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Gswr 4-8-0t

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WRENNEIRE
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One of the lads in the club, who does not want to become famous, appeared with this O Gauge jem last night

He started work on her last week!!!!!

 

 

2015-02-20195543_zpscb7f3779.jpg

 

 

An inside-cylinder 4-8-0T shunting locomotives. Intended for shunting at Dublin Kingsbridge (now Heuston) and for banking on the steep gradient out of Cork Glanmire Road (nowKent), the first locomotive emerged from the company's Inchicore workshops in 1915 and the second in 1924. They proved unsuccessful, being expensive to operate and unsuitable for sharp curves, and were withdrawn in 1928 and 1931 respectively.

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Typo there - they were converted to 4-6-2Ts.

 

Mr Watson seemed to have trouble with his big engines.

 

 

The odd thing is that 901 was built in 1924 after Watson's departure 9 years after 900. One of the theories is that some of the problems with Watson's locos arose as a result of friction between the Civil Engineers, the CME and the Chief Draftsman.

 

One of the oddities is the speed with which the GSWR introduced the excellent 500 Class 4-6-0s so quickly after Watson's departure, were Bazin & Joyant working on the design when the boss was not looking?

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Interesting point, Mayner - I never thought of that.

 

Family recollections of Edgar Bredin were that he kept himself very much to himself, as did others of his colleagues. They seemed to go into the works, do their work and go home - certainly in my grandfather's time I got the impression that most of the drawing office and design people, and those among the most senior levels of management didn't seem to socialise.

 

Maybe it's because there was no Copper Face Jack's or Temple Bar......

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Interesting point, Mayner - I never thought of that.

 

Family recollections of Edgar Bredin were that he kept himself very much to himself, as did others of his colleagues. They seemed to go into the works, do their work and go home - certainly in my grandfather's time I got the impression that most of the drawing office and design people, and those among the most senior levels of management didn't seem to socialise.

 

Maybe it's because there was no Copper Face Jack's or Temple Bar......

 

Plenty of pubs in Inchicore though, Richmond House (McDowells), the Black Lion.... or was that too blue collar for them? :ROFL:

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The odd thing is that 901 was built in 1924 after Watson's departure 9 years after 900. One of the theories is that some of the problems with Watson's locos arose as a result of friction between the Civil Engineers, the CME and the Chief Draftsman.

 

Friction is a terrible problem alright. Mind you I was expecting you to suggest it was in the axleboxes and cranks. I didn't think you were talking about the Big Ends.

 

One of the oddities is the speed with which the GSWR introduced the excellent 500 Class 4-6-0s so quickly after Watson's departure, were Bazin & Joyant working on the design when the boss was not looking?

 

 

I wonder why introduce a 2nd example of a class, only to scrap the first one 4 years later? Was that about the time Morton took over as CME, and was there a change of policy, or was it just the usual GSR inconsistency in withdrawals?

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There seem to have been quite radical changes in motive power policy between Maunsell's depart to the SECR in 1913 & Morton's takeover in 1930

 

Maunsell had developed a proposal for a 3 cylinder 0-8-2T banking tank (perhaps an Irish equivalent of his SR Z Class) which was dropped in favour of the 900 Class A1.

 

Building of futher Maunsell's excellent 341 Class 4-4-0s was dropped in favour of the 400Class 4-6-0s >It is rumoured that frames intended for additional 341 Class locos were used to rebuild the 321 Class locos in the 1920s

 

Morton the MGWR CME although more senior was pipped for the GSR job by Bazin the GSWR CME with Morton as assistant. Bazin seems to have been opposed to superheating small and medium sized locos, but Morton was allowed free rein to continue the superheating of the 650 Class 2-4-0s at Broadstone.

 

Morton reversed this policy with most GSWR & Midland standard classes superheated with a range of standard boilers from the 1930s to the end of steam.

 

The scrapping of the 900s was unlikey to be a complete loss, boilers, wheels, motion were standard with other classes.

 

 

 

 

Bazin

 

 

Bazin

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Interesting........ Makes sense......

 

I had a document at one stage - may still have it somewhere - detailing the position about boilers in 1922. Even before the amalgamation and this standardisation, there was hardly a loco with its original boiler in Inchicore, so the idea of switch and swop was already there. Even little engines like "Sprite", "St Molaga" and the four J30s (90, 91, 92 and 100) were carrying boilers from each other. No. 90, for example, had had "Sprite"'s boiler installed following its rebuild in 1915. It may well still be carrying this in preservation.

 

I've just remembered - senior mentioned once the there were very divided opinions on 900 at Inchicore. That would fit very well with Mayner's thoughts on the matter.

Edited by jhb171achill
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Interesting........ Makes sense......

 

I had a document at one stage - may still have it somewhere - detailing the position about boilers in 1922. Even before the amalgamation and this standardisation, there was hardly a loco with its original boiler in Inchicore, so the idea of switch and swop was already there. Even little engines like "Sprite", "St Molaga" and the four J30s (90, 91, 92 and 100) were carrying boilers from each other. No. 90, for example, had had "Sprite"'s boiler installed following its rebuild in 1915. It may well still be carrying this in preservation.

 

 

There would be a good bit of standardisation in the GS&WR, so components were freely interchangeable between certain locos. But how did they manage swapping boilers with clearly 'unrelated' locos, or were there standards there too? Think St Molaga got the boiler off one of the DSER former railmotors...or was it Argadeen that got it?

Edited by minister_for_hardship
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It could have been, minister, I can't remember.

 

In terms of GSWR standardisation, they were a lot better organised than might be obvious, but after the amalgamation they had to deal with all sorts! When Sprite's boiler was installed in 90, several other swops took place at the same time. I must try to find the details.

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It could have been, minister, I can't remember.

 

In terms of GSWR standardisation, they were a lot better organised than might be obvious, but after the amalgamation they had to deal with all sorts! When Sprite's boiler was installed in 90, several other swops took place at the same time. I must try to find the details.

 

The classic was the re-boilering of DSER 2-4-2T, 4-4-2T & 0-6-0 with GSWR boilers and later the development of the X superheated boiler that could be made to fit the GSWR 52 Class 4-4-0, ex-Midland 530 Achill Bogie 4-4-0, 566 C Class 4-4-0 & 563, 567, 594, & 614 "Standard Good" 0-6-0s

 

While there was a lot of focus on the high average age and number of types in the GSR loco fleet. The introduction of the Woolwich Moguls, Midland Cattle engines and 400 & 500 class 4-6-0s against a background of falling traffic lead to a surplus of large modern main line locomotives that were too heavy to run on secondary lines. This may have lead to the scrapping of 3 of the recently introduced but problematic 400 Class 4-6-0, ex-MGWR 646 Class 0-6-0 and the partial decimation of the ex GSWR 321 4-4-0 & 355 & 368 2-6-0 while the majority of the 3 Classes were modernised and worked on top link services until the end of steam

 

The 5 342 Class mixed traffic 4-4-0s introduced in 1936 almost seem to have been intended to replace the 341 & the Coey 4-4-0s scrapped in the late 1920s. It almost looks like the 800 were intended to replace the scrapped 400 Class, restoring the number of express passenger locos to 10, releasing the 500 Class to take up their intended mixed traffic duties, releasing Woolwich for work elsewhere

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Returning to the model, for a moment.

 

The late Drew Donaldson had a model of one of these 4-8-0Ts, built to his usual amazing standard and powered, of course, by a clockwork motor! I can't remember if it was ever used to bank trains out of "Kingsbridge" on the layout (it WAS uphill and the trains were scale length). My memory is that it was used to shunt the yard!

 

I must look at my photos of Drew's collection which you can see at Cultra, to see if it survived to be displayed.

 

Leslie

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