GNR and GSR goods vans in 1970s CIE use.

[jhb171achill]

These were indiscriminately mixed with CIE "H" vans in traffic. Vans of this type had "N" after the number, both stencilled on the side AND on the CIE cast chassis plate, e.g. 111N which is one of these.

 

 

 

 

These vans dated from 1954, among the last built by the GNR(B) and just a few years older than the "H" vans. Also to be seen among them well into the seventies were the last few of the distinctive GSR inside framed goods vans, designed by jhb171senior's senior.

 

 

....and for comparison, a standard "H".

 

[popeye]

Great pictures, all the right way up.

[jhb171achill]

Great pictures, all the right way up.

 

I was standing on my head when I took them, popeye.......

[DiveController]

Vans of this type had "N" after the number, both stencilled on the side AND on the CIE cast chassis plate, e.g. 111N which is one of these.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23062[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23063[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23064[/ATTACH]

Is there a good reference book for these older stock? Pender & Richards (1967) refer succinctly to 138 16T covered wagons on steel under frames built between 1954-1956 by GNR(I) for cement traffic. Are these the wagons being referred to?

 

The H van series were CIE Covered Wagons numbered 18862-19753, 19269 in JB's photo. 892 were built between 1958-1962! Amazing that such a prolific wagon has not been produced as an rtr!

 

As an aside, someone posted a late 1970s? 266XX? TANK wagon for MOLASSES in the last week, and I have been going crazy trying to locate it. If anybody remembers what I'm talking about would you please PM me so I can delete this request. Thank you!

Edited March 2, 2016 by DiveController

[minister_for_hardship]

 

Can any of the savants tell me what this could be?

 

Grounded in Drimoleague. Quite small, pre-GSR perhaps?

[jhb171achill]

Looks narrow gauge, but it isn't Schull & Skib.

 

It looks like one of a number of goods vans built by the GSR for the West Clare in the late 1920s.

[leslie10646]

Kevin

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a reference book, but no-one has published a book on Irish wagons.

 

I did three runs of the 16 ton van - which are very close to the Dapol Banana van - so there are about 500 of these vans on various layouts. I was thinking of doing another run, maybe in the 1970s CIE guise?

 

Anyway, I have the full number list of such wagons, in my copy of the GNR Wagon Book.

 

I'm afraid that wagon info is dotted all over the place. I know that the IRRS Archive has a copy of the GNR Wagon Book, but as for CIE, or GSR, I'll have to investigate.

 

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

I'm afraid I'm unaware of any comprehensive record of GSR numbering in the IRRS. I've been through a lot of stuff in there over the years, though by no means all. Next time I'm in, I'll make a few enquiries.

[DiveController]

Many thanks, both of you. Leslie. I'll look on your site again. I forgot about that. Yes, would be interested in the CIE version if you did it

[jhb171achill]

Just a question to manufacturers: since model wagons, of all types, seem to come from makers with default black chassis (almost never appropriate for Ireland), do the models made specially for here? In other words, do they come with the plastic of the chassis the same colour as the body, or is it up to the buyer to paint it to match?

 

I'm thinking maybe the manufacturers have no choice but to buy chassis elsewhere all in black?

[Glenderg]

On cheap models, the chassis is a plastic colour and the various codes (brake test etc.) and running numbers are tampo printed on. It's no longer recommended to do it this way as the printing will come off over time. The right way (the way IRM are doing it) is to paint the body and chassis, and then print the decals, even if the paint is the same colour as the plastic, seal it, then assemble.

 

You could see how the cost would climb to make each part, paint it, let it dry, and only then assemble the separately painted body and chassis. It triples the workload involved, and the resulting price. It's just down to cost.

 

R.

[jhb171achill]

Fair enough, Glenderg, just wondering. Thanks for clarifying.

[DiveController]

The GN wagon seems to have lost its CIE "N" suffix. Any ideas what 181AX means. The X may be for scrapping. "A" would have been of GSWR origin which it's not, correct:confused:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23063[/ATTACH]

 

 

I was also wondering about the "C" on this van

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23064[/ATTACH]

 

 

And the significance of 248X on the GSR van

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23065[/ATTACH]

Edited March 5, 2016 by DiveController

[Glenderg]

A is Departmental, X for scrapping, perhaps?

[patrick]

[quote

 

I was also wondering about the "C" on this van

 

The C appeared in the very last days of the loose coupled goods era and was I believe painted on wagons intended for bagged cement traffic.

[jhb171achill]

All three of those designations "X" = scrap and "C" = condemned, were added after (recent) withdraw and have no relevance to the running numbers or company origin. They are something like lot numbers for scrapping.

[patrick]

All three of those designations "X" = scrap and "C" = condemned, were added after (recent) withdraw and have no relevance to the running numbers or company origin. They are something like lot numbers for scrapping.

 

I remember seeing vans still in service in Tralee with the C painted on, rather like the B on opens for beet service.

[jhb171achill]

The "C" ones would have had their days very numbered indeed - in a train, they were probably en route to wherever they were going to be scrapped. In 1977/8, Templemore and Thurles sidings were full of them, as were Cork and Limerick.

[StevieB]

It's probably been asked before but did the GNRI vans have RCH or Morton brakes? The difference between the two is subtle but it's important to put the right underframe under the Dapol banana van in order to produce the GNRI van.

Many thanks.

 

Stephen

[Mayner]

It's probably been asked before but did the GNRI vans have RCH or Morton brakes? The difference between the two is subtle but it's important to put the right underframe under the Dapol banana van in order to produce the GNRI van.

Many thanks.

 

Stephen

 

The GNR (I) 16T cement wagons, CIE Pallet Vans had RCH brake gear.

 

I am not sure if anyone does a rtr 10' wb chassis with this form of brake gear.

[StevieB]

John

 

Thanks for that.

Parkside Dundas do kits for both the RCH and Morton fitted brake underframes, so I'm in luck.

Incidentally, the Parkside Dundas kit for the BR Palvan has the Morton underframe - more changes needed.

 

Stephen

[dave182]

Just reviving this post as I do a bit of research. Can anyone confirm when 2-axle box vans, like the ones in the pictures at the start of this thread, were finally officially taken out of service? I'm thinking bagged cement must have been their final freight flow? Maybe some departmental PWD use into the 80's?

And again, any further clarification on the markings?

X, scrap

C, I believe Cement is more likely, as we have B on the Beets and D on the diesel tanks

V and V with strike-through? 

Trying to establish if any flows made it into the 80's with these vans

 

[Galteemore]

V for vacuum? 

[dave182]

@Galteemore of course! V for vacuum makes sense!

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, dave182 said:

Just reviving this post as I do a bit of research. Can anyone confirm when 2-axle box vans, like the ones in the pictures at the start of this thread, were finally officially taken out of service? I'm thinking bagged cement must have been their final freight flow? Maybe some departmental PWD use into the 80's?

And again, any further clarification on the markings?

X, scrap

C, I believe Cement is more likely, as we have B on the Beets and D on the diesel tanks

V and V with strike-through? 

Trying to establish if any flows made it into the 80's with these vans

 

The X, C & V markings were only applied to withdrawn stock.

None of the wagons marked with a V in JHBs photo were fitted with vacuum brakes.

I don't know if the V had a specific meaning.  Possibly to indicate a vehicle that's with withdrawn and not to be used in service.

C or Cond in the UK condemned.

Some ex-GN vans were lettered "Cement Only" "Return to Drogheda" in  (what looks like 4") stencil letters.

CIEs fleet of covered H vans (hard top) were gradually run down and withdrawn from service during the mid 70s.

Cement Traffic was palletised following the introduction of the Pallet Cement wagons in 76.

Dublin-Tralee freight services CIEs last traditional goods train went over to Liner operation in 1978 after a coupling broke on a wagon while climbing the Gullet and the rear of the train ran back into Heuston Station.

I don't think any H vans ran in revenue service into the 80s, the H Vans from an empty Dundalk-Kilkenny keg train were stored at North Wharf Waterford yard awaiting scrapping during the late 70s.

Mullingar was kept busy scrapping redundant H Vans into the early 80s. 

[seagoebox]

"V" was painted on a wagon when it was listed for scrapping, an upside down "V" was painted on below the first "V" to turn it into an "X" which meant that scrapping was then authorised.

The instruction was then given to the scrap man to scrap only vehicles marked with an "X"

I remember a story about a scrap merchant from Armagh engaged on cutting up A & C classes in Inchicore cutting locos with a "V" before parts had been recovered to keep others going !

[Mayner]

29 minutes ago, seagoebox said:

"V" was painted on a wagon when it was listed for scrapping, an upside down "V" was painted on below the first "V" to turn it into an "X" which meant that scrapping was then authorised.

The instruction was then given to the scrap man to scrap only vehicles marked with an "X"

I remember a story about a scrap merchant from Armagh engaged on cutting up A & C classes in Inchicore cutting locos with a "V" before parts had been recovered to keep others going !

I visited Inchacore in 92-3 our Guide was extremely pissed off about the cutting of A Class bogies with recoverable components.

There was a similar story after NZR was privitised during the early 90s, the new owners went on a scrap drive to boost dividends clearing out stored and some in-service locos and stock. The PWD suddenly found themselves short of ballast wagons and other essential non-revenue stock.

[jhb171achill]

On 17/2/2023 at 6:40 PM, dave182 said:Can anyone confirm when 2-axle box vans, like the ones in the pictures at the start of this thread, were finally officially taken out of service? I'm thinking bagged cement must have been their final freight flow? Maybe some departmental PWD use into the 80's?

 

Trying to establish if any flows made it into the 80's with these vans

 

The last uses of these vans - I.E. loose-coupled goods trains in general - was, I believe, either 1976 or 1977.