Realistic Train Lengths

[StevieB]

One of the bugbears that we all have to put up with is a lack of space which invariably means running unrealistically short trains, both passenger and freight.

 

Ofcourse, a good many of Ireland's passenger trains out in the sticks are made up of only 1/2 carriages plus BGSV, but mainline passenger trains tend to be just a bit longer. Now if you search for Bradfield Gloucester Square on youtube you will find an extremely realistic model with workings based on Bradford Forster Square and where the mainline passenger trains are but five carriages long. That seems to work.

Translated to Ireland, that would mean that a passenger train made up of Mk2's would use the five carriage types produced by Murphy Models.

Dunno about Mk3's since they tend to be so much longer anyway.

 

With regard to freight trains, one trick is to use 4w wagons rather than bogie ones where possible.

 

Stephen

[snapper]

Until the full withdraw of loco hauled services some platforms were too short to accommodate a full length main line train, as a result some carriages used to be off the rear of the platform. This short platform, long train scenario could be used to make the train seem longer.

 

Also not all mainline trains were very long, long gone are the days of 13 coach Friday only specials, I have traveled from Limerick to Dublin on various setups

4 Push pull and loco (As far as I remember they were limited to a set of 6 anyway)

3 Mk 2s and a van

Short 6 piece Mk 3 sets

2 piece 2700 relief service

5 Piece Mk2 sets

[Broithe]

I can recall ticket collectors starting at the back of the train and giving advice to those with tickets to stations with short platforms to move a coach or two up, before attempting to disembark at their destination..

Edited October 17, 2014 by Broithe
Spelling!

[StevieB]

It's my experience that railway promoters tended to be very ambitious. The result was that most railways were over-engineered in the sense that they had more facilities than were ever used e.g. long platforms which is the very opposite to the point being made by snapper above. Either would inject an additional degree of realism into railway modelling.

 

Stephen

[Noel]

I designed our layout to accommodate 6 coach mainline trains for that very reason. Most full scale Dub-Cork trains were 8 coach rakes during 80s/90s. I remember having to be seated at one end of a train to get to the correct destination due to a train split on route at an intermediate stop. A waiting loco would take half the rake to a different destination.

[Mayner]

At one stage I converted to N gauge as an alternative to working in OO in a small space. By going for a spacious design, fitting in no more track and buildings than an equivalent space in OO, I was able to run 5-6 coach passenger and 15-20 wagon goods trains with reasonably large radius curves by gauge standards.

 

At the time moving to N was no disadvantage as there was little or no Irish rtr available and N gauge locos and stock better than contemporary OO.

 

I stayed with N rather than shifting up to HO when I my modelling interests shifted to American modelling, personally large diesels HO and long freight cars look totally wrong on tight radius curves.

[BosKonay]

I designed the platforms at amiens to take a full scale enterprise rake but it means the stationsand throat are just over 15 feet long.

[Mayner]

Its probably better to go for double track rather than single track and concentrate on one station when building a layout in a small space particulary if you can have a bridge as a view blocker at each end similar to Dalkey.

 

I gave up trying to fit Ballymoe a small Mayo Line two platform crossing station into a space 17' long, the two station and crossing loop took p nearly 10', the 3' radius approach curves on each end just did not look right for a station on a straight section of line in fairly open country

[patrick]

Establishing maximum train length and minimum radius were the first steps in the design prosess of my layout. A secondary cross country line theme was chosen because of shorter passenger trains. Most tracks in the fiddle yards (the layout is end to end) will accommodate a locomotive and four bogie coaches or eleven to twelve four wheel wagons. I agree with SteveB's point about using four wheel wagons. Eleven four wheel container flats look much more impressive than five or six 42' bogie flats. Longer freight trains would be nice but overall its an acceptable compromise.

[Riversuir226]

Freight wise the New Ross ferts ran up to New Ross as a full rake of 8 & then returned laden in rakes of 4. Over the years i ve seen a few weird rake lengths andwhats in them. For instance Cork to Cobh cravens x 2, park royal and genny, mk2's short rake Cork to Cobh. How about a grey 071 with a restaurant & egv? With both Waterfall and my other layout plan all sidings, passing loops are designed around rake sizes, Waterfall has a max rake length of a baby gm plus 4 cravens/mk2's which i feel is more than justified for a smallish station plus off course it matches various rakes that i ve seen over the years. Limerick to Ennis often ran with a baby gm/craven/gsv van.

Waterford also has a platform that is too small for some of its services .

Edited October 19, 2014 by Riversuir226

[Noel]

Yes I tend to agree. Two axel wagons and shorter 57-60ft coaches make for more realistic trains on model layouts given the space constraints. As regards freight traffic I live in the past and have no bogie freight stock on our layout nor container traffic - just too modern for my taste. I never saw such on Irish rails in the 60s and early 70s until the 'oribble Mk2 fisher price super train coaches arrived! It's old un-braked open coal wagons, short wheel base vans and cattle wagons for this model fan. Never will a Mk3 soil my model rails And never a rail car (i.e. characterless bus on rails) - in jest

[josefstadt]

And never a rail car (i.e. characterless bus on rails) - in jest

 

Yes, but what about those lovely 1950s AEC and BUT railcars? Not to mention the earlier articulated GNR(I) railcars and even the Drumm battery railcars - electrification without the knitting!

[Ben]

On the Sligo Line Mk 2 Set the Guard would announce over the Intercom.

The Next Stop is ............ Could all passengers ,Who wish to leave the train at the next stop .Please move up to the Front of the Train in Order to Reach The Platform ...

[Noel]

Yes, but what about those lovely 1950s AEC and BUT railcars? Not to mention the earlier articulated GNR(I) railcars and even the Drumm battery railcars - electrification without the knitting!

 

Yes I have to confess I have one BR Green DMU set circa 1950s. I suppose I'm referring to the 'oribble rail cars now running on IE rails, ugly buses that don't even make real train noises. Can't stick your head out a window, and even open the doors! (in jest - well a bit)

 

IMHO, Luas, Dart, 22k, 26/7/800 are not real trains - no locomotive, no sound, like a book lacking a beginning and an end - just a middle!

[leslie10646]

Yes, but what about those lovely 1950s AEC and BUT railcars? Not to mention the earlier articulated GNR(I) railcars and even the Drumm battery railcars - electrification without the knitting!

 

This quip is aimed at Noel, who is taking anti-diesel bigotry too far - mind you Noel, when I was timing steam trains in the 1960s, I hated the xxxxing railcars. However, while I thought I was safely hidden from view in Hong Kong, a "friend" "outed" me by handing round photos of my GN AEC set! 33Lima's work, by the way. His BUT set was just as good.

 

Getting back to the subject - steam age trains were much longer, in terms of NUMBER of coaches - the Dublin semi-fasts from Belfast were anything from four coaches to eight, or even nine. I am building my "Portadown" platforms to take eight coaches and a 4-4-0.

 

On the branches, you can get away with a coach and a van, whether in steam or diesel days, North or South.

 

Cork mainline trains were often great caravans of trains with TPOs, vans, restaurant cars etc etc.

 

No shortage of evidence in the books. For a cheap and cheerful guide buy the two volumes of Tom Ferris's "Irish Railways in Colour" which is available second hand for under a tenner each, usually. I probably take Tom's books down, from the shelves above my head as I sit here typing, more regularly than any others to check photographic "facts".

 

Long trains look great and most locos can pull ten coaches with relative ease.

[Noel]

Apologies, no offence was intended. My personal railway preferences are just that, my own only, and reflects my nostalgic enjoyment of GWR & LMS steam era model trains and Irish diesel loco hauled stock especially 60s & 70s which I travelled on so much. I just love the older prototypical track and train arrangements of yesteryear. Lots of wagon shunting in small goods sidings and GM locos running around trains. In relation to realistic train lengths it was not uncommon for a single coach to be hauled behind 0-6-0 on GWR branch lines push/pull. For mainline passenger services 5 coaches on a model layout seems a reasonable length if space permits.

 

Loved watching some of Michael Portillo's TV series on great railway journeys. Watching the short railcars stopping on some of the most scenic West Country, Welch and Scottish highland stations, with their long platforms and wonderful Victorian buildings, one can't help feeling nostalgic for the past trains and traffic such places enjoyed in their heyday. At least they are open and in use. I wouldn't complain about modern rail cars if trains were still running to places like Kinsale, Youghal, Foynes or Killaloe.

 

Does anybody know how many coaches were on the longest scheduled services between Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast? (Ie when coaches were shorter).

[minister_for_hardship]

I can recall ticket collectors starting at the back of the train and giving advice to those with tickets to stations with short platforms to move a coach or two up, before attempting to disembark at their destination..

 

Banteer was one location that had a short platform that reminders were given about.

[Junctionmad]

My own view is that train lengths on model railways have to be appropriate to the layout. Running trains that stick out miles beyond platforms looks wrong and especially where its fouls points and signals.

 

 

Hence there is no correct answer, unless your layout is a very accurate representation of the prototype, ( including station and track length ) then the question is moot. I suspect most modellers decide on train length based on the availability of stock rather then any other decider

[David Holman]

Iain Rice, in one of his many books on model railway design, came up with a 'rule' that I have always found appropriate. It is to ensure that what ever trains you have, they are able to travel at least three times their own length on your layout. Hence if you have a train one metre long, you ideally need a three metre run on your layout.

Therefore, on Arigna Town, with its four, equal length baseboards, the fiddle yard of 47 inches [old money] gives loco and six wagons which does not look out of place on the scenic section.

Have used this rule with several layouts and numerous plans & it really does work.