1916 names

[LNERW1]

Just wondering- if Harcourt Street and Broadstone were reopened and given 1916 names, what would they likely be? De Valera and Collins jump to mind, although as far as I'm aware all the executed leaders' names are taken. I'm building an ideal Irish network in NIMBY Rails, a software I've mentioned before on this forum and want to use the two as underground high-speed stations, but am not quite sure what to name them. Obviously I could just use their original names but it does feel a little out of place among Dublin's 1916 stations, plus a surname is usually less clunky than a geographic location (Although De Valera is probably more of a mouthful than Broadstone- more than likely it'd be shortened to Dev in real life). I'd appreciate a bit of help as this problem's been sitting with me for a good couple months now so I thought I'd turn to the much smarter people on this forum for a hand.

[Mol_PMB]

Arguably they have been reopened - on the LUAS green line - and have been given variants of their old names.

But a good thought. 

What was the logic for which stations were given 1916 names - they're not all termini, and not all termini were thus named. Maybe there are other stations that could gain a name?

[LNERW1]

I think the logic was just that the then (and probably now) 15-biggest/busiest stations would take the names of 1916 martyrs. I do quite enjoy the precedent we have in Ireland of naming stations after people- when designing networks in the software I mentioned, it's usually quite fun finding someone to name a station after- where it makes sense.

Just for reference, here's the network I have at the moment- I actually started with suburban and light rail in Galway and worked my way eastwards. As such, the MGWR has the most attention, as it should having been so neglected for so long!

The blue line from Dublin to Drogheda is the under-construction Northern Highspeed Line. At the moment Galway, Dublin, Limerick and Belfast have internal/suburban services as well. I won't clog up this too much longer but, for reference, here's Dublin:

[Galteemore]

28 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Arguably they have been reopened - on the LUAS green line - and have been given variants of their old names.

But a good thought. 

What was the logic for which stations were given 1916 names - they're not all termini, and not all termini were thus named. Maybe there are other stations that could gain a name?

The logic was that the stations were the nearest significant location connected to the person commemorated. Thus Sligo is named after Sean McDermott, who lived in Co Leitrim. The SLNC station at Kilmakerrill was actually the closest railhead to his homestead but had shut by 1966. Casement station is named thus because Roger Casement, although from the opposite end of the island, was captured near Tralee after landing from a U-boat. And so on for the other stations 

Edited 15 hours ago by Galteemore

[Mayner]

Choosing between Dev and Collins and others that took opposing sides in the Civil War would have been likely to have been divisive until recently. Safer to choose executed 1916 leaders that were acceptable to both sides.

From the Anti-Treaty perspective those that signed and enforced the Anglo-Irish treaty had betrayed the Republic, while from the Pro-Treaty side considered the Irregulars as in modern terms a group of Fundamentalists a real threat to the survival of the newly established Free State.

Depending on perspective people viewed Dev and Collins either as heroes or traitors.

Naming the stations after 1916 leaders was tied up with the 50th anniversary commemoration of the Rising and to stir up patriotic feeling and improve the Fianna Fail Government's election chances in 1967 General Election

Edited 15 hours ago by Mayner

[LNERW1]

Free Staters on the south side, Republicans on the North could have a chance at reducing immediately local controversy. 

[GSR 800]

10 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

Just wondering- if Harcourt Street and Broadstone were reopened and given 1916 names, what would they likely be? De Valera and Collins jump to mind, although as far as I'm aware all the executed leaders' names are taken. I'm building an ideal Irish network in NIMBY Rails, a software I've mentioned before on this forum and want to use the two as underground high-speed stations, but am not quite sure what to name them. Obviously I could just use their original names but it does feel a little out of place among Dublin's 1916 stations, plus a surname is usually less clunky than a geographic location (Although De Valera is probably more of a mouthful than Broadstone- more than likely it'd be shortened to Dev in real life). I'd appreciate a bit of help as this problem's been sitting with me for a good couple months now so I thought I'd turn to the much smarter people on this forum for a hand.

The most likely outcome is they'd have received the names of 'smaller' stations instead, such as Dundalk, Drogheda, etc. As mentioned by John, naming them after figures either side of the civil war would not be wise politically.

24 minutes ago, LNERW1 said:

Free Staters on the south side, Republicans on the North could have a chance at reducing immediately local controversy. 

And this would be unwise, it is, after all, a rail transport network, people from every corner of the country would be coming to and from Dublin. Dublin as a whole was quite pro-treaty. Far better to avoid it altogether.

My personal thoughts are if the naming of stations was to be continued after executed leaders of the Rising, it'd likely be famous Irish figures in literature, art, sport etc. Or if you want to embrace our industrial heritage, name it after notable figures of the railway. Broadstone Cusack, anyone? This would have to be taken with great consideration also, of course, as many of the railway companies discriminated against Catholics being in the higher ranks before independence.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by GSR 800

[Flying Snail]

As mentioned above - had Harcourt St. and Broadstone remained in use in 1966, they would have received two of the names of the executed leaders that were allocated to other stations.

In addition to Dev and Collins, another prominent name associated is Countess Markievicz - she ended up on the anti-treaty side of the Civil War, so she probably presents the same civil war politics dilemma (btw, we have since had public buildings and spaces named after all three of these). But, if you want to continue the 1916 theme and pick a name that would be acceptable to both sides of the Civil War - then I suggest you also think about those who died in the fighting in 1916. The most senior of the rebels to die in the fighting was probably The O'Rahilly, who had tried to stop the Rising going ahead, but still turned out to take part. He died covering the retreat from the GPO - cut down by a machine gun, he was refused medical treatment and left on the street to bleed out despite the rebels' surrender. He lived in Herbert Park, so Harcourt St would be a good candidate for him.

Another prominent death was the pacifist Francis Sheehy-Skeffington, who was arrested while trying to prevent looting and summarily executed. 

Now all that being said, if a station was being named in more recent times I think it more likely that the search for names would be broadened out to include literary and civic figures as well, so if your scenario involves a modern day renaming of the two stations you might consider some of those too?

Edited 39 minutes ago by Flying Snail