would be a prime contender! Given the amount of stuff painted grey over the decades, I can’t help feeling that grey paint must have been cheap too!

This just keeps getting supernaturally better! Such an unusual prototype with so much detailed thought going into its planning, never mind its execution. I'm really enjoying seeing this one develop. I take it you live in a 5-storey house to accommodate it!!!

Crimson and white was indeed what was in the back of my mind. But early on the LLSR proper changed, as you suggest, to brown & salmon, as below. No hard information on the very first LLSR carriage livery has survived, but the LSWR livery was indeed brown (lower; probably a dark chocolate shade) and a salmony pinkish colour above that with roofs originally white, but these would have weathered within a single trip to a lightish grey! Below are details, though the lettering and lining might have been different. http://early-lbscr.co.uk/lswr1520/Livery specification for 1520.pdf I can't help feeling that the ends were more likely to be brown, but I have no hard information on this. I suspect that the all-black livery came into being about 1910. Lining on the black paint was in red, which probably looked quite smart, if somewhat funereal, when new. In post-war times, or maybe from the 1930s, everything was plain wagon grey. (Irish railways have always seemed to have a love affair with grey! Today its the De Dietrichs and 071s....)

I'm sending him an outline drawing today, if I can find it; I've been away and am only just back.