jhb171achill

Reminds me of the time they took an interest in me speeding with a settee sticking out of my car boot............don't ask! !!! hmm points points

Des - at least one Bandon tank was painted green, can't recall number off the top'o'me'ead... but - if is that one, it could be a combination of a dirty green loco and a colour-compromised slide. The tale will be told by wther it has lining like "Maedb" in Cultra - if it has, the thing is green underneath it all - but the standard CIE shade (again, as on "Maedb"). If no lining, it's grey for sure, as no green engines were ever UNlined, and no grey ones were ever lined. Of the handful painted black, a single Woolwich got red lining for the Rosslare Express, as per the Bachmann model. Glenderg - yes, that description is spot on. To see it in the flesh, the DCDR has been able to ascertain exact shade, and this is currently applied to two ex-GSWR coaches there (836 and 1097). It won't be long until it will also be applied to six wheeler no. 69 there. The LMS-style maroon was first applied to the "steels" (Bredin 1935 stock) and the seconf batch of Drumm trains. I got that info from Senior, who saw it all happen, so that bit's first hand... There is some evidence that coaches painted in Limerick may initially appeared somewhet browner for some reason. Don't forget too that the GSR painted some main line stock brown and cream lined in black from the late 20s to about 1934. This, actually, is something I've yet to see in a model, but it was never applied to steel sided stock, only older wooden stock used on main routes. The Achill branch had a regular coach towards its end still in this livery, and quite fresh looking too, as late as 1934 - bogie compo 179M.

That is a truly outstanding bit of work - he has played a blinder there! The finish is just right, accurate, extremely realistic.

That's Inchicore's steam erecting shop in 2044, showing the boilers for nos. 890, 891 and 892 under construction.

The guy running on the pavement behind the van looks as if he just has! (Maybe that's the sergeant...) !!

Hahaha Kirley - well I think anyone who has waded through them has already passed the exam! Research for the book, I am reliably informed, has started! Photos are indeed the issue, especially since many useful ones have already been published. Tomorrow a big trawl of various archives continues. And there's another book to be finished ahead of it, I am equally reliably informed!

I would imagine a pilot loco would have shunted wagons on or off where there was one - and there more about that place than many might think. Using the train engine would involve big delays in many cases, but would be necessary in out of the way places. In Indonesia in the early 80s, when they were at much the same stage as Ireland in 1960, with little steam left, but the odd pocket of it, they also had locos in light steam parked all over the place and I know of several locations where in between trains, if there was a path, they would do odd trip workings up the line to the next station with one or two wagons. That made interesting viewing.

I always wondered why, on account of dayglo gangway ends, they see a need to put those awful day glo rectangles on the back of carriages. They don't have them on wagons..........?? And not one person has ever been killed because a carriage didn't have a day glo patch............

That's a good piece of info, Mayner - one would expect an AEC set to be trailing a couple of "H" vans, tin vans or cattle trucks - but not container wagons. And yet, when you think about it, 4w container flats were about (just about) at the time... an interesting one for a layout. I'm actually trying to find decent pics of AEC sets in traffic on peripheral lines at the moment.. not as easy a it might sound, especially colour.

Do they have a separate both where they apply the weathering? Hahaha BRILLIANT!! :-)

Gents... re, first, Sulzer workings: B113/4 spent most of their working life around Dublin, after their initial performance, when newly built, on the main line to Cork met with mixed receptions. In later days, in between lengthy spells in Inchicore they were used on North Wall / Heuston transfer freights. After 1960 i am pretty sure they were never used on passenger trains at all (not to my own memory anyway), and probably not much - if at all - after the introduction of the first AEC railcars, and later the "A" class, on main line links. The B101s were always synonymous with Cork - Rosslare, where they were regularly used on goods and passenger traffic. They were also to be seen on the Limerick - Sligo line from time to time with goods trains, but I am unaware of a single instance of them hauling a passenger train on this route. They made some appearances on the Tralee - Limerick route too, and almost certainly with the Limerick (via the Croom branch) to Cork goods, which ran until 1967. They were also used on the main line Dublin-Cork. The last ever passenger use of one - by this stage years and years after they had featured on any sort of passenger usage, was the 1978 IRRS farewell trip from Connolly to Bray with 106. I was lucky enough to get a cab run on that. The loco used, the last in traffic, failed very shortly later and was withdrawn. I could be mistaken, but I think I have seen a pic of one on a Dublin-Dundalk goods, but they were certainly unknown in UTA territory. I daresay they might have made occasional forays onto the Midland or DSE, but this would most likely have been on ballast trains or the sprayer. They also might have worked Dublin-Waterford via both Athy and also Abbeyleix - but I don't think they were ever regulars there. If I can glean anything else I'll post it here. They were very much "southern" engines. And as to a book, Lough Erne... I was approached by a colleage about a year ago who had some very good ideas about such a thing, and I said I would collaborate as and when time permitted. Your post prompted me to contact said person again this afternoon, and I'll be meeting another guy on Thursday night........ watch this space. It was indeed a very interesting period. I suppose I might use this forum to ask anyone out there with pics of anything particularly old (within 1955-70) or particularly new within that period, to gimme a shout...

Quite a few in 4mm scale, both 00 track and (more accurate) 21mm gauge. In 7mm, a scale model would be 37mm gauge. I daresay some modellers would prefer scale track, but more would go for 0 gauge track. I personally don't know any, but a O scale 071 would be amazing.

Excellent model! If she's out of traffic, she's just like the prototype!

(I mean I have them from THERE..... onwards.......) typo

Thanks BosKonay! I'm just seeing that the IRNs I have are all post-'57... must delve more. I have them from thee, bar one missing issue, up to the November '73 one which includes a letter saying that it's the last issue... The IRRS has a full set, as has a crony of mine.

Wow! Original subject matter and looks great, well done! Can't wait to see more.

That's correct Mayner - they were indeed considering re-engining them. I knew someone involved at the time. Imagine a GM-engined B101 roaring down the Cork line! They would possibly still be with us instead of 071s....

And part 2: 1960 dawned, the CDRJC closure attracting much attention. At the same time the Chairman of CIE announced that he saw little future for any of CIE's branch lines... and moderisation proceeded apace, even as elderly J15s were receiving heavy overhauls and even in a few cases, repaints. The traditional battleship grey steam loco paint stocks must have been running low, as a handful of steam engines (low single figures!) were painted black. But the C class locos were now taking over rural lines for the time being, though closure of most would follow within a few years. The Birr and Foynes branches changed from steam to "C" class operation in the early months of 1960. New Year's Eve 1959 saw J15 188 haul three old six wheelers constituting the last train out of Kenmare. Two of this trio were far from home, being of ex-MGWR origin. On New Year's Day, the remainder of the GNR in counties Monaghan and Cavan, and peripheral lines, slipped away, but not before an IRRS special traversed the route on 19th December '59 - oh to have been on THAT! It is interesting to note what was out and about on this still-very-GNR section in these twilight days. The IRRS special was a two-coach GNR AEC set (now in CIE green). A short while later, on the last day of traffic, railcar C1 had the Dundalk-Cavan parcels; A16 took 15 wagons out of Carrickmacross on the last goods train out of there - how many of us knew an "A" made it to Carrickmacross? Steam loco 161 was in Clones with the last Monaghan goods. As C1 left Cavan with the last parcel train for Dundalk, C219 was making up the last goods from Cavan via Inny Junction to Dublin. Steam locos were being stockpiled all over the place for scrapping. Various locations in Dublin had rusting steam locos in varying states of undress - perhaps a scenic appendage for any layouts based in larger centres at this time? Tne UTA was similarly occupied, with ten locos of GNR and NCC origin sold for scrap. On the other hand, the UTA BOUGHT the former SLNCR locos "Lough Erne" and "Lough Melvin"; not only, therefore, were these two the last new steam engines delivered to an Irish railway, but they were by far the last steam engines bought by an irish railway company! The Markethill and Banbridge branches were being dismantled. At the same time the UTA was singling sections of the "Derry Road" - only to close the lot a few years later. Some unusual rolling stock details from 1960 included the repainting of the old MGWR TPO No. 1M in green, along with a modern TPO; the first ex-GNR dining car (C401N) repainted into CIE green; the first use of a GNR diner on "foreign" metals when GN-liveried 268 worked a special from Westland Row to Galway; an ex-GN BUT car, no. 904, hauling a laminate brake 2nd (1905) on a trial run to Cork and back; and the now-preserved ex-GN diner 88 repainted in UTA green as UTA no. 552. This coach will be known to many as the diner in the RPSI's Dublin "heritage" set. Don't be confused by the livery; while many ex-GN coaches wore that particular CIE green livery, 88 was not one of them, as she went to the UTA, not CIE. She carries her current livery for uniformity with the rest of the set. A race special was noted leaving Westland Row for Mullingar in March 1960 hauled by A7 with five GNR coaches all in CIE green, and a 4 wheel "tin van". Among other oddities to be seen in the spring of 1960 was the last Pullman car - the diner no.100 - now in CIE green - in use on the Cork - Rosslare boat train. Over in the west, the last day on the Valentia branch (1st February) saw C201 hauling an 1885-built sixwheel brake third of MGWR extraction, a few wagons and a van in the down direction, while in the up direction C227 had two bogie coaches and two luggage vans. At 19:17 that night, C227 drew to a halt in Cahirciveen, the last train into the place. Passenger traffic on the West Clare was brisk, with one pair of trains each day having an average of 80 passengers, necessitating a diesel loco hauling all three of the railcar trailers and / or the ex-C & L coach no. 1. This was to some extent due to the carriage of school children, but the goods was so busy that a relief working often had to run. A fire on board the "Enterprise" on 28.1.60 highlighted (for modellers, of course!) the make-up of this train at the time. BUT railcar 906 led, followed by buffet 97, brake 2nd 192, and BUT car 908. A while later the "Enterprise" sets in use included BUT car C906N in green, brake 2nd 114 (now at Whitehead) in GNR blue and cream, buffet 238 in GNR brown, and BUT railcar 904 in blue and cream! The DSER had similar colourful trains; noted at Macmine a few years later was a three car railcar set, with one car in green, the centre coach in GNR blue and cream, the rear car in black'n'tan, hauling a 4 wheeled van in grubby silver! On St. Patrick's Day 1960, A60 worked a service train to Belfast. While there, she was taken on a trial run via the Central line to Bangor, thus extending the travels of the class onto the BCDR for the first time. On the same day, a CIE dining car (2400) made its firts visit to Belfast. Former GN ones had been used exclusively until then. Livery detail: the UTA announced its full coat of arms, recently designed, would shortly start to replace the "red hand" circular device on all locos, stock, buses and publicity. Also worthy of note for modellers is the the GNR section still retained GNR style station nameboards, trespass signs, and so on, unaltered, until a standard CIE bilingual trespass sign appeared at Malahide. The new UTA coat of arms made its way onto three ex-GNR locos which had been newly painted into UTA lined black. These were Nos. 33, 35 and 48. By mid 1960, GNR dining car 292 had become the first GNR catering vehicle to appear in CIE green, being renumbered C292N. It is worth noting that ex-GN goods stock was renumbered by CIE by adding "N", thus wagon 165 became 165N. Coaches and railcars had a "C" in front as well, hence diner 292 becoming C292N. One wonders why they didn't just use "N", or even "GxxxN" - it could be something to do with the fact that the letter "G" as painted in Dundalk, often looked like a "C" - but these coaches had "C"s on them, not "G"'s - whoever made a hames of that, perhaps! Locos did not receive an "N" - they remained as they were under the GNR. As 1960's summer became autumn, lifting gangs were working at several locations on the Irish North and the Kenmare, Valentia, Ballinrobe and Harcourt Street lines. The Donegal system was also being dismantled, with gangs working on the Ballyshannon branch. On 18th March a special railcar train of 14 and 12 with trailer 3 between them, operated from Stranorlar to Killygordon "for recording purposes". What were they recording? If it was to film the line, where is the film now? If not, what was the point? The Indian Summer of the West Cork system was the subject of an article in June 1960. To give a flavour of what would make a mouth-watering model layout system, on June 4th we can savour a snapshot of the line in its final season. The 12:15 to Bantry had a three-coach AEC set, the middle coach of laminate ancestry. Few stations en route provided passengers, though a few were set down. At Bandon a C class diesel was shunting in the goods yard. At Drimoleague some 25 passengers got off to join the connection for Skibbereen and Baltinmore, which consisted of C224, an old bogie compo, 8 wagons and a luggage van. The same railcar set returned on the 15:00 with 31 passengers on departure. The branch train at Drimoleague had the same coach and van, but one wagon; it was now hauled by C207. A wagon was attached to the rear of the railcar set, which delayed departure. While no connection at Clonakilty Jct had been made on the down journey, the up journey saw the mixed connect with our railcar set. C225 awaited with an elderly bogie compo (no passengers in it), a "tin van", 8 wagons and 2 goods brake vans. On arrival of the goods ex-Bantry, C225 swopped with its loco, C207, doubtless due to routine return of locos to Cork for fuelling and servicing. The 18:00 down Bantry train was sttrengthened due to a pilgrimage, and had an 8 car AEC set! And there we are for now.

Another dose of nostalgia. I have endeavoured to pick out bits likely to be of most use to modellers, but the originals are well worth a read. This post is again in two parts; here's the first: In 1957 the "big talk" was of the draconian GNR / SLNCR closures. I often thought a layout based on the twilight period of CIE goods / mail working on the Dundalk - Clones - Cavan - Mullingar sections 1957-9 would make an interesting and unusual basis for a layout - as, indeed, would any goods-only line, but that's just my thoughts. Certainly, models based around major centres like Dundalk, Drogheda or Mullingar might well have lifting trains appearing in them, setting off down a weed strewn track to one side, to go off "lifting"! From July to the closure at the end of September, a special diesel express was laid on to Gt Victoria St, Belfast, using a new 700-class (BUT) railcar hauling an elderly wood-panelled brake third. There's an interesting one to model! The winding down of the narrow gauge continued, with only the CDRJC and the two CIE lines still in existence. The first was to succumb at the end of December 1959, though occasional goods trains operated over a short distance until 3rd February 1960, while of the other two the Cavan and Leitrim succumbed earlier in the year, steam-operated to the last. Sufficient photos exist in books to give a modeller enough information, and the same probably applies to the West Clare section - the diesel locos and railcars on which received both the dark green and light green - snail-less and unlined in both cases. The C & L had ended up with one attractively painted coach in particular - a former T & D third was turned out in light green and looked very well. But other closures were in the offing. The Inny Jct - Clones - Dundalk sections and all appendages were closed from 1.1.60 along with the Kenmare and Ballinrobe branches, both steam worked to the last. Apart from a brand new 121 deputising for a failed steam loco on a (IRRS?) special, Ballinrobe never saw a diesel; nor did Kenmare as far as can be ascertained. Lifting gangs were beavering away on the Tullow branch, already closed. Inchicore continued to turn out new carriages of "laminate" style, and four wheel "tin vans", as per Mayner's superb kit. These had initially been silver, but it seems that after about 1960 they were turned out in light green, older ones being repainted thus. In August 1959 six ex-GN locos were transferred to Broadstone, mostly seeing use on Dun Laoghaire Pier trains. All steam engines based in the area were to end up at Broadstone as the end of steam drew nearer. "Stray" locos and rolling stock were of interest, in the same way that the travels of NIR's GM 112 (or 88888880000112 or whatever they call it now!!) were tracked in recent years when she was on loan to IE. In particular, former GNR stock was now venturing onto the CIE system, and green paint and flying snails were appearing on ex-GN coaches, always the lighter shade by this stage, of course. CIE never repainted any GNR steam locos, though the unique German diesel got the green, and later all-black. GN "BUT" sets were regularly used on a new Amiens Street to Arklow working, and another GN AEC set appeared regularly on a Wexford turn. A wooden-bodied GN coach, still in GNR brown, crest and all, was seen in and around Cork, in particular WEST Cork, and on 18th September 1959 the Bantry train had a silver "C" hauling a silver laminate compo, a green "Park Royal", a GNR compo and two GNR vans - all three in GNR livery. Meanwhile, the Loughrea branch set had the usual elderly dark green ex-MGWR brake third and a clerestorey-roofed GNR compo, hauled by an elderly MGWR 0.6.0. This cross-pollination of CIE and the GNR did not stop at rolling stock - a signal box lever frame from Monaghan was installed at Cobh. GNR wagons could be seen all ov er the IE system, and CIE ones were already no stranger to Belfast, Derry and even Larne. An E401 class loco was trialled on the Courtmacsherry line in Septembe 1959 and it was reported that this would "probably" provide motive power for beet trains that winter. It was not to be: such traffic remained in the hands of ex-MGWR "J26" class 0.6.0Ts and ex GSWR "J30" class locos 90 and 100, until the line closed a few years later. The UTA continued scrapping steam engines. Two ex-BCDR tank engines were among those auctioned off as late as 1959, but production of new MPD railcars and upgrading of existing ones was ongoing. Many were converted from existing steam-hauled coaches, and in late '59 several were turned out in a pale blue-tinted green instead of standard brunswick green. Roofs of these were left, CIE-style, in unpainted aluminium which (as anyone in Inchicore could have told them) would look filthy after an extremely short time in use! GAA traffic in 1959 continued to provide statistics which would have modern railway operators reaching for valium. On 5th July,thirteen trains travelled to Navan for a Dublin-v-Louth game. 7 came from Dublin via Drumree, 2 from Dundalk, and one each from Killester, Ardee, Drogheda and Oldcastle. The match was drawn and on 23rd July a similar exercise was undertaken for the replay. A few days earlier a match at Clones resulted in specials arriving there from Mullingar, Monaghan, Dundalk and Dublin (via Dundalk). No less than 16 trains went to Killarney on 2nd August, along with 11 to Tullamore. On 26th July the Munster final brought no less than 25 specials to Thurles, as follows: 6 from Cork 3 Waterford 2 Dublin 2 Clonmel 1 Annacotty 1 Dungarvan via Waterford 1 Wexford via Campile 1 Grange 1 Carrick-on-Suir 1 Mallow 1 Blarney 1 Limerick Jct 1 Tralee 1 Cahir 1 Newcastle West via Limerick 1 Cappagh via Mallow September 6th's hurling final at Croke Park brought 27 specials to Dublin, while the footbal on September 26th had 30 specials to Dublin. The West Cork's seaside excursions in the final years of the line's life in the very late 50's / early 60s are well known. However CIE also operated seaside day trips over other routes, in some cases off otherwise quite obscure branch lines, thus: Ennis-Lahinch Drogheda-Laytown Cork-Courtmacsherry (as mentioned) Loughrea-Galway Tuam-Galway Ballaghaderreen-Sligo Thurles-Waterford (for Tramore) Castleisland or Tralee - Fenit In addition, heavy traffic on Dublin and Cork suburban routes served similar purposes. On 23.8.59 several trains operated along these lines which would not prove to be much other than one-offs: Cork to Bantry and also to Clonakilty (for Inchydoney Strand), and another to Baltimore. From one cultural phenomenon to another: the UTA continued to operate well-patronised specials to places where Orange demonstrations were taking place. On the NCC section, "Jeeps" were much in evidence on this type of traffic, but some ex-GN locos worked through from places like Lisburn via the Antrim branch. On the GN section and Bangor line, such traffic was entirely hauled by ex-GN locos in 1959. Rugby internationals were another busy source of traffic. At this time specials were typically hauled from the north by ex-GN steam locos of 4.4.0 or 0.6.0 types, but ex-NCC "W" class 2.6.0 No. 95 made an appearance over the winter, as did B106 and A16 from Limerick and Cork respectively. Local trains in the Dublin area serving the matches included two CIE 0.6.0s and a GN one, and two GNR 4.4.0s. To be continued in Part 2.

"B" Class Liveries Further to the initial subject of this post, a more detailed look at the various varieties of "B" class locomotives. B101 class All silver initially, with green numerals; then B112 got the dark green with midway line. These locos had no normal buffer beam as such, so did not initially have a red area at the front when in silver. However, the area where one would expect a buffer beam to be was gradually painted red on all locos following a well-received experiment on B104. B110 was the first to receive black'n'tan with "high" tan, followed by the rest of the class, but in the mid-60s all were painted plain black except B111, which remained b'n't. From 1970 onwards, all were painted b'n't with "low" tan. Following the introduction of the "Supertrain" livery, all still in traffic received this livery. I have an idea that at least one was painted this way but saw little or no use thereafter. The last two of the class were withdrawn in 1978. B113 / 4 Details have been posted above by Eiretrains. B121 Class The grey and yellow livery has already been referred to. The reason 123 and 127 received red buffer beams in 1961/2 was because they worked specials to the Wexford Opera Festival! All were repainted b'n't, with CIE roundel on the sides, the first being B121, 132 and 134 in 1966, and the last two being 122 and 128 in 1968. The initial trio mentioned differed from the rest in having a (slightly) more square shaped "dip" in the white on the front end. From 1972, all were repainted into "Supertrain" colours fairly rapidly, and appeared in pairs on the main line expresses alongside "A"'s. B141 / B181 classes The 141s were delivered in b'n't but without the CIE roundel on the sides, which was later added, though in 1971 B177 still didn't have one. The later B181s all had a roundel from the outset. By degrees all were repainted into "Supertrain" style after 1972, but from memory b'n't locos of these types were around longer than in other classes. B233 / 234 As Eiretrains mentioned, these were somewhat exceptional, and I agree - it would have been interesting to see what use might have been made of them on push-pull "Enterprise" type operations on CIE lines. 071 Class Delivered from GM in a factory painted version of CIE livery. The "tan" was not CIE's standard shade, being significantly darker and more brownish. The CIE roundel on the ends was all white, instead of the normal style of tan surround and white letters, and it was not quite the standard shape of logo. It looked slightly larger than normal. At first repaint all received standard "Supertrain" livery. These locos did not carry standard orange with white logo. White logo, brown paint; normal logo with normal orange / tan. In the case of all of the above, "tippex" white lines were of course added post-'87, along with a change of logo.

I never heard of any major ongoing issues, hiddenagenda, but Inchicore crews hated B113/4 because the cabs were very cramped and unheated; I believe that at least initially the driver had no seat (!), and they were scared of them due to the brakes being prone to failure. The withdrawal of the last of the pair in 1972 was for brake failure on the way down to North Wall. 101s seemed to be well liked down south, where they did most of their running.

Now ye talking BosKonay.. must dig out more IRNs for the 30,000th!

Thanks for filling in those details, Riversuir - much appreciated.

Wow! Do I get a prize? :-)

Very good stuff - keep 'er coming - anyone modelling the sprayer? I was just looking through dozens of shots of various spray trains the other night too!