David's Workbench

[David Holman]

 Two steps forward, but one back at the moment - plus sore fingers too.

 Many thanks to those who helped with ideas re quartering the cranks. I used the old John Ahern book to make a simple jig so the six crank pins all have the same throw, then it was a case of filing and grinding the initial 2mm brass rectangles to shape. One hole is 1.7mm diameter, to go over the end of the Slater's wagon axles, the other is 1.2mm to take a 12BA bolt, fitted from the rear, soldered and then the head filed flat. Slater's crank pin bearing then go through the coupling rods and are held in place with 12BA nuts and washers.

 So far, so good.

 The arrival of a High Level motor-gearbox meant that, once this was assembled, I then had to take one of the centre drivers off its axle, so the  gearbox could go between the frames. Those who read my post in the question section will know I had managed to quarter the cranks successfully enough, but more at 45 degrees than 90, so on refitting the cranks I quickly fixed problem and was ready to test the motor in the chassis. 

 Unfortunately, here was where the problems started. Again.

 The motor gearbox seemed to work well enough on the bench, but fitted to the chassis it was decidedly clunky. At first I thought it was the quartering that was out [though the chassis rolled nicely on its own], but eventually it became clear that something in the box wasn't right. Indeed, it looked like the top gear, working from the worm was trying hard to strip its nylon teeth against the brass. Whatever, I now need to order a new 'box, because in dismantling it for further examination, said gear pinged off into the far, darkest reaches of the workshop & has run away to join the circus. 

 So, while waiting for a new box to arrive, have started making parts to create jointed coupling rods in the hope that I will eventually be able to add a degree of springing to the chassis.

 One day.

 Eventually.

[Galteemore]

Pretty spectacular work David. Frustrating re gearbox but reassuring that chassis rolls. Once that hurdle is crossed the rest is just detailing;)

[Tullygrainey]

Oh dear! Lady Luck doesn’t seem to be playing ball with you these days David. I wonder why the stage 1 gear wheel was self destructing. 
 I’ve occasionally had a shaft come adrift from its housing at one end, making the gear go out of mesh. I use superglue to secure the shafts and sometimes it doesn’t take. The first indication is usually lumpy running. 

The cranks look well. Making those was painstaking, I’d say. 

[David Holman]

That sounds familiar, Alan. I wondered if I'd got a bit of superglue in the gears, but couldn't find anything. The HL gear boxes seem very good, but from years of 7mm working, where you usually get stuff ready assembled, boy are they fiddly, to me anyway.

 Very much making it all up as I go along and as I mentioned in the Questions thread, don't have a definitive guide to follow, so will create one for future reference. Hopefully there will be a Swilly 4-6-2 and Donegal 4-6-0 to follow.

 Jointed rods being worked on at the moment and coupling rods to follow, then cylinders, crossheads, slidebars and dummy axles boxes, before the front bogie unit. I've built an entire loco in less time that this chassis!

[KMCE]

 

I feel your pain David. 

Having built quite a few of those High Level gearboxes, they are both fiddly and exceptionally well designed.  Once put together successfully they are bulletproof - key is getting them together properly.  If found that the gearbox sides must be absolutely square - I know it sounds simple and straightforward, but even a small amount out of square can cause running problems.  The additional small strap in the fret fits across the back of the gearbox opposite the motor side; those tiny pips on the fret are not etching issues, they help locate the small strap.  The strap  helps to stabilise the sides of the gearbox but also provides space for an additional bearing to support the motor shaft which helps hold the worm gear firmly in place. 

I would hazard a guess that the reason your first gear was stripped was due to the motor not fixing tightly to the gearbox and/or lack of bearing supporting the end of the motor shaft after the worm gear.  I have had problems in the past with this, but I'm only trying to move 4mm chassis - moving a 7mm chassis & later body will probably need the motor shaft bearing.  The hole in the small strap is quite big, so if the motor shaft is not long enough, it may be possible to extend it with brass tube through the strap, thus securing the worm gear firmly to the first gear?

 

Hope this is of help.

Ken

[David Holman]

Many thanks, Ken, much appreciated. Have ordered a basic Roadrunner as a replacement - the first one was a Roadrunner+, with the extension cradle and 60:1 gears, so have gone for 45:1 this time, to keep things simpler.

 However, fear you are right, as I did indeed file those pips off before I read the instructions! Lesson learned!I

 There is no doubting the quality of HL stuff, though to me fixing the worm to the motor with cyano seems odd. In 7mm scale it is always a grub screw. Speaking of which, the self same to fix the final drive gear to the axle is definitely an accident waiting to happen. Thought I'd lost mine, but fortunately it had attached itself to the motor.

[David Holman]

While waiting for a new gearbox to arrive, have been working on other aspects of the chassis. First up was to fit dummy hornblocks to the outside frames. Two rectangles of 10 thou brass sheet, cut out with strong scissors, soldered together, then soldered to the frames. After, made cut outs for the extended axles with a slitting disc in the Dremel. Nice and easy, for once.

 A bigger job, especially with the number of parts required, was the outside cylinders and motion. Remembering the Horlicks I made earlier as a result of diving in without enough thought, I read up a bit first. There are several options, including making the ends & then adding a wrapper, but decided to get out my mini lathe and turn down a piece of brass rod to the right diameter, drill out the centre & then add the various details

 Started with the ends, which are simply pieces of 18thou brass sheet, soldering in place then filed to shape. Thinking ahead [for a change], I used 240 degree solder for this, so I could use 145 for adding later pieces. The cylinder ends are bolted to the casing and a quick experiment showed that my rivet press would not make large enough indentations, so instead I drilled 32 one millimetre holes [eight bolts each end] and then soldered 1mm brass wire into these for the bolts.

 Inspiration for the next bits came from Tullygrainy's  Workbench thread & I started looking through various boxes of bits for stuff to make the gland where the piston rod goes into the cylinder, plus the slide bars and crossheads. The piston rod gland is made of three washers, soldered together, with a 7mm scale wagon bearing, drilled out for the rod to go through. More tidying up still needed, but the results are shown below:

 

 Ideally, the slide bars should have been brass strip, but nobody seems to sell the stuff other than online & it is expensive enough as it is, without adding the postage. Looking through the rack in my local model shop [any amount of tube, wire and rod, but no fine strip], realised that 1 x 1.5mm U section channel might do the job. It worked out quite well, because I soldered pieces of 1mm brass wire into the channel & then used the latter to fit into holes drilled into the cylinder ends. Used 145 solder again and had the cylinder clamped into the bench vice to act as a heat sink and stop my hard work coming undone.

  Making the crossheads was similarly fiddly. At the core is two rectangles of 28thou brass soldered together & drilled through for the connecting rod. The piston rod is a piece of 1.2mm brass wire soldered into a crankpin bearing, which was in turn soldered the brass rectangles. 240 solder to begin with, then 145 again after that. Each crosshead then needed 4 small pieces of brass strip soldered top and bottom to make the flanges which run in the slide bars. Happily, nothing fell apart while I was doing this and, following a bit of tidying up, the crossheads are a nice easy fit in the slidebars.

 The last two pictures show the dummy frames and the cylinder units held in place with Blutak. So, progress at last - for now, anyway!

[Tullygrainey]

Stellar stuff David! A lot of inspiration, invention and graft involved in creating those cylinder/slide bar/crosshead assemblies - I make it at least 35 separate bits in each one, counting the bolt heads which I love - but the results are definitely worth the effort required. They really look the part. 

[Northroader]

Really good bit of craftsmanship there, they’re enough of a fiddle with the smallness of the parts without the need to get smooth movement on them as well.

[Patrick Davey]

Seriously impressive work as always David!

[David Holman]

Well, it may not look very different, but believe me the last week has been a catalogue of blood, sweat, tears,  singed fingers and a serious pain in the primary orifice!

 Prime among the problems was my own carelessness. In removing one of the cranks to fit the new motor, I managed to partially melt one of the driving wheels. Yes, really... A bit of tweaking and some superglue seems to have restored order and this is how the cranks are fixed now. I learn, eventually. 

 However, this is getting ahead of things, because despite my best efforts, I must have spent two days trying to just get the basic chassis to roll freely. Unlike a simple 0-6-0, there really are a shedload of variables in an outside frame chassis  & at one stage I was contemplating making another new one, or even throwing it all in the bin. However, a two day break in France [Arras Christmas Market] was just what was needed & suitably refreshed [with a full wine rack as well] I stripped the chassis down and reassembled it using my Poppy's Woodtech jig. Turns out things were not quite as square as I thought.

 While rebuilding, I made sure all the bearings, cranks and so on were nice and snug, because the initial slack was also causing problems. I then took my time building the new gearbox, reaming out its bearings and cleaning the loco axles so everything was nice and smooth. And hey presto, it all worked. There was also a lot of slop in the keeper plate, so that is now tighter too. Fingers crossed, I will not be removing the wheels again any time soon. Being hidden away, I'm not even going to paint the inner chassis.

 Another job was making the coupling rods jointed & this made quartering the wheels easier as I could do a pair of axles at a time. So, it was at last possible to start some new work. Only two new parts - the coupling rods - but to say fitting them was a fiddle is more than a bit of an understatement, though it pretty much sums up the project thus far. Nowhere near enough fingers!

 Considerable care is needed on any loco with outside cylinders. There are clearances to check all over the place and some of them are fag paper thin. At least there is plenty of room behind the crossheads, but very little between the con rods and coupling rods, while the cranks also want to clout the slidebars. The cylinders are angled too...

 However, eventually all seems to have gone well and the outside motion appears to work nicely. The connecting rods take all the slop from the centre crank pins, while at the crosshead, there is just a 12BA nut and bolt. The motion bracket still needs work though, but it really was a case of stop while I was winning.

 The moral of this project is at the extreme end of measure twice, cut once. I've been working it out as I've gone along, but it's caught me out at every stage, so really must write up an abridged version of these notes for future reference.

[Galteemore]

That’s fabulous work David, and I know exactly what you mean in the catalogue of woes! This is shaping up beautifully- can already imagine that glossy dark green…..

[Tullygrainey]

As you say David, a shedload of variables all waiting to trip you up so no mean achievement to get it working so well. A fine bit of work!

[Northroader]

That’s a crafty move jointing the side rods, it will help no end with giving the back wheels some side play, as the front pair can’t go anywhere with the clearances they've got.

[David Holman]

 When the lady of the house [She Who Must Be Obeyed], comes in from carol singing in the village square and you excitedly announce you have spent the afternoon making a bogie, it is a tad disappointing to find she is not impressed. Or maybe not...

 Anyway, I was pleased.

 Nothing too complex, though using 3mm thick brass sheet for the frames took a bit of effort - the reason for this being to add a bit of weight to the unit. Otherwise, it was the usual case of solder the two rectangles of brass together, mark and drill out the 2mm axle holes, cut/file to shape then separate and make a suitable frame spacer from 18thou nickel silver. At the moment, the unit is fixed to the main frames with an 8BA bolt to a captive nut, with a light spring around the bolt, which I hope will be just enough to keep the bogie wheels on the track, without lifting the drivers off it. We'll see... The bogie wheels are Gibson, with slightly too many spokes and 2mm brass wire for the axles, as per Fintonagh.

 A few more ticklish problems still to do on the chassis, in terms of pickups, brake gear and especially the underslung springs on the the driving wheels. The issue with the latter is that these need to be removable if I am going to be able to drop the wheels and motor, as a single unit, out of the chassis. Have a couple of ideas, but nothing certain yet other than maybe somehow all attached to longitudinal wires, a bit like the way Mayner does his brake gear.

 

[Broithe]

50 minutes ago, David Holman said:

 When the lady of the house [She Who Must Be Obeyed], comes in from carol singing in the village square and you excitedly announce you have spent the afternoon making a bogie, it is a tad disappointing to find she is not impressed. Or maybe not...

 

You can redeem yourself.

As a seasoned caroller, she'll soon find a tune to fit these lyrics.

 

Old toy trains, little toy tracks
Little toy drums coming from a sack
Carried by a man dressed in white and red
Little boy, don't you think it's time you were in bed?

Close your eyes
Listen to the skies
All is calm, all is well
Soon you'll hear Kris Kringle and the jingle bells

Bringin' old toy trains, little toy tracks
Little toy drums coming from a sack
Carried by a man dressed in white and red
Little boy, don't you think it's time you were in bed?

Close your eyes
Listen to the skies
All is calm, all is well
Soon you'll hear Kris Kringle and the jingle bells

Bringin' old toy trains, little toy tracks
Little toy drums coming from a sack
Carried by a man dressed in white and red
Little boy, don't you think it's time you were in bed?

 

[David Holman]

Things get ever more fiddly on the chassis as each new bit gets added. Clearances are becoming very tight!

 Having got the chassis rolling nicely, the next job was to add the pick ups. Pretty conventional here, with small pieces of copper clad glued to the inner frames, then phosphor bone wire acting as wipers on the driving wheel treads. Thankfully, the large side tanks and outside frames mean there is no problem hiding all this stuff.

 Followed this with the brakes & was tempted to leave them out, but they can be seen poking down behind the outer frames, so needed including. Brass strip was cut and filed to shape for the hangers. The middle and rear pair are soldered to the frames and not connected to the brake rodding. The front pair are also soldered to the frames, but the hangers are hinged here and then at the rear are clipped to the frames so can be swung out of the way if required. Brake blocks are plastic mouldings from Slaters, just glued in place.

  The job that has been causing most stirring of the grey matter has been the main springs under each driving wheel. It is essential that these can be detached, in order to remove the inner chassis for maintenance. Various ideas were sketched out, but in the end I loosely followed prototype practice, as each spring appears to be hung from the outer frames by two brackets. 

 I had some nickel silver spring 'blanks' left over from a previous kit, so have used these, filing an impression of the leaves into the surface. I then soldered pieces of brass strip each end, to act as the hangers & then added a 12BA washer to the top end. The outer frames were then drilled to take short pieces of 1.2mm brass wire, to which the 12BA washers clip over. Eventually, the springs will be lightly glued in place at one end, but not until I am happy that the chassis is painted and working efficiently, as I don't want to be removing them any more than the bare minimum.

 That's it now, until after Christmas, as escaping to the workshop is [probably rightly] frowned upon - though looking at the TV listings I will be needing a lot distractions to avoid catatonic boredom. It would have been nice to get the chassis complete before Christmas, but have learned by hard experience that these things cannot be rushed, as it only ends in tears!

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Top class as usual, enjoy your Christmas telly

[Tullygrainey]

Coming together nicely. That's a great solution to the springs problem. Must salt that one away for future reference 

[David Holman]

 We were away for Christmas, which seriously limited my modelling time, but since then have been getting back into the swing of things with the Barclay tank. First job was to finish off the chassis and as if it wasn't crowded enough down there, have now added front and rear guard irons, front and rear sanding pipes, plus an extra bit of brake rodding under the cab, ostensibly connecting to the brake cylinder, though as the latter can't be seen, it ain't being modelled!

 Another job was to sort out the bogie wheels. These are 4mm scale and have 12 spokes, but on the Barclay tank, there should only be 6 spokes, so a bit of fettling with a fine pointed craft knife and some needle files soon reduced the spokes to the correct number. The centre boss looks a bit chunkier on the actual loco, so have beefed mine up with some 10BA washers.

 So, after reassembling chassis and body, to check a few things against the drawings, it was now time to look at the bodywork.

 A few bits needed resoldering, but the next step was to add the tank tops. The Worsley etches contain a curious piece, somehow intended to make the entire tank tops into a single box, which [thanks to info gratefully received from the Questions thread], clearly isn't the case, as the two tanks are separate, with the boiler barrel in between.  However, the etching does contain holes for handrail knobs and tank fillers, so I cut these areas away and soldered them flush with the top of the sides.

 Time to roll the boiler next, so after cutting a suitably sized rectangle from some 15thou nickel silver sheet, used my GW Models rolling bars to make a tube. More involved was cutting a couple of discs from 18thou NS, to fit inside the tube at each end. While I was at it, I drilled a hole in the centre of one of the discs & opened it out to take a 10ba bolt. I then carefully measured for another hole in the cab front, for the bolt to go through, thereby ensuring the boiler will sit level and central.

 None of these parts are in the Worsley etches, but a smokebox saddle is there, so this was folded up & soldered in place. Afterwards, I cut a rectangle of 10thou brass & rolled this into a tube to go over the boiler to represent the smokebox and then added a further disc to which the smokebox door can eventually be fitted. With the bolt at the cab end and the saddle at the front, the boiler/smokebox unit could then be sat in place to check all was square and level.

  I'd originally though that one of the Worsley etchings was for the smokebox, though an oval hole points to the fact that it is for the firebox, with another etch as the wrapper. So a couple of bits soon added to the cab & then, following some fiddly being to shape, the bunker rear was soldered in place as well.

 So, there we are - things are starting to take shape, but [apart from some fold up sandboxes and the cab roof], there is not much left of the etches, so pretty much everything else needs to be made from scratch - more than enough to keep me amused[!] for a while...

 

[KMCE]

I've been following this one with interest and the work you're putting in David is quite exceptional. 

To say the Worsley Works etches are scratch aid I think is being kind to them!  After trying a few of them, I found the amount of time required to make the mods required to get to the desired end would probably equal to the time needed to scratch build the elements in the first place.  Your perseverance is inspirational. 

More power to your elbow!!   

[Brack]

The barclay is shaping up nicely.

 

Zooming in on a few of Dad's photos, whilst i can't find a top down view (west donegal not entirely being overbridge country) and i don't think the tanks are sheeted over flat to the boiler, there is a little fill in piece at the front that follows the boiler's arc, where the handrail comes out (not entirely sure I'm making much sense here, but hopefully zooming in on the photos will help decipher what I'm saying!).

 

 

[David Holman]

Many thanks, Brack. A couple of folk have sent me pictures looking down on the tanks, which confirm what you say. Also a reminder to me to adjust the front of the tanks!

 Thanks also to you Ken, for your kind words. Just wish my soldering was a neat as yours! Worsley etches haven't been too bad for me, the Barclay set cost me £50 and the combined tank and cab sides saved a lot of awkward cutting out. For me the biggest problem is always trying to identify the parts. Don't expect instructions, but it would be nice to know what each etch is meant to be, because (to me anyway), they are not always obvious.

[David Holman]

 Slow, but steady progress this week, adding most of the remaining Worsley etches [cab steps and sand boxes], then making the major boiler fittings. I also had to cut a section out of the boiler, so it would slot over the motor-gearbox.

 Dome, safety valves and smokebox door, all came [to greater or lesser degrees] from the spares box. As a kit builder for many years, it is amazing how many bits you accumulate, though I've no longer any idea which kits they came from!

The smoke box door seems about right for two of the four Barclays - the other two had a thicker version with the brackets much closer together, but beggars can't be choosers and I found a suitable 'dart' too. A point to remember here is that one of the handles should always be pointing at six o'clock.

 The dome is a white metal casting that was the right diameter, but just needed shortening a little, while for the safety valves another casting had the valves cut off and replaced by two brass castings. A curious thing about both items is that, by the 1940s, they were no longer is the positions indicated on the drawing - both having moved forwards along the boiler. Annoyingly, this meant moving the boiler bands to accommodate them. Not sure if they are in the exact position, as I don't have side on view of the loco, but three quarter views enable you to line them up with the driving wheels, so this is what I have done.

 No luck in sourcing a chimney, so out came my micro lathe and some round brass bar. My first attempt turned out to be too slim, though it may well be adaptable for one of the Swilly 4-6-2Ts I want to build. Came close to making a bit of a Horlicks on the second attempt too, but managed to rescue it via the application of some car body filler and then using various files in the lathe to get the shape right. After, a lot of work with a half round file to get it to sit nicely on the smokebox. As per my usual practice, all these fittings are fixed with 5 minute epoxy, which is ideal in terms of getting the positions right.

 

 

[Galteemore]

That’s fabulous David. Really captures the look of the prototype. Nice work on the turning !

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

 Slow, but steady progress this week, adding most of the remaining Worsley etches [cab steps and sand boxes], then making the major boiler fittings. I also had to cut a section out of the boiler, so it would slot over the motor-gearbox.

 Dome, safety valves and smokebox door, all came [to greater or lesser degrees] from the spares box. As a kit builder for many years, it is amazing how many bits you accumulate, though I've no longer any idea which kits they came from!

The smoke box door seems about right for two of the four Barclays - the other two had a thicker version with the brackets much closer together, but beggars can't be choosers and I found a suitable 'dart' too. A point to remember here is that one of the handles should always be pointing at six o'clock.

 The dome is a white metal casting that was the right diameter, but just needed shortening a little, while for the safety valves another casting had the valves cut off and replaced by two brass castings. A curious thing about both items is that, by the 1940s, they were no longer is the positions indicated on the drawing - both having moved forwards along the boiler. Annoyingly, this meant moving the boiler bands to accommodate them. Not sure if they are in the exact position, as I don't have side on view of the loco, but three quarter views enable you to line them up with the driving wheels, so this is what I have done.

 No luck in sourcing a chimney, so out came my micro lathe and some round brass bar. My first attempt turned out to be too slim, though it may well be adaptable for one of the Swilly 4-6-2Ts I want to build. Came close to making a bit of a Horlicks on the second attempt too, but managed to rescue it via the application of some car body filler and then using various files in the lathe to get the shape right. After, a lot of work with a half round file to get it to sit nicely on the smokebox. As per my usual practice, all these fittings are fixed with 5 minute epoxy, which is ideal in terms of getting the positions right.

 

 

Outstanding!!

[Tullygrainey]

Yes! Oh yes!

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Class 

[David Holman]

 Have been adding various bits and pieces this week - a case of studying as many photos as you can, because a lot of stuff doesn't make it into a line drawing, let alone a Worsley etch! In no particular order I have:

• tidied up the smokebox saddle, filling in gaps with thin brass sheet and solder
• added the four cab handrails, cursing myself for cutting off the thin strip of brass in the space. Had I just cut it in the centre, it would have been perfect for a simple fold back around the top of each handrail instead fiddling around with tiny bits of brass strip
• handrails along the tank tops
• fitted bunker extension pieces: on three of the class, it was the usual coal rails, but No4 had them plated over, so this is what I've done
• added vacuum pipes, from the spares box
• tank filler caps, made by adding a thin oval of nickel silver to a thick oval of brass
• smokebox lamp iron, simply made from a piece of bent brass strip
• cab beading, from phosphor bronze strip
• cab spectacle plates - thankfully in the etches, because they would be a swine to make otherwise
• a white metal brake cylinder, from the spares box
• various pipe runs along the boiler from cab to smokebox
• various operating rods, mostly I'm guessing for the sanding gear

 The cab interior still needs to be done, but have put in an order to Laurie Griffin Miniatures for a suitable set of castings, plus a sset of loco jacks for the footplate and something to represent the curious spherical valve [taps? sticking out of the front of the sand boxes.

 I'm also pondering on couplings, having come across the Zamzoodles, which are working chopper couplings and would really look the part. However, the curse of the turntable makes them problematic for shunting mixed and goods trains because, like Dinghams and others having two hooks together is not recommended, so I may yet be sticking with Kaydees.

 So, while waiting for my orders to arrive, have started on the Great Clean Up, prior to the first 'witness coat' of primer & then however many further sessions of filing, scraping and sanding in order to get a decent paint finish. The various implements of torture are shown below:

 The set of 'whiffers' [variously shaped needle files] are always useful, as is the dreaded glass fibre brush meaning I can look forward to the usual nasty little splinters in my fingers for the next few days.

 As already mentioned, the loco is going to be No4 and a correct set of Barclay builders plates have been ordered from the Light Railway Stores for well under a tenner [including postage], which is great value. I'd been looking forward to creating that rather splendid Swilly [very] dark green, but Patterson's book says the Barclays were black with yellow lining for No4, though if anyone knows different, please let me know. The remaining pictures show the loco ready for that first witness coat, so it will soon be goodbye to all that shiny brass and nickel silver.

[Galteemore]

That just looks incredible David. What a fantastic build! 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Beautiful work.

[KMCE]

Superb!  And knowing the work that went into it, there is great sense of achievement getting to the painting stage.

Well done, Sir.

[Northroader]

Marvellous piece of modelling.

[David Holman]

Thanks folks. The shiny metal is now covered with primer and (fingers crossed), now awaits a black top coat. If anyone can tell me the Barclays were given the Swilly dark green in the 1940s, then I have a can of Ford laurel green to go over the black, which should work. Otherwise, I'm going to need to do a bit of lining.

 Been fine tuning the chassis this afternoon to get everything running sweetly before reuniting it with the body.

[Paul 34F]

Looking at colour photos of the Swilly, all the operational locomotives ended up Dark Green by the time of closure.  I’ll admit, I’ve not looked specifically for No.4, but if it was working in the late 40’s, I suspect it would be green.

Paul