Symphony in "A", July 1975, Drogheda.

[jhb171achill]

 

When I saw it, and a black'n'tan 141 in the same place, I thought they had white-rimmed wheels. It was actually gypsum dust from the half-buried sidings at kingscourt!

[WRENNEIRE]

Something a little different

 

[jhb171achill]

Excellent! The symphony continues...... More than a few locos got the "set of points" logo, some front only replacing the CIE one, some sides as well, BEFORE they also got the "tippex" stripes. This applied to all extant classes of locos. The last "C"'s had been withdrawn a year or two earlier, so none of them ever got a "set of points" let alone tippex; I always thought that such a thing would have looked well.

[Irishrailwayman]

I understand that the A's got as far as IR logos with tippex but not the IE logo...

[GSR 800]

As far as they could possibly get before.....their scrapping

Wonder if the A in the 201 livery was given the new logo?

[Garfield]

Wonder if the A in the 201 livery was given the new logo?

 

It had a large version of the points logo. It was only used to see what the 201 livery would look like before it was scrapped - it never ran in that livery (one cab wasn't repainted either).

[jhb171achill]

I understand that the A's got as far as IR logos with tippex but not the IE logo...

 

Correct.

[DJM Dave]

I love the look of this loco, it reminds me of the 'sad eyes' the UK's class 21,22,29 and D600 classes had.

 

Almost a downtrodden look.

Loved the lone up of them, where was that taken?

Cheers

Dave

[Glenderg]

Loved the lone up of them, where was that taken?

Cheers

Dave

 

Taken in Inchicore, Dublin Dave, the main works depot in Ireland. One of the sidings to the rear of the complex that is inaccessible but to the lucky few!

[jhb171achill]

Dave, one is fully restored and opeational on the Downpatrick & Co Down Railway, this being A39. A55 is static in Hells Kitchen pub in Castlerea, Co Roscommon, and the Irish Traction Group has A3 and A15 in store. The other 54 were scrapped.

[David Holman]

Splendid. Early diesels seem to have much more character, especially as models, though doesn't excuse what they got rid of!

[jhb171achill]

The "A" class farewell - was it 1996/7? - I can't remember - with A39 on that fantastic day out along the South Wexford, before departure to Limerick Junction from Waterford, in the days before our oldest city list its railway station to replacement by a user-unfriendly halt...

 

For modellers - if the body is silver, so should be the chassis and roof. Also there would be no "fangs" on the buffer beam, or double headlight on cab roof.

 

That was a great day out - many here, I know, were also on it.

 

[DiveController]

there would be no "fangs" on the buffer beam, or double headlight on cab roof.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23317[/ATTACH]

 

What are the 'Fangs"and when were they fitted? The A's didn't always have a double headlight?

[GSR 800]

What are the 'Fangs"and when were they fitted? The A's didn't always have a double headlight?

 

Not sure what the fangs are, but no they didn't always have headlights, they acquired them after their rebuilding.

[DiveController]

I think you're right. Just found some very old photos of them without them online. The rebuild were not until about ten years later I think. Steam loco didn't I suppose, so same with early diesel, I presume. WHat did they see with, a couple of oil lamp on the buffer beam?

[jhb171achill]

When built, the "A" and "C" classes had NO lights at all above windows, and smaller marker lights. They date from the steam era, when the only light was an oil lamp attached to the front. People were expected to know to avoid trains; the idea that they must almost be floodlit (like today) was a concept for the distant future.

 

The double headlights date from rebuilding days, thus a model of an "A" or "C" in silver livery, green or early black should not have them at all.

[Garfield]

The fangs are found only at the end where the CAWS equipment is located. You can just make out a bar running parallel to the buffer beam just above the rails; this is the antenna. I think the fangs are just there to protect the brackets holding it in place from being damaged.

[jhb171achill]

Tis indeed the case, Garfield. Or something like that; I've been told the exact details in the distant past, but I've forgotten.

[DiveController]

When built, the "A" and "C" classes had NO lights at all above windows, and smaller marker lights. They date from the steam era, when the only light was an oil lamp attached to the front. People were expected to know to avoid trains; the idea that they must almost be floodlit (like today) was a concept for the distant future.

 

The double headlights date from rebuilding days, thus a model of an "A" or "C" in silver livery, green or early black should not have them at all.

I remember a picture being assembled presumably at MV in Manchester without lights but I guess I assumed they were about to be added! Remiss of me not to have noticed the lack of headlights!

 

The fangs are found only at the end where the CAWS equipment is located. You can just make out a bar running parallel to the buffer beam just above the rails; this is the antenna. I think the fangs are just there to protect the brackets holding it in place from being damaged.

Yes, I see the bar, now:tumbsup:

Antenna at one end wired to both cabs, I presume

Edited March 20, 2016 by DiveController

[Garfield]

Yes, I see the bar, now:tumbsup:

Antenna at one end wired to both cabs, I presume

 

Spot on.

[jhb171achill]

I remember a picture being assembled presumably at MV in Manchester without lights but I guess I assumed they were about to be added!

 

 

 

Yes, Dive, they ran like that throughout silver, green and black eras. Barry Carse's "Metrovicks" book will clarify. Same with the "C" class.

[DiveController]

I've seen some in the black era with headlight but I think they'd been rebuilt at that point.

As it happens, I have a copy on the way already!

Edited March 20, 2016 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

Brilliant - you'll find that book an excellent resource.

 

You'll get pictures in black'n'tan (a la A39 as it is now on the DCDR) with headlights, but not in all-black, or black with yellow ends. The earliest pictures I've ever seen WITH headlights is ONE of the "C"'s rebuilt as "B"'s (not the other!) and that was 1969. I can't be 100% certain, but I'd be 99% certain that no "C" or "A" had headlights before it was re-engined. You're right about the one you saw having already been rebuilt, though it would have by then acquired either the full tan side, or the "low" tan band; both were applied to rebuilds.

 

Thus: silver, green, all-black, black with yellow ends, and SOME black'n'tan: no headlights.

WITH headlights: black'n'tan, "supertrain" and "tippex" IE.

[josefstadt]

Brilliant - you'll find that book an excellent resource.

 

You'll get pictures in black'n'tan (a la A39 as it is now on the DCDR) with headlights, but not in all-black, or black with yellow ends. The earliest pictures I've ever seen WITH headlights is ONE of the "C"'s rebuilt as "B"'s (not the other!) and that was 1969. I can't be 100% certain, but I'd be 99% certain that no "C" or "A" had headlights before it was re-engined. You're right about the one you saw having already been rebuilt, though it would have by then acquired either the full tan side, or the "low" tan band; both were applied to rebuilds.

 

Thus: silver, green, all-black, black with yellow ends, and SOME black'n'tan: no headlights.

WITH headlights: black'n'tan, "supertrain" and "tippex" IE.

 

Have to agree JHB, Barry's book is indeed a fantastic resource. As you say headlights only were fitted with the re-engining programmes. Thus A class and C class no headlights, Ar and B201 classes with headlights.

[BSGSV]

When CAWS was fitted to the locos in the early 1980's, the locomotive receivers were mounted on brackets under the bufferbeam, each end. As these were ahead of the lifeguards, they were prone to damage as they would be first to hit any ballast etc. sitting on the rails. The solution adopted after about 6-7 years, was to fit the the large metal framework supported from the bufferbeams, JHB's "fangs". None of the "C" class got the framework, and not all "A" class either, as some were already withdrawn.

 

The headlights were fitted as part of the "transplant" project, as were the additional roof boxes beside the air vents, to accommodate the air intake/Roots blowers on the new engines, two on the "A", one on the "C". The "C" class also got larger radiators.

 

Barry's book is indeed a pleasure, and I am looking forward to his and JHB's upcoming book on the North Kerry, as their last collaboration on the West contained a splendid collection of photographs and commentary.

Edited March 21, 2016 by BSGSV

[jhb171achill]

Many thanks, BSGSV. It's actually been with the publisher since last May, and effectively "in a queue" awaiting publication. I'm afraid I delayed it an initial few months as we came across just three extra photos which I felt were a MUST to include. These weren't Barry's (before his time) and I had copies but was unsure who owned the copyright - obviously they would have to be asked for permission. Thankfully the copyright owner was not only happy to do so, he told me I could use anything of his stuff in any future publication.

 

All things being equal, I'm hoping it'll be ready for the RPSI May Tour (might do a mini-launch) and the accompanying Friday 071 trip. Fingers crossed....

 

With encouragement from another character who would be well know to many here, I'm working on another album of slightly earlier times. This will hopefully have as much dirty silver, late steam and green as it will have black'n'tan. The only thing is that the photos are not of the same quality, and I have already rejected out of hand some which despite Photoshopping within an inch of their lives, have deteriorated beyond redemption. A pity, because the subject matter (e.g. Banagher, Tullow) is interesting. Some black and white will feature in this one too.

 

I'll update here when I've anything beyond the above to report!

Edited March 21, 2016 by jhb171achill

[josefstadt]

All things being equal, I'm hoping it'll be ready for the RPSI May Tour (might do a mini-launch) and the accompanying Friday 071 trip. Fingers crossed....

 

 

With encouragement from another character who would be well know to many here, I'm working on another album of slightly earlier times. This will hopefully have as much dirty silver, late steam and green as it will have black'n'tan. The only thing is that the photos are not of the same quality, and I have already rejected out of hand some which despite Photoshopping within an inch of their lives, have deteriorated beyond redemption. A pity, because the subject matter (e.g. Banagher, Tullow) is interesting. Some black and white will feature in this one too.

 

:drool:

[Eiretrains]

On the subject of headlights, unlike the common fleet of re-engined C Class locomotives, it is less well known that locomotive 233 (re-engined with the Maybach)survived well into the Supertrain livery era without equipped with the GM headlight, it is peculiar sight to see it in the Supertrain colours with a notable clear space above the windows; the headlight only appeared on 233 when it finally got its GM engine in 1980. I am unsure if its sister engine 234 had a similar appearance but she was re-engined the previous year in 1979.

[jhb171achill]

Indeed, Eiretrains, forgot to mention that. That was the only locomotive WITH "supertrain" livery, but WITHOUT those lights!

 

It should also be of interest to modellers to be aware that the latter day marker lights are way bigger than the originals. I'm not sure of exact dates (maybe someone here will know) but the marker lights as on 071s now, only came into use maybe in the early 1990s. This obviously applies to the other GMs as well.

[josefstadt]

Again, Barry Carse's book is a great source of photographic information on the Maybach-engined - B233 (p 36), 233 (p 11) and 234 (p 6). The photos on pages 6 and 11 show the two locomotives in the CIÉ Supertrain livery, while the one on page 36 shows B233 in the black livery with yellow warning panel below and white chevron above the front windows. The chevron is noticeably slimmer and pointier at the top when compared to those on the GM engine locomotives, where the white area had to accommodate the headlight.

 

A point of interest is that the circular porthole window at the No.2 end on the right-hand side, which was there in C class days, is blanked off on both locomotives. On the other hand, locomotives which were re-engined with GM engines retained this window. Did the window re-appear on 233 and 234 when they were fitted with GM engines?

[Noel]

The more I read threads like this one and the more old pics of A and C classes I see, the more I sort of half wish MM were releasing an A class in the next 12 months rather than the 121. For anybody over 50 it was the most iconic and numerous loco to haul Irish trains from the mid 50s right through the 80s and at one time the backbone of the CIE era. I'm guessing some manufacturer might well produce it in the future!

[jhb171achill]

Not sure, josefstadt.... worth investigating....

[Warbonnet]

The more I read threads like this one and the more old pics of A and C classes I see, the more I sort of half wish MM were releasing an A class in the next 12 months rather than the 121. For anybody over 50 it was the most iconic and numerous loco to haul Irish trains from the mid 50s right through the 80s and at one time the backbone of the CIE era. I'm guessing some manufacturer might well produce it in the future!

 

You never know

[Junctionmad]

You never know

 

Omg, a rumour is started

[Warbonnet]

Omg' date=' a rumour is started [/quote']

 

One day, maybe. Plenty to focus on first like our current projects and whatever comes up in the meantime. And sure MM may surprise us yet. I personally can't wait to see the 121s myself.