If there was all the money in the world to bring meab back to the mainline what routes would it be cleared on. and what issues would there be to get over in order to get gsr 800 back to running order

[DoctorPan]

On 31/12/2023 at 9:37 PM, jhb171achill said:

Raise the bridges or drop the trackbed. IE will be unlikely to even consider either; I doubt even mcManus could fund that.....! As an aside, whether the chimney was a separate casting or bolted on wouldn't actually be an issue either way - it would be thye bridges, now known to be insufficient in height.

Even the optics of doing that would be a hard sell to the general public. Massive demand on services and IE turns around and spends money on lowering track for an engine they don't own, let alone a steam engine for tours would be a massive PR blunder. That's even if they could convice the NTA, DoT and DoF it would be a prudent use of public funds.

 

Regarding clearances - Modified GSWR (or IRL1) is the new standard loading gauge, which is 4.8m clearance from top of high rail, however can't say for certain as you get into issues of where corners might be. I cannot comment on the GNR loading gauge but I do remember there's some issue with modern containers not being cleared for it due to the aftorementioned clearance issues. I do also remember there was an issue with the Boyne Viaduct's loading capacity for an 800 being right on the limit.

 

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

There’s also a reason CIE effectively mothballed these locos fairly quickly. Irrespective of loading gauge, they are designed to do one thing and one thing only - haul heavy trains out of Cork and Dublin, and speed between those two places at pace. Swiss Army knife they are not. The other Irish main line express locos of the era - represented by 85 and 105 are far more versatile express locos and can get far more places = more viable for preservation.  Santa trains to Maynooth and back are not 800 class diagrams….Arguably, for far less cash, a new build of a GSWR 4-4-0 classic D19 or an MGWR 2-4-0 would be a better way of getting a southern speed queen on the rails. Having said that, I understand the fascination with 800, having glimpsed her first c 1976 in Witham St Museum - so big in that space you couldn’t really sense her beauty but only her sheer mass over all the other objects crammed in there. At least  in Cultra there’s space to see her properly. 

Edited January 4 by Galteemore

[minister_for_hardship]

28 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

There’s also a reason CIE effectively mothballed these locos fairly quickly. Irrespective of loading gauge, they are designed to do one thing and one thing only - haul heavy trains out of Cork and Dublin, and speed between those two places at pace. Swiss Army knife they are not. The other Irish main line express locos of the era - represented by 85 and 105 are far more versatile express locos and can get far more places = more viable for preservation.  Santa trains to Maynooth and back are not 800 class diagrams….Arguably, for far less cash, a new build of a GSWR 4-4-0 classic D19 or an MGWR 2-4-0 would be a better way of getting a southern speed queen on the rails. Having said that, I understand the fascination with 800, having glimpsed her first c 1976 in Witham St Museum - so big in that space you couldn’t really sense her beauty but only her sheer mass over all the other objects crammed in there. At least  in Cultra there’s space to see her properly. 

A 4-4-0 or 2-4-0 wouldn't have both pulling power and speed to have max bums on seats and not hold everything else up on a modern railway. Something like a go most anywhere, modestly sized new build 4-6-0, perhaps a version of the 400 or 500 class. The new build Mogul may be a good compromise.

[Galteemore]

Fair point, although 131 is incredibly accomplished at working current trains….but in his concluding comments in ‘Decade of Steam’, Drew Donaldson does pick out the 400 class as the cream of the CIE steam fleet.

[Blaine]

Love to know how this has already got to 2 pages - you have a better chance of seeing Concorde take to the skies again or a total cure being discovered for cancer

[skinner75]

At least it still exists, and wasn't 'recycled' into razorblades back in the day!

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Blaine said:

Love to know how this has already got to 2 pages - you have a better chance of seeing Concorde take to the skies again or a total cure being discovered for cancer

Or 800 taking to the skies?

4 hours ago, DoctorPan said:do also remember there was an issue with the Boyne Viaduct's loading capacity for an 800 being right on the limit.

 

 

 

 

Correct. She had to be hauled over the viaduct at 5 mph with a line of empty 4 wheel wagons between her and the loco hauling her. She wouldn’t be allowed on this viaduct with a train behind her.

[Blaine]

48 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Correct. She had to be hauled over the viaduct at 5 mph with a line of empty 4 wheel wagons between her and the loco hauling her. She wouldn’t be allowed on this viaduct with a train behind her.

Your position in malahide has proved almost anything is possible

[jhb171achill]

29 minutes ago, Blaine said:

Your position in malahide has proved almost anything is possible

It’s ok, I went through immigration, quarantine and disinfectant, so they let me in.

[skinner75]

24 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It’s ok, I went through immigration, quarantine and disinfectant, so they let me in.

I thought that was just for visitors to Cark!

[jhb171achill]

46 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

I thought that was just for visitors to Cark!

Tis too, boy!

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

A 4-4-0 or 2-4-0 wouldn't have both pulling power and speed to have max bums on seats and not hold everything else up on a modern railway. Something like a go most anywhere, modestly sized new build 4-6-0, perhaps a version of the 400 or 500 class. The new build Mogul may be a good compromise.

CIE produced a proposal for a 372 Class 3-cylinder mixed traffic 4-6-0 in 1945, technically a re-build of the Woolwich moguls the new locomotives would have been basically a 3 cylinder version of the successful 500 Class. Presumably the 3 cylinder layout with lower "hammer blow" would have resulted in lower track maintenance costs and allowed wider availability compared to the 2 cylinder Woolwich, 400 and 500 Class with their large outside cylinders.

Personally I think a second WT would have been a better option for the RPSI from an operational perspective than a Mogul as a new locomotive, but would not have the same emotional appeal for enthusiasts and fund raisers.

The GSR Locomotive Drawing Register was prepared by the authors of GSR Locomotives a reliable source.

[Galteemore]

Jeeps were available until mid 1971 so a new build might not even have been necessary. In retrospect it’s the biggest missed opportunity of Irish preservation, but it wasn’t so at the time. 4 cost £1275 to buy in 71. This is the equivalent of some £16,000 now, but such cash simply wasn’t available. Although you’d have to be a septuagenarian to recall the Moguls in their prime, it would at least represent one of the red Irish liveries on the main line again! A polished up W class with a suitable nameplate would look glorious.
 

Moguls, incidentally, were found to be superior over Jeeps on the Derry Road. Not so much in pulling trains as stopping them - the extra braking power of a Mogul gave them an edge over WTs - on at least one occasion, I think, a heavy goods train almost overcame a WTs stopping power on one of the steeper downgrades. Hence WTs hardly ever appeared with any regularity on the route until the lifting began.

 

Edited January 5 by Galteemore

[Horsetan]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:45 AM, Blaine said:

Love to know how this has already got to 2 pages - you have a better chance of seeing Concorde take to the skies again or a total cure being discovered for cancer

...or everlasting peace in the Middle East 

[Colin_McLeod]

The OP says "If there was all the money in the world to bring meab back.....".   With "all the money in the world" then all the infrastructure and other issues mentioned in this thread can be overcome.

[Brack]

Perhaps one might restore 800, then run her in Brazil or Australia where the loading gauge or track might be less of a concern?

Perhaps shipping the loco plus interested spectators over there might be cheaper than rebuilding the entire main line?

If the paulista lines could fit these

Or

Then a 4-6-0 ought not to be much trouble.

 

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Brack said:

Perhaps one might restore 800, then run her in Brazil or Australia where the loading gauge or track might be less of a concern?

Perhaps shipping the loco plus interested spectators over there might be cheaper than rebuilding the entire main line?

If the paulista lines could fit these

Or

Then a 4-6-0 ought not to be much trouble.

 

With literally "all the money in the world", that could work - but perhaps also building a brand new railway line Whitehead to Cork would be easier..........

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

[skinner75]

30 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

A rail link to the airport would do me! 

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

Including Abbeyfeale, Brosna and Castleisland.

[Horsetan]

2 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

Presumably this would include wholesale demolition of all properties and structures that were built on the original formations.....

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

17 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Presumably this would include wholesale demolition of all properties and structures that were built on the original formations.....

Not necessarily, I would like the more scenic route

[jhb171achill]

A fleet of twenty Maedbs, replacing the 29s on Drogheda - Dublin locals, and a wholesale return to steam across the system….

But we’d build one new Drumm train for Eamonn Ryan to travel about in.

[Horsetan]

6 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

... we’d build one new Drumm train for Eamonn Ryan to travel about in.

The batteries would have to be programmed to run out just short of the destination 

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

The batteries would have to be programmed to run out just short of the destination 

Then a team of Lycra cyclists would appear to push it……

[Colin_McLeod]

On 26/2/2024 at 11:30 AM, Horsetan said:

Presumably this would include wholesale demolition of all properties and structures that were built on the original formations.....

Or a revised alignment.

No problem for road builders, but somehow is used as an excuse for not reopening a railway.

 

[airfixfan]

On 26/2/2024 at 9:10 AM, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

Burtonport and Glenties then Parkmore?

[Brack]

On 26/2/2024 at 9:10 AM, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

With all the money in the world! I would love to see a narrow gauge rail system to all the remote villages in the country linking to a rail system covering each large town and city properly.

Looking at the proposed extensions for the schull and skibbereen and Clogher valley, you weren't the first person to think of that one!

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, Brack said:

Looking at the proposed extensions for the schull and skibbereen and Clogher valley, you weren't the first person to think of that one!

Was that the Clonakilty -schull proposal?