Jump to content
  • 0

Gradients

Rate this question


burnthebox
 Share

Question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

In practice not unless you were planning 2 or 3 coaches only.

 

From testing I did a few years back only heavy modern diesels could manage 4% gradients. Go with 2% if you want most things to manage it will decent length trains.

 

2% means that you will climb 2 inches every 100 inches or eight feet will clear about a two inch climb.

 

So you'd need a 16 foot climb to get 4 inches off the baseboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
In practice not unless you were planning 2 or 3 coaches only.

 

From testing I did a few years back only heavy modern diesels could manage 4% gradients. Go with 2% if you want most things to manage it will decent length trains.

 

2% means that you will climb 2 inches every 100 inches or eight feet will clear about a two inch climb.

 

So you'd need a 16 foot climb to get 4 inches off the baseboard.

 

Yup. Dave got in there before me. If you have space for a loop in the layout or a helix, that will keep your gradient lower. Alternatively, If you can drop the thing you wish to climb over, you can effectively half the gradient/length you need to climb (one climbs 2 inches, one drops two inches= 4 inches clearance)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

A straight gradient can be a small touch steeper than a curved one - it's a matter of making the best use of the space you have in terms of the relationships of straight to curved sections. I got away with lifting two and a half inches on an eight-foot long straight gradient with a double-bend entry to it. Trains would noticeably pick up a bit as the last wagons/carriages came off the (flat) bend and onto the slope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
What exactly do's this do, is it connected to track, or loco's

 

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCDCX-PBVP

 

That's the Powerbase system from DCC Concepts, its a series of metal plates you fit under the track, magnets are then fitted into the locos. The magnets give much better traction for the loco to climb. They work very well.

 

Here's a video on them

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
What exactly do's this do, is it connected to track, or loco's

 

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCDCX-PBVP

 

Basically, it increases the downforce from the loco to the track, without increasing its weight. Wheel-slip is the main mode of failure on a slope, rather than lack of power and this will raise the point at which slip occurs - allowing a steeper slope and/or longer trains...

 

Back in the old days of steel track, there was the Magnaforce system, which had a similar, though much less significant, effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I've just been round to where I made some ramps from a single sheet of hardboard - so, they are exactly eight feet long - and the rise is actually three and a quarter inches - more than I remembered. They were made to lift the track to go over a Hornby suspension bridge. We had no real problems with things going up there - certainly not with Murphy traction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
I've just been round to where I made some ramps from a single sheet of hardboard - so, they are exactly eight feet long - and the rise is actually three and a quarter inches - more than I remembered. They were made to lift the track to go over a Hornby suspension bridge. We had no real problems with things going up there - certainly not with Murphy traction.

 

Hi Broithe, only seeming your post now, anyway have you tried a steam loco go up that 8ft length & what type of loco, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or something else, & was it pulling anything, :tumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Hi Broithe, only seeming your post now, anyway have you tried a steam loco go up that 8ft length & what type of loco, 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or something else, & was it pulling anything, :tumbsup:

 

We mostly ran all-wheel-drive diesels - mostly my Murphy's - but, we also ran a tender-drive Flying Scotsman, with four coaches, including a post-office pick-up-and-drop coach - no trouble. The only thing that gave any real trouble was a seven car Pendelino, and that seemed to struggle mostly because of the double bend before the slope started - if it was all on the slope , it seemed to just manage. It tend to derail, actually, as the traction tyres were only on one side.

 

It's a simple enough issue to do some testing with a few planks before you commit yourself. Better safe than sorry

 

Do beware of tight bends an or near the slope, though. They do add to the rolling resistance.

 

We did run various old engine drive steamers, mostly six-coupled, never had any real issues with them, often pulling quite fair trains.

 

Do have the lowest slope you can get away with and try it experimentally first - that's the best advice I can give.

 

Some of the older engines required a small power increase to get up, and a bit of a turn-down after they had 'summitted', to avoid them 'running away' - Murphies and other more 'modern' types didn't really have much of an issue of that sort. All being run through Gaugemaster DC controllers.

 

You can see the journey over the ramps with a 141 pulling three coaches here - longer trains weren't much of an issue.

 

 

The ramps are at the back, immediately after the start - either side of the suspension bridge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Absolutely gobsmacking, I got lost just watching trains run on that totally mega layout of yours, but yes I did see the murphys go up the gradient with we, I for one didn't see any problems with it, I'll have about 9/10 ft of a run (when I get my layout) to use for the gradiient, which I feel should be enough,

many thanks,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
We mostly ran all-wheel-drive diesels - mostly my Murphy's - but, we also ran a tender-drive Flying Scotsman, with four coaches, including a post-office pick-up-and-drop coach - no trouble. The only thing that gave any real trouble was a seven car Pendelino, and that seemed to struggle mostly because of the double bend before the slope started - if it was all on the slope , it seemed to just manage. It tend to derail, actually, as the traction tyres were only on one side.

 

It's a simple enough issue to do some testing with a few planks before you commit yourself. Better safe than sorry

 

Do beware of tight bends an or near the slope, though. They do add to the rolling resistance.

 

We did run various old engine drive steamers, mostly six-coupled, never had any real issues with them, often pulling quite fair trains.

 

Do have the lowest slope you can get away with and try it experimentally first - that's the best advice I can give.

 

Some of the older engines required a small power increase to get up, and a bit of a turn-down after they had 'summitted', to avoid them 'running away' - Murphies and other more 'modern' types didn't really have much of an issue of that sort. All being run through Gaugemaster DC controllers.

 

You can see the journey over the ramps with a 141 pulling three coaches here - longer trains weren't much of an issue.

 

 

The ramps are at the back, immediately after the start - either side of the suspension bridge.

 

Wow how did I miss this. Only just spotted this layout video now after reading of Kirleys gradient wheel slip. Another wonderful layout that looks incredible fun to operate. I like the long runs and industrial feel. An amazing layout. The connection to the other room is really clever. Looks like you could almost operate as two separate layouts or one long one as per the video.

Edited by Noel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Wow how did I miss this. Only just spotted this layout video now after reading of Kirleys gradient wheel slip. Another wonderful layout that looks incredible fun to operate. I like the long runs and industrial feel. An amazing layout. The connection to the other room is really clever. Looks like you could almost operate as two separate layouts or one long one as per the video.

 

The point-work around the crossover in the door did allow separation of the two main ovals - and there were three places where the controllers could be plugged in to allow for this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Interesting solution, Broithe.... I ask because I'm in planning stage for a thing based on 1975-85 narrow gauge Austria....

Just in from work and just happened across this now. Well Done, Dave for posting this and Jim for the PDF. JB, I think this would be a great solution for any layout with gradients, especially a smaller layout where space may not be readily available to allow a long enough gradient even to get one track to climb over another even though this only requires a few inches. Great if this is done at the planning stage as you'd have to tear up sections of gradient to cure wheel slip otherwise. Tedious additional step to do this on a larger layout though if your were to do it, certainly would allow smaller engines to shunt longer trains

Edited by DiveController
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use