Your Top 5 Irish locos of all time.

[jhb171achill]

My DIESEL list of locos wouldn’t be big!

1. 141s

2. 121s

3. South African Class 91 narrow gauge

4. The four 1960s Majorcan 1100 class Bo-Bos. Almost like a 3ft gauge A class....

 

I don’t even have a fifth diesel!

Edited June 17, 2020 by jhb171achill

[hexagon789]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The Majorcan diesels were, for the 3ft gauge, huge beasts indeed. Four were built about 1959 by Creusot, but when the railcars arrived to on the CFM system, there was little for them to do. They were 675hp, numbered 1101-4. they could do 70km/h but the track then would barely have allowed 45kp/h!

The last steam locos were withdrawn about 1964 and these things were left to haul 3 or 4 coach local trains. Hardly surprisingly, by 1965 two went back to the mainland, their subsequent fate unknown; the metre gauge lines on mainland Spain had more of them, so they must have disappeared among them. When goods ended in 1967 and two long branch lines had closed, there was nothing for them to do. They were noted out of use as late as 1974, but appear top have been scrapped soon after. 

Thanks for that jhb and the photo, they remind of another continental class aesthetically.

I've ridden the Soller railway on Majorca but not the other system out to Sa Pobla and Manacor.

The narrow guage system I would like to experience is that of Corsica with its 153km mainline across the hilly interior of the island, though it's a shame the 1940s Renaults have gone now.

[jhb171achill]

I'd love to do Corsica - it's been a long-time interest of mine. But the good railcars are gone and they run "trains" now through modern graffiti-strewn halts (like Majorca) that look like a cheap form of Luas. Utterly uninteresting, but I'd like to see the line. (Like Italy and Greece; I refuse point blank to set foot on any train with graffiti. I detest it, and will go on record saying that I would be in favour of neutering graffiti "artists" so that they won't produce any more; and their parents!).

I just about got the end of the Majorca system when it was a "real" railway, but by that stage it only went to Inca. it's been extended back to Manacor now, with the Sa Pobla line reopened too - and talk (always "talk"!) of extending the reopening to Arta, where the 3ft track remains since the 1977 closure. We won't see the Santany and Felanitx branches again, though.........

[Noel]

47 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

@leslie10646 the SNCF CC7100 Class:

3,490kW; 150km/h 

And the famous high-speed run:

 

Super clip 331kph (206 mph in 1955) not bad. The French were always top engineers in aviation, rail, maritime. These French locos were built before the metrovic A and C class. Just shows how good engineering was in France by comparison at the same time. 

[hexagon789]

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

Super clip 331kph (206 mph in 1955) not bad. The French were always top engineers in aviation, rail, maritime. These French locos were built before the metrovic A and C class. Just shows how good engineering was in France by comparison at the same time. 

They actually did 331km/h TWICE in March 1955, but with different types of loco from different manufacturers (the other class was the Bo-Bo BB 9000), identical speeds being attained so as to give neither manufacturer "favour" as it were. Technically the second record was only 325km/h but SNCF officially credited both as 331 for the reason I outlined.

[Noel]

23 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Desert Island Trains (a copy of my offering to the RPSI e-mails)

 

To start at the beginning: I was born within whistle-sound of the GNR(I), so I suppose that had an effect? When I was still a babe in arms I would be held up to look down over the fields to Richhill station to see the trains depart from the little station there. I am using the Lockdown to try and complete my model of the station in my loft – it sits under the original signal cabin diagram.

 

The first loco which I was aware of was No.83 Eagle which hauled us from Portadown to Belfast, but it is the VS Class which is my first Desert Island loco and I suppose No.207 Boyne, on which Ned O’Hara gave me a footplate ride from Goraghwood to Portadown in 1964. It’s hard to explain exactly why, but the smoke deflectors gave them a certain something and they certainly were fine engines.

 

My first railtour was Class PP No.42 (UTA number) on an IRRS tour to Coalisland and Omagh – the start of a lifetime of enthusiast travel.

 

I often say that if the NCC men of the 1960s, led by the estimable Frank Dunlop, hadn’t been such fine enginemen, giving me many memorable runs, I wouldn’t have spent my life travelling the world, timing steam trains. So, bless the memory of a remarkable bunch of drivers and their equally remarkable young firemen. Class WT No.10 (which gave me my fastest speed with steam in Ireland) has to join No.207 on the Island as well.

 

1967 saw me move to England and I managed 10,000 miles on Southern steam, so obviously a Bulleid Pacific is another Desert Island loco – never quite got the ton, but 35028 Clan Line gave me 97mph one morning near Winchfield – so that’s were my ashes will go! Norman Foster and David Houston were on the same train! My younger son, Oliver, was named for the designer!

 

1969 saw my first visit to West Germany and an introduction to the oil-burning 01.10 Pacifics. The following year I went to Hamburg and enjoyed endless (VERY) noisy running at 80mph with them. There was one train from Hamburg in the afternoon to Kiel – four sections of roughly twenty miles and sharply-timed. Almost every run saw a jet engine roar up to 80mph and hard braking to the next stop, often averaging mile a minute. Definitely another engine for the list!

 

Family life began in the early 1970s, so there was no money for travels to East Germany, as many another Irish timer did – I did manage a steam run on the Dresden line as part of my honeymoon!

 

Family holidays were often spent in North Wales (for cheapness) and much travel on the Ffestiniog Railway. My sons have travelled hundreds of miles on that railway and I was commanded by my elder son to come to Wales to accompany my grandson on his first run on the line. Oliver went one better, by proposing to his wife on the Cob at Porthmadog. So, the little tender tank engine Linda is another Desert Island engine – the family’s favourite. – good for about 20mph on a good day!

 

In the mid-1980s, British Rail ran a series of Sunday Luncheon Trains The Shakespeare Express from London Marylebone to Stratford upon Avon. In those days, it was local men who drove steam on a volunteer basis, so these were guys who drove diesel railcars during the week.  One of the firemen was Richard Rogers, son of the pre-War NCC driver.

 

At the time, I was flush enough to travel on almost every train – ah, there’s a thought – use the Lockdown to write the logs up properly. Anyway, a galaxy of locos worked the trains, but easily the cream of the crop was 46227 Duchess of Hamilton. One Sunday, the Inspector decided that it was perfect conditions to try and get over Saunderton Bank with a minimum speed of 75mph (I should mention that there was a 60mph limit on steam at the time!). Restarting from the High Wycombe stop and once we were off the 45mph curves the sound level went off the dial and we topped the climb at 74mph – setting a new horsepower record for British steam in the process. So, the Duchess is another engine for the Desert Island.

 

On another occasion, Flying Scotsman worked the outbound trip and Mallard the return. William and I were on the train and afterwards spent an hour on the A4’s footplate doing some very rare track – including turning on the Marylebone turntable. So, Mallard has to join me on the Island – well, actually pretty well any Class A4 would do!

 

A couple of years later, I took William out to Vienna for the weekend to do 90mph with steam – this time behind 18.201, an East German hybrid pacific. The crew so forgot themselves that we did 100mph for 400 metres. William, at 45 years old now ((he was twelve then), remains, I think, the youngest person alive to have stopwatch-timed a speed in the high nineties with steam. He only made it 98mph! So, 18.201 is on the list.

 

Fast forward to my retirement year (1996) and I participated (and timed about 60% of) Tim Littler’s ground-breaking Trans Siberian tour. Just 76 different steam locos used between Berlin and Vladivostok. After a month, the Russian L Class 2-10-0s became my most numerous Class for travel (53 locos, now after a further trip, it’s about 75 of them). So, an L Class is on the list.

 

Finally, my two years in Hong Kong saw me travel extensively in China. I travelled behind 85 different members of the QJ Class 2-10-0s. So I’ll have one of those too, please.

 

Finally, the best comes at the end. I have helped, with The Syndicate, to raise a few quid for the Society and once presented Peter Scott with a cheque for a couple of Grand and asked him to get No.171 running again before I die. It’s still my fervent wish.

 

The numerate among you will have noted that I’ve gone past the “Eight Records” allowed by the BBC and even the Top Ten Locos suggested originally. I should explain that I was thrown out of Uni because of my poor Maths.

 

Finally, that Desert Island Book. It has to be Tales of the Glasgow and South Western Railway by David L Smith. Less than eighty pages, but a sheer joy to read. My copy has been to Vladivostok and Hong Kong. So, incidentally has Mac Arnold’s Golden Years of the GNR – it would be hard to choose between them!

 

I’ll do another epistle with top ten journeys when I have a moment to spare and tell you what I’d use a Time Machine for …..

 

Keep well.

 

Leslie

 

 

 

 

 

Wow Leslie what a wonderful life history.

[Midland Man]

Top 5 non Irish engines.

5. GNSR/LNER D41s or whiskey haulers as called by drivers.

4. Bengal Nagpur railway GS class 4-6-0 ( these things are class!)

3. Nizam state railway A class 4-6-0(again class)

2. Lake Padarn 0-6-0 tank ( cannot find its name in any of me books)

1. 0298 class 2-4-0 tank engines. These are class!

Favorite Diesel engine would be the engines used on the OLD Glasgow underground.

 

MM

Edited June 16, 2020 by Midland Man

[leslie10646]

Like Noel, thanks, Hex, for sharing the electric clip - if only to try and work out what they were saying! How many people can you get in the cab of an electric?

The reception committee didn't seem too overjoyed with the effort?

That is unlike the reception which the steam 4-6-4 No.05.002 got at the Anhalter in Berlin in 1936 when she arrived after her 125mph (almost level track). Hohne (driver) and Langhans (fireman - he'd earned it) each had a bottle of Champagne  in one hand and a glass in the other, while in the foreground the top Reichsbahn bosses were grinning ear to ear.

By the way, my No.1 ride in a Time Machine, please! No.2 is Mallard's run to see if she equalled the German engine over a quarter mile and finally, not to be greedy, a run on the Hiawatha pre WW2 with one of the streamlined 4-6-4s - a seriously wonderful looking FAST train, even allowing for American hype!

Ah, just to be cheeky, what wouldn't I give for a seat on the Silver Jubilee Press run in 1936 - 40 miles at over 100mph and 112mph several times - on a loco with no speedo! The fastest overall steam run ever.

Edited June 16, 2020 by leslie10646

[hexagon789]

Just now, leslie10646 said:

The reception committee didn't seem too overjoyed with the effort?

Probably because it utterly destroyed the track in its wake! They also not only had to resort to using the second pantograph about halfway through the run but at the end of it discovered that the carbon strips hadn't simply worn away it had actually melted from the heat generated by the huge currents being drawn off the overheads!

[Midland Man]

I heard something that a German engine reached 120mph on a heavy good train. Can anyone clear this up for me?

[leslie10646]

1 minute ago, Midland Man said:

I heard something that a German engine reached 120mph on a heavy good train. Can anyone clear this up for me?

VERY unlikely, MM, but it lines up with the 119mph which the Germans took an 05 up to on a special train for the British Association of Locomotive Engineers. Stanier was on the footplate, if my memory is correct!

 

[hexagon789]

3 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

By the way, my No.1 ride in a Time Machine, please! No.2 is Mallard's run to see if she equalled the German engine over a quarter mile and finally, not to be greedy, a run on the Hiawatha pre WW2 with one of the streamlined 4-6-4s - a seriously wonderful looking FAST train, even allowing for American hype!

Sir Nigel himself only accepted Mallard had attained 125 and I believe the dynamometer rolls (which are in the National Railway Museum at York and can be inspected) only record a brief peak of 125.88mph so I think it's very, very tight. As for the Milwaukee Road, their F7s were reputed to require to exceed 100mph just to maintain schedules, at one point on the mainline from Chicago to the Twin Cities, at Rondout there was a famous sign at the interlocking: "SLOW TO 90", and that was in the late-1930s! Sadly the line is like so many in the US a shadow of its former self, and 79mph max.

I find it ironic that was is now the fastest line in America, the Northeast Corridor was in US rail's heyday of the 1930s-1950s only 80mph maximum, while lines which then permitted 85, 90, 95 and 100mph are almost all much slower. 

[Galteemore]

What an epoch that was in the USA, especially with the Art Deco Dreyfuss styling on the NYC....https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Century_Limited

Edited June 16, 2020 by Galteemore

[hexagon789]

2 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

What an epoch that was in the USA ....https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Century_Limited

Funnily enough the NYC was one of the slower Railroad's of the period. It's MAS (Maximum Authorised Speed) was 80 except for the route of the 20th Century Limited which went up to 85mph.

I think that's the only period in US railway history I can get excited about, when a huge profusion of railroads ran a plethora of named trains at decent speeds, with a wide variety of unique and much more stylish than now, locomotives.

The NYC Hudsons are among my favourite American locomotives, if ever since steam loco could look futuristic I reckon it would look like that.

[hexagon789]

Sorry, suddenly realised I forgot to put the photo in!

New York Central J-3a 4-6-4 Hudson

If I did a top 5 of steam locos, that's going in!

[Mayner]

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Sorry, suddenly realised I forgot to put the photo in!

New York Central J-3a 4-6-4 Hudson

If I did a top 5 of steam locos, that's going in!

Maybe a bit more low slung the NYC J3s streamlining inspired the streamlining of the NZR J 

 I wonder what an 800 Class or GNR Compound would have looked like with 1930s classical Streamling.

[minister_for_hardship]

It's faintly ridiculous putting streamlining on locos normally operating at pedestrian speeds, like  NZ or Tasmanian Government Railways locos.

Maintaining locos is enough of a pain without useless panels to remove.

[Galteemore]

As you know, it was as much about kudos as speed! Here’s a B17 that got the A4 treatment with no real operational justification ...

[Galteemore]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

I wonder what an 800 Class or GNR Compound would have looked like with 1930s classical Streamlining - 

Certainly for the 800, could have been a delightful fusion of Art Deco and classic Celtic motifs.....

[David Holman]

11 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I'd love to do Corsica - it's been a long-time interest of mine. But the good railcars are gone and they run "trains" now through modern graffiti-strewn halts (like Majorca) that look like a cheap form of Luas. Utterly uninteresting, but I'd like to see the line. (Like Italy and Greece; I refuse point blank to set foot on any train with graffiti. I detest it, and will go on record saying that I would be in favour of neutering graffiti "artists" so that they won't produce any more; and their parents!).

I just about got the end of the Majorca system when it was a "real" railway, but by that stage it only went to Inca. it's been extended back to Manacor now, with the Sa Pobla line reopened too - and talk (always "talk"!) of extending the reopening to Arta, where the 3ft track remains since the 1977 closure. We won't see the Santany and Felanitx branches again, though.........

Don't do the Circumvesuvio line to Sorrento then JB. No idea what the livery was as everything was completely obliterated! Great way to get around though.

[Midland Man]

Just now, Galteemore said:

As you know, it was as much about kudos as speed! Here’s a B17 that got the A4 treatment with no real operational justification ...

The hush hush ended up the same only hush hush is a 4-6-4.

 

[Mayner]

4 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

It's faintly ridiculous putting streamlining on locos normally operating at pedestrian speeds, like  NZ or Tasmanian Government Railways locos.

Maintaining locos is enough of a pain without useless panels to remove.

The majority of 1930s streamlining and speeding up of trains was mainly for marketing purpose by making the railways seem more modern to fight off road and air competition.

Narrow gauge NZ locomotive performance is not exactly pedestrian Minister, and NZR loco design and practice highly regarded by international commentators since the late 19th Century. 

While high speed running is not practicable on many routes, a Ja Class 4-8-2 is said to have reached 85mph across the Canterbury Plains on the "South Island Limited" and high speeds achievable in Canterbury and the more easily graded Southern (87miles) and Northern (124miles).

The enginemen and maintenance staff apparently hated the streamline  fairing on the boiler of the  J Class as dirt tended to collect on the top of the boiler creating very dirty conditions for the engine crews and anyone maintaining the locos.

Apparently senior management resisted removing the fairing despite union representation, until someone in authority noticed that the Class looked better without the fairing after fitters removed damaged fairing from one side of a loco to keep traffic moving during WW11.

 

 

 

 

Probably the most bizarre attempt at streamlining was when Tasmania's EMU Bay railway fitted a pair of small wheeled Edwardian 4-8-0s with smoke deflectors and fairing for its West Coaster motor rail service which operated between 1960 and 1964.

The train was introduced as an interim measure to cater for increasing tourist traffic to the West Coast, as there was no road access between the North and West Coasts of Tasmania until the opening of the Murchison Highway in 1965

The EMU Bay quickly went back to its normal business of hauling mineral traffic after the ending of the Coaster though No 8 is preserved in Zeehan on the West Coast a small wheeled narrow gauge version of a Highland Railway Castle 4-6-0

J15 186 with smoke deflectors and fairing anyone?

[mfjoc]

14 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I'd love to do Corsica - it's been a long-time interest of mine. But the good railcars are gone and they run "trains" now through modern graffiti-strewn halts (like Majorca) that look like a cheap form of Luas. Utterly uninteresting, but I'd like to see the line. (Like Italy and Greece; I refuse point blank to set foot on any train with graffiti. I detest it, and will go on record saying that I would be in favour of neutering graffiti "artists" so that they won't produce any more; and their parents!).

I just about got the end of the Majorca system when it was a "real" railway, but by that stage it only went to Inca. it's been extended back to Manacor now, with the Sa Pobla line reopened too - and talk (always "talk"!) of extending the reopening to Arta, where the 3ft track remains since the 1977 closure. We won't see the Santany and Felanitx branches again, though.........

I was in Corsica in 2014 walking the GR20 long distance trek with my daughter.

We went by train from Vizzavona to Corte on a rest day and then from Calvi to Bastia after completing it

The scenery everywhere is amazing. Yes, the old railcars had been replaced but the railway itself is still magnificent and well worth a visit.

[hexagon789]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Maybe a bit more low slung the NYC J3s streamlining inspired the streamlining of the NZR J 

 I wonder what an 800 Class or GNR Compound would have looked like with 1930s classical Streamling.

I suppose that would depend on where they took their inspiration from? Just so long as it wasn't the UK Great Western Railway, have you seen their utterly abominable attempt at the streamlining craze?

36 minutes ago, mfjoc said:

I was in Corsica in 2014 walking the GR20 long distance trek with my daughter.

We went by train from Vizzavona to Corte on a rest day and then from Calvi to Bastia after completing it

The scenery everywhere is amazing. Yes, the old railcars had been replaced but the railway itself is still magnificent and well worth a visit.

And still no faster nor more frequent in spite of their replacement!

The AM800s were supposed to give an improved service of eight to nine daily "rapides" taking 2hrs 30 Ajaccio-Bastia, yet I believe pre-Virus they were still using the previous 4 stoppers each-way 3hrs40-4hrs timetable.

The saving grace is more time to enjoy the scenery one could say!

 

3 hours ago, Galteemore said:

As you know, it was as much about kudos as speed! Here’s a B17 that got the A4 treatment with no real operational justification ...

It was to match a new set of coaching stock specially built for an improved East Anglian London-Ipswich-Norwich express.

[mphoey]

my top 5 was a hard choice 

1 j15 class my first memory of steam

2 071 class  have pulled everything

3 121 class  first locos i had cab rides in as a child

4 a class i remember them everywhere

5 the ncc jeep most useful engine in ireland can even work in the snow when others cant