GSR 800

Some of you may be aware of Graeme King, provides LNER resin body kits, modifications and details. Well documented examples of what can be achieved here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/10588-thompson-a11-from-a-gresley-a1/ https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2443 The main question for anyone who would even consider a similar job for the irish market would be..is there a market? Lots of irish locos with common boilers, smokeboxes etc, especially when it comes to the GSR/CIE era and 'Inchicorisation' Next question is of course, donors, and I think this is the big stick. Lack of anything irish outside the Woolwiches and NCC types means both the whole niche hinges on conversions from British types, doable, but not a perfect science. Worth the money if some of the more common Irish steamers come around in RTR in the next decade or two? To what extent are people willing to pay, not only for a loco that could cost 100-150 euro plus the resin body or mod kit on top? If it gets into the price range of brass kits sounds increasingly like a waste of money for something that still won't be 'perfect'. Conversion kits for the Woolwiches could be a start, pretty much just replacing out the smokebox for an inchicore one? Flip side, N class isn't a great model, especially if you're unlucky enough to come across one with dreaded mazac rot... I do think even looking ahead 20 years, there will be a lot of vaguer irish steamers that will be unlikely to ever get an RTR run. Food for thought rather than anything serious.

301s had 6'7, same as the 800s, so difference isn't that significant.

Made it as far as Limerick too no? Cultra has definitely made some bizarre decisions on livery, slapping G S on Maedbh after CIE had just repainted her in the Dark CIE green is just one!

One can see that they were the "matchstick" variant. I believe there was usually only one in a train, at least by CIE days. Theres a photo of 102 withdrawn in a siding at Naas in 1959 in Irish Railways in Colour, still in the older dark green and eu de nil livery, which may be what you are referring to. JB would probably know if any of the three got as far as the light green, I'd doubt it myself. Good thread on them here

With an NCC mogul under construction, it's clear the way to go for any kind of new build would be mid size, with commonality of parts between other in use preserved locomotives. Very clear from the RPSI site the primary reason to go ahead with it at all was commonality of parts. The problem for anything new build outside of the GNR and NCC origin stuff is there's nothing in service to standardise to, unless 461 has a common boiler, cylinders and other fittings to other GSR types? Good thing about a Woolwich would be it has cousins across the way. Getting a bit ahead of ourselves, but tis only speculation!

S class definitely, well known, good looking locomotives with attractive liveries and a preserved example. J15s are a good bet too. Cost would be immense, 400s travel availablility wouldn't be much better than the 800s, iirc Clements mentioned issues regarding frame strength. Would be a nightmare in terms of fueling costs, and creeping up well past the ton in years. 500s would've been a better bet but still would be very expensive. Seemingly all withdrawn relatively early (mid 50s) wheras some 400s lingered on. GSR 4-4-0s are the biggest miss, along with the Bandon tank. Alas I won't cry over spilled milk.

Outside the famous, preserved types, 800, V class, S class, J15s, perhaps the (nearly preserved) Bandons, I'd be inclined to agree. Too much in the way of diversity in classes, too little notoriety, many more famous examples (850, Sambo) are one offs. Even for something like the 400s, mainline steam with decent numbers, I feel there would be a real need to get the locomotives promoted to be somewhat more in 'public' knowledge before ever going down the RTR track. Preserved locos have an automatic advantage in that regard, not to mention can get away with pulling more modern stock, even have the RPSI set to haul.

Agreed, all high quality kits! DItto with JM models, similar allowance for 21mm.

brass kit or scratchbuild is easier at that stage

Well the question is what has the most suitable chassis you can pull off, lot harder to cut and shut a steam locomotive(!) but realistically unless you've got serious kit or access to serious kit (ala Kirley making the BCDR Baltic) there aren't many suitable chassis to fit an irish prototype, so any kit will be limited by that. that said, Jeeps are probably up there, maybe the ncc moguls too, could they fit under some Crab chassis? 800s, maybe 400s and 500s could be lobbed under royal scot, n15 and s15 class, J15s under deans good and likely many other 0-6-0 types, V class under compound chassis. Problems arise in that they would have to be designed around the doners, could effect accuracy. The issue is in many of these cases there are already brass kits available, in many cases you can build off the donar body and get a decent result, and if (dare I say when..) something like a full rtr 800 or J15 comes about these things will simply get blown out of the water. market could be there for more obscure types. As I've said before, I think it's unlikely many of the GSR 4-4-0s will see any rtr for a long time, 4-4-0 chassis are usually quite basic, kit builds usually being difficult due to balancing. Hard not to see how it wouldn't be a niche in a niche though.

you'd swear they could've taken the footage used from ironing the land for the same effort. but sure here I'm forgetting the time the A4s were trialled at 130 mph down the dungarvin stretch...

Both tank designs have grown on me, though i find the pacific tank extremely bizarre, the gigantic coal bunker and the last set of drivers behind the cab, you can certainly see the origins from the older design. The big one weighs 80 tons....can't see them going on many branches, axle load on the drivers is more than on the woolwich 4-6-0 rebuild. However the 4-4-2 tank catches my eye, similar to 850 but 4-4-0 inspired rather than from the moguls. Standardisation of parts would no doubt have been something greatly desired by the GSR. It was essentially an alternative design proposed as far as i can tell An interesting resource for all https://www.steamindex.com/locotype/gsr.htm Of interest is an apparent 1937 design of an Inchicore Pacific type. Now, note I can find nothing else on this design, or that it got anywhere past talk other than the following statement! ..'1937 diagram for a proposed Inchicore 'Pacific' which would have much as the 4-6-0 later built but with a carrying axle tucked close behind Argentine-fashion, with a rather unpleasant streamlined cowl round the single chimney. Presumably, a Pacific was even more prestigeous, but adequate turntables were impossible to justify!' I presume that if this is of any legitimacy, which is itself debatable, it was likely a preliminary to the 800s, likely dismissed as being over the top when there were serious debates over the need of 10 4-6-0s, nevermind a Pacific.

Would love to know who gave that the green light. Gimmick indeed!

JB She's a hornby type rather than Hattons. May have to buy the latter and do a bit of a comparison! Late 50s early 60s so it's likely she'll end up in either the early dark green or later light green, probably the latter as I think it looks well. Some attained a livery of age... https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/irish-railways-cie RCTS _ Irish Railways (CIE).mhtml

Another building underway and a new arrival at Mullingar Nice piece of kit from Hornby, hopefully a good Irish livery will put an end to the light leakage.

As said, never enough Baby GMs, could do with one or two in original black n tan myself.

Be an ideal time to come out again with Cravens, to go with the A's and 121's

I may have seen something suspiciously similar on marks models website.. the platforms have yet to be detailed, but indeed the gap for the rodding on my platform will have to be extended back somewhat, it was quite large. Would he have been renewing that or perhaps the subway tunnel?

Having begun work on the two chimneys on the main station building, a had noted 4 others. These can be seen in these photos from Ernies archive The only aerial photos I can find are unfortunately not of the best quality, but nonetheless are better than nothing. https://www.cambridgeairphotos.com/themes/railway+station/ along with an excellent photo from the o'dea collection which confirms the low walls of the current courtyard were once walls of a corridor. So that leaves us with knowledge structures once existed which no longer exist within the courtyard, it likely spanned from canopy to canopy in one form or another, along with a second building nestled between which what probably the jacks. I cannot find anymore information on it, incuding what I can currently access from the IRRS, at least for the moment. Contact with several of the Irish architectural societies brought me no closer. There was an L shaped corridor and the jacks seemed to have been roofed also, the real question is the specifics of the roofing and the chimney position. I could either make an educated guess for the overall design on the building based on what I currently know and build with the ability to remove at a later date should better/better access to information arise. Quite the conundrum.

Can't be certain, but apparently outside Broadstone?

Good pic here of 396 hauling a rather pathetic looking train through Mullingar to Dublin! Judging by the state of the middle wagon, perhaps being sent to be repaired? For some ex MGWR types, it seemed working at all was almost a novelty, though the rubbish coal likely didn't help Since most regarding liveries has been covered, cosmetically yes addition of smokebox wheel certainly adds to the loco, but if going there perhaps raising the handrail on the smokebox door a few mill would be in order too. IIRC many had ladders on the back of the tender side, many ended up with their numbers on the top of the smokebox door too, as 396 demonstrates.

She's a thing of beauty John, even more so underway.

RTR rolling stock is an issue for anyone looking towards earlier periods, RTR laminates, Park Royals etc. One only has to look towards the interest here at hattons genesis stock to see that even semi prototypical rolling stock for steam has demand. Things that overlap with the early years of the A's are ideal, would make the likes of the silver and green liveried A's even more attractive. That is not to detract from the many excellent brass kits for coaches and indeed overlays, but RTR simply opens up an era for far more modellers. Mogul was somewhat before my time, but my two cents would be it was just a clean repaint of the N class. By the time the liveries were given the Woolwiches they had a different look from their british brothers across the sea. Lack of the inchicore smokebox and smokebox doors, wheels etc which were all fitted by the 30s meant that it didn't have the "irish" look, you could probably buy a regular mogul for less and convert. From a manufacturing point of view it was practical surely, had the design, just repaint it but it's not an original purpose built Irish locomotive, I think that makes a big difference. J15, smaller numbers yes, batch built so price was steep, nonetheless they, the U and UGs are all gone. Thing about the 00 works J15 is it was one of the roundtop boiler locos, aka one of the rarer ones, especially by the late 50s/early 60s but nonetheless sold out. I understand the production run is obviously entirely different, but I think the fact all three recently released irish steamers have sold out in spite of the steep cost is nonetheless, at the very least a good sign of a healthy hunger for irish steam. If you want to go with something the majority of your market will buy it'll probably have to be something famous and preserved. Now speaking with massive, massive bias I'd say the 800s would be a good bet. Probably the most famous locomotives in Ireland, preserved , eye catching liveries, not a whole lot of variation between them and the possibility of attracting a few foreign buyers too. However, that said, Maeabh hasn't been in steam since the 60s, there were only 3 locomotives of the class built which means there are simpler fewer to buy. I do think it's one of the best for an RTR steam loco regardless, would feel like the obvious start for irish steam. However I'd also be looking towards RPSI locomotives, V and S class both have preserved examples, there are multiple locomotives, the beautiful sky blue livery. 461 is another, totally unique although the drawbacks would be only two built, one preserved. She is a movie star though . J15s are an obvious one, two preserved, staple of irish steam with multiple variations to go for. They'd have been my go to for RTR recommendation if they hadn't already been done, but a few weathered ones with belpaire fireboxes and the larger smokeboxes would be perfect for any layout from late 40s through to early 60s. What does a typhoon class submarine and a J15 have in common... To summarise, overlap. late 50s/early 60s market is there with the A's and 121s. Add rolling stock and I think steam would be the natural progression after that. Personally I'd be looking towards the 800s or J15s if something like laminates or park royals get brought out, which is itself speculation but "creeping back in time" so you always have an overlap would open up the road for steam, while keeping the risk down. I'm sure many would be in favour of the more obscure locomotives, along with a 21 mm gauge RTR steam loco but ultimately it does have to be a viable venture.

Former GNR locomotives continued to be refitted in the late 50s and early 60s, often with the sky blue GNR livery freshly repainted if I'm remembering correctly. I'd find it likely you'd have something similar with the likes of the 800s, maybe a few of the luckier Woolwiches. Main question would be if they bother with a roundel or not! for anything like a j15, black, almost certainly, Cork already did it with the odd loco they got to repaint and most were near enough black with filth regardless. Turburner in black n tan or supertrain, there's an interesting thought..