WRENNEIRE Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 One of the lads in the club, who does not want to become famous, appeared with this O Gauge jem last night He started work on her last week!!!!! An inside-cylinder 4-8-0T shunting locomotives. Intended for shunting at Dublin Kingsbridge (now Heuston) and for banking on the steep gradient out of Cork Glanmire Road (nowKent), the first locomotive emerged from the company's Inchicore workshops in 1915 and the second in 1924. They proved unsuccessful, being expensive to operate and unsuitable for sharp curves, and were withdrawn in 1928 and 1931 respectively. Quote
Garfield Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Lovely model! These locos looked like absolute beasts... I think they were converted to 4-6-2Ts before withdrawal. Edited February 24, 2015 by Garfield Typo Quote
DiveController Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Very nice job, indeed!. Is that scratchbuilt? Would be a lovely little kit in OO but I guess wouldn't have very broad appeal, I suspect Quote
islandbridgejct Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Typo there - they were converted to 4-6-2Ts. Mr Watson seemed to have trouble with his big engines. She looks very impressive. Have you any more pics? Quote
Garfield Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Typo there - they were converted to 4-6-2Ts. Mr Watson seemed to have trouble with his big engines. She looks very impressive. Have you any more pics? Typo indeed... better go fix that now! Quote
Mayner Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Typo there - they were converted to 4-6-2Ts. Mr Watson seemed to have trouble with his big engines. The odd thing is that 901 was built in 1924 after Watson's departure 9 years after 900. One of the theories is that some of the problems with Watson's locos arose as a result of friction between the Civil Engineers, the CME and the Chief Draftsman. One of the oddities is the speed with which the GSWR introduced the excellent 500 Class 4-6-0s so quickly after Watson's departure, were Bazin & Joyant working on the design when the boss was not looking? Quote
Weshty Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Built in a week? And it looks that good? That's what I call a gauntlet hitting the floor with great vim. Superb work, does he have one of those GM rivetting machines? Did he use a donor kit? That smokebox is just pure class. Quote
Warbonnet Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 If it's done by who I think did it he goes from scratch. Prolific is the word! Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Interesting point, Mayner - I never thought of that. Family recollections of Edgar Bredin were that he kept himself very much to himself, as did others of his colleagues. They seemed to go into the works, do their work and go home - certainly in my grandfather's time I got the impression that most of the drawing office and design people, and those among the most senior levels of management didn't seem to socialise. Maybe it's because there was no Copper Face Jack's or Temple Bar...... Quote
Warbonnet Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Interesting point, Mayner - I never thought of that. Family recollections of Edgar Bredin were that he kept himself very much to himself, as did others of his colleagues. They seemed to go into the works, do their work and go home - certainly in my grandfather's time I got the impression that most of the drawing office and design people, and those among the most senior levels of management didn't seem to socialise. Maybe it's because there was no Copper Face Jack's or Temple Bar...... Plenty of pubs in Inchicore though, Richmond House (McDowells), the Black Lion.... or was that too blue collar for them? Quote
Broithe Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Plenty of pubs in Inchicore though, Richmond House (McDowells), the Black Lion.... or was that too blue collar for them? Even in the 1970s, when I started at a large factory in England, there were five levels of canteen - more stratified than the Army... Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Plenty of pubs in Inchicore though, Richmond House (McDowells), the Black Lion.... or was that too blue collar for them? Familiarity breeds contempt. Quote
Warbonnet Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Familiarity breeds contempt. haha quite possibly. the Richmond House probably had too many Pats Fans in it. Maybe he was a Shels supporter. Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 There you have it; this is how historical research pans out. We now can be certain that Bazin, Bredin and McDonnell were Shels supporters, while Bullied was northside roaring "up the Dubs"!!!! ;-) Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 Cant figure that one out, JHB I think you gave too many of your maps away? Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Haha true, Wrenn, but they had a proper tam network back then... The "Leap" card was done with your legs too..... Talking of trams and city transport, I have some London General Omnibus tickets for sale - must photo them and post them up here.... Quote
islandbridgejct Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 The odd thing is that 901 was built in 1924 after Watson's departure 9 years after 900. One of the theories is that some of the problems with Watson's locos arose as a result of friction between the Civil Engineers, the CME and the Chief Draftsman. Friction is a terrible problem alright. Mind you I was expecting you to suggest it was in the axleboxes and cranks. I didn't think you were talking about the Big Ends. One of the oddities is the speed with which the GSWR introduced the excellent 500 Class 4-6-0s so quickly after Watson's departure, were Bazin & Joyant working on the design when the boss was not looking? I wonder why introduce a 2nd example of a class, only to scrap the first one 4 years later? Was that about the time Morton took over as CME, and was there a change of policy, or was it just the usual GSR inconsistency in withdrawals? Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 My gut feeling would be there could have been policy changes. Quote
Mayner Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 There seem to have been quite radical changes in motive power policy between Maunsell's depart to the SECR in 1913 & Morton's takeover in 1930 Maunsell had developed a proposal for a 3 cylinder 0-8-2T banking tank (perhaps an Irish equivalent of his SR Z Class) which was dropped in favour of the 900 Class A1. Building of futher Maunsell's excellent 341 Class 4-4-0s was dropped in favour of the 400Class 4-6-0s >It is rumoured that frames intended for additional 341 Class locos were used to rebuild the 321 Class locos in the 1920s Morton the MGWR CME although more senior was pipped for the GSR job by Bazin the GSWR CME with Morton as assistant. Bazin seems to have been opposed to superheating small and medium sized locos, but Morton was allowed free rein to continue the superheating of the 650 Class 2-4-0s at Broadstone. Morton reversed this policy with most GSWR & Midland standard classes superheated with a range of standard boilers from the 1930s to the end of steam. The scrapping of the 900s was unlikey to be a complete loss, boilers, wheels, motion were standard with other classes. Bazin Bazin Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Interesting........ Makes sense...... I had a document at one stage - may still have it somewhere - detailing the position about boilers in 1922. Even before the amalgamation and this standardisation, there was hardly a loco with its original boiler in Inchicore, so the idea of switch and swop was already there. Even little engines like "Sprite", "St Molaga" and the four J30s (90, 91, 92 and 100) were carrying boilers from each other. No. 90, for example, had had "Sprite"'s boiler installed following its rebuild in 1915. It may well still be carrying this in preservation. I've just remembered - senior mentioned once the there were very divided opinions on 900 at Inchicore. That would fit very well with Mayner's thoughts on the matter. Edited February 27, 2015 by jhb171achill Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Interesting........ Makes sense...... I had a document at one stage - may still have it somewhere - detailing the position about boilers in 1922. Even before the amalgamation and this standardisation, there was hardly a loco with its original boiler in Inchicore, so the idea of switch and swop was already there. Even little engines like "Sprite", "St Molaga" and the four J30s (90, 91, 92 and 100) were carrying boilers from each other. No. 90, for example, had had "Sprite"'s boiler installed following its rebuild in 1915. It may well still be carrying this in preservation. There would be a good bit of standardisation in the GS&WR, so components were freely interchangeable between certain locos. But how did they manage swapping boilers with clearly 'unrelated' locos, or were there standards there too? Think St Molaga got the boiler off one of the DSER former railmotors...or was it Argadeen that got it? Edited February 27, 2015 by minister_for_hardship Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It could have been, minister, I can't remember. In terms of GSWR standardisation, they were a lot better organised than might be obvious, but after the amalgamation they had to deal with all sorts! When Sprite's boiler was installed in 90, several other swops took place at the same time. I must try to find the details. Quote
Mayner Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It could have been, minister, I can't remember. In terms of GSWR standardisation, they were a lot better organised than might be obvious, but after the amalgamation they had to deal with all sorts! When Sprite's boiler was installed in 90, several other swops took place at the same time. I must try to find the details. The classic was the re-boilering of DSER 2-4-2T, 4-4-2T & 0-6-0 with GSWR boilers and later the development of the X superheated boiler that could be made to fit the GSWR 52 Class 4-4-0, ex-Midland 530 Achill Bogie 4-4-0, 566 C Class 4-4-0 & 563, 567, 594, & 614 "Standard Good" 0-6-0s While there was a lot of focus on the high average age and number of types in the GSR loco fleet. The introduction of the Woolwich Moguls, Midland Cattle engines and 400 & 500 class 4-6-0s against a background of falling traffic lead to a surplus of large modern main line locomotives that were too heavy to run on secondary lines. This may have lead to the scrapping of 3 of the recently introduced but problematic 400 Class 4-6-0, ex-MGWR 646 Class 0-6-0 and the partial decimation of the ex GSWR 321 4-4-0 & 355 & 368 2-6-0 while the majority of the 3 Classes were modernised and worked on top link services until the end of steam The 5 342 Class mixed traffic 4-4-0s introduced in 1936 almost seem to have been intended to replace the 341 & the Coey 4-4-0s scrapped in the late 1920s. It almost looks like the 800 were intended to replace the scrapped 400 Class, restoring the number of express passenger locos to 10, releasing the 500 Class to take up their intended mixed traffic duties, releasing Woolwich for work elsewhere Quote
leslie10646 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Returning to the model, for a moment. The late Drew Donaldson had a model of one of these 4-8-0Ts, built to his usual amazing standard and powered, of course, by a clockwork motor! I can't remember if it was ever used to bank trains out of "Kingsbridge" on the layout (it WAS uphill and the trains were scale length). My memory is that it was used to shunt the yard! I must look at my photos of Drew's collection which you can see at Cultra, to see if it survived to be displayed. Leslie Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Found this yoke being started last night Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Found this yoke being started last night Should morph into one of these soon Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 A scratchbuilt work of art. The builder is an artist! Quote
Garfield Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 That looks fab! Does the builder have any plans to make any diesels, or is he a committed steam man? Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 That looks fab! Does the builder have any plans to make any diesels, or is he a committed steam man? He was running a scratchbuilt C class last night. Has a very nice E too which you would love! Quote
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