From the Catacombs

[jhb171achill]

45 minutes ago, Noel said:

Interesting photo above of the Craven marshalled up to a mk3 in a storage siding with a dutch GSV on the other side.

Things were just stored there at  that time. The RPSI set often lived around there for a while.

[minister_for_hardship]

I think all bets are off with a looming recession on the way. 

[Noel]

 

[jhb171achill]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 8:02 AM, David Holman said:

Fine water tank in the background too.

Athboy - yes.

Huge cattle traffic, with very thirsty locos on fair days!

[Georgeconna]

Indeed 462 would be  certainly nice. Maybe a Tie up with the RPSI such like some companies in the UK/ Canada who partnered with the  NRM have done would benefit both parties too.  Concentrate on the RPSI Steamers which would go nicely with the current Crop of motorised boxes.

 

[jhb171achill]

Goods vans in 1975.

Within a year, they were to be almost eliminated under the goods modernisation plan from 1972, which aimed to put everything in containers and abolish loose-coupled goods trains.

 

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Goods vans in 1975.

Within a year, they were to be almost eliminated under the goods modernisation plan from 1972, which aimed to put everything in containers and abolish loose-coupled goods trains.

 

Nice to see a reasonably clear picture of a fitted H van with the brake gear in view. The loose coupled vans were last used in service in the late 70s the Dublin-Tralee goods was the last scheduled goods to go over to Liner Train operation. A final Heuston-Tralee goods ran back into Heuston Station when a coupling broke as the train was climbing the Gullet. 

The H Vans of a Dundalk-Kilkenny empty keg special were stored on the North Warf sidings in Waterford possibly one of the last uses of H Vans in revenue service.

A lot of H Vans and Pallet Wagons were stored for scrapping in Mullingar in the early 80s, most of the Vacuum Fitted H vans were labeled "Hand Brake Only" and the sliding doors were missing from many of the pallet wagons. Unfortunately I did not have a camera with me on the day but I drew a sketch of the sole surviving GNR bulk cement wagon.

[Midland Man]

A lot of stuff got the scrap in Mullingar due to the modernization  in the 70s/80s. I am always surprised that the RPSI never got a D or a F class shunters. 

[minister_for_hardship]

36 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

A lot of stuff got the scrap in Mullingar due to the modernization  in the 70s/80s. I am always surprised that the RPSI never got a D or a F class shunters. 

As CIÉs pioneer diesels they had historical interest but save for Whitehead shunting, of limited use to the RPSI. 

[airfixfan]

Surely the F class were on the West Clare?

[jhb171achill]

8 hours ago, Midland Man said:

A lot of stuff got the scrap in Mullingar due to the modernization  in the 70s/80s. I am always surprised that the RPSI never got a D or a F class shunters. 

6 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Surely the F class were on the West Clare?

Yes, the "F" class were indeed on the West Clare; narrow gauge. No use to the RPSI but had CIE been happy to drop an entirely unreasonable price, they'd exist now in the Isle of Man, and would have prolonged the life of the Peel and Ramsey lines for up to maybe ten years more.

No reason why the four West Clare Walker railcars and their trailers might not have gone there too.

But that is entirely a different story.

A "D" class shunter would not have been of any use to the RPSI.

Edited May 11, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

Lyons Tea container, Limerick, 1976

 

[Midland Man]

Puts the talk into tea!

[jhb171achill]

The first ever trial run of the first “Bredins”. These were a set of non-corridor* suburban thirds for the Bray routes.

Senior (then a teenager) toddled along for the ride; pic dated 1933 but must be 1935.

(* Gangways were added some years  later)

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Midland Man]

Bredin was ahead of his time. Unfortunately he was never given the capital to build an amazing fleet. How many Bredins were built?

[jhb171achill]

Not sure of exact number, though I can look it up.

They were built largely in 1935 and 1937. In 1951-3, CIE built loads more of various types to the same basic design, which would later be continued into the design of the various “laminates”.

The 1935 (main line) versions had the side profile shown above. Later ones had the top part more curved.

 

EDIT: While this pic is dated 1933, it becomes evident it mist be 1935!

Edited May 13, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

I should add that this is the day that the new maroon livery (LMS maroon) was unveiled. The lining also was the same as the LMS! At this time, it is interesting to note that the carriage colour and lining (though obviously not lettering style) was exactly the same as the NCC had been for some years. So, just as the 1950s were the "grey'n'green" era, with both CIE and the UTA smothering anything that passengers went near in green, the 1930s and 40s might be called the "maroon" era, with - again - everything from Portrush to Baltimore in maroon.

Naturally, the GNR was in between in both cases, but as I was always told in early days at Whitehead "the GNR is different"!

Leslie, myself and a few other devotees of blue 4.4.0s will agree; albeit in a more benevolent sense than the comment was intended to imply! And, of course, in the dying days of the GNR, a green "A" class got to Monaghan, and a CIE green clad AEC set managed a run from Dundalk to Clones....... and the majority of surviving GNR coaches ended up either UTA green or CIE green.... anyway; I digress: back to the above coaches.

I forgot to mention that (obvious to many) this is taken at Portarlington. The old GSWR coach at the end is probably the brake, as none of this set of coaches were brake coaches.

GSR stock had until now been the very dark "crimson lake" colour, with some main line stock in the short-lived brown and cream - itself not unlike another British company, the GWR.

[BSGSV]

When Morton became General Manager of the GSR in 1932, he was succeeded as CME by Arthur Harty. Apart from the early Drumm cars, no coaching stock appeared until 1935, however 32 bogie carriages were then produced within the next three years. These coaches showed some change from what had gone before, and while Harty has been criticised for his locomotive designs, the coaches produced under his tenure as CME were certainly a step forward in passenger amenity. The coaches would not have been much out of place on the LMS at the time, which was probably producing the best general service stock of the period, in these islands.  The coaches were easily recognisable in having flush steel sides and metal skinned roof, although they still retained the somewhat old-fashioned rod and turnbuckle underframe trussing. The policy of having individual external doors to each compartment was abandoned, and access to compartments was now from the corridor only. Access to the coach was by external doors to internal vestibules, from which the corridor and toilets were accessed, and compartments were of decent size. They were all 60ft long over headstocks.

1935 saw the production of one all-first, two composites, eight thirds and one bogie van. These were all 9ft wide, and had relatively flat sides from roof down to waist level, below which was a slight tumblehome. In addition, two 1931-built dining vehicles and two 1919-built GSWR TPO’s were re-panelled to match the new coaches. Some of these carriages were used to form a new Dublin – Cork “Day Mail” set: bogie TPO, first, composite, the two diners, three thirds and the bogie van. And very nice it must have looked too, in the new crimson lake livery, when it went into service on Monday 5th August 1935. This “flagship” train, just like the 800 class later on, became a focus for publicity, but was not really representative of the general run of rolling stock to be found at the time, or for that matter, some time thereafter.

Dublin suburban services received attention in 1936, with the construction of two 6-coach sets, each formed of brake/third, third, two composites, third and brake/third. While full access was possible within each coach, they were not gangwayed, but did have the same flush-sided appearance of the 1935 coaches. Unlike the 1935 vehicles, which were relatively flat-sided, these had a slight “bulge”, being 9ft 3in at waist level and 9ft at roof level. Unfortunately, these relatively comfortable coaches had too few seats compared to older non-gangwayed stock, and passenger compaints grew, as people preferred to have a seat of some description rather than stand. The coaches were therefore soon dispersed among sets, rather than being kept together. In later days, CIE gave them gangways and occasionally used them on main line service, like the later Park Royals, despite their lack of toilets! 

1937 saw the appearance of further main line carriages, four composites and four thirds. It would be 1951 before Inchicore produced any more such coaches. The general layout of the 1937 coaches was similar to the 1935 versions, except that the “bulge” was even more pronounced, the coaches being 9ft 6in at waist level, 9ft at roof level and 8ft 10in at floor level. One composite was fitted with pressure ventilation, the first such application on GSR stock. Apart from the later Drumm sets C and D, these proved the last GSR coaching stock to be produced. 

[jhb171achill]

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH! 
 

Found these.

WHY was I born too late!!!  And why didn’t yer man take ANY pictures of these particular jaunts!!!!

 

 

[Angus]

Interesting to see that after a decade and a half the GS&WR pass book still hasn't been emptied!

 

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, Angus said:

Interesting to see that after a decade and a half the GS&WR pass book still hasn't been emptied!

 

Yes, nowadays the new “corporate image” / marketing people would throw every single thing with an old company name out when a name or even logo changed.

Today’s pics show commuting forty years apart. 

A nice Harcourt St Line scene and Hilden NIR in May 1989.

Two NIR liveries add interest, but nowhere near as much as a ten year old “Bredin” suburban and two (then) 60 to 70 year old Midland six-wheelers behind it!

All three are recently repainted from GSR maroon to CIE green. Since this is in the late 1940s, there will still be a goii oh d few maroon coaches about - possibly further down this train.

[Midland Man]

The bogies on the engine looks weird or is it just me ( probally me)

stay safe 

MM

[Galteemore]

16 hours ago, Angus said:

Interesting to see that after a decade and a half the GS&WR pass book still hasn't been emptied!

 

The effect of the economic war of the 30s and ‘Emergency’ frugality in part perhaps,  coupled in all likelihood with a desire on the part of some old Inchicore hands to carry on the old ways. Some big island workshops like Crewe tried to carry on some of their old LNWR practices despite LMS management from Derby! Funny old thing - when the old LNW apprentice RA Riddles became CME of BR, LNWR style blackberry black was suddenly the new BR mixed traffic livery !

Edited May 14, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Midland Man said:

The bogies on the engine looks weird or is it just me ( probally me)

stay safe 

MM

Outside framed, MM - there were a few designs like that.

[Midland Man]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Outside framed, MM - there were a few designs like that.

WLWR G3 had outside frames but that was all the engines I though had it. The LNER and GWR (mainly tanks for the GWR) did quite a few with that while the LMS did Inside frames probally due to the LSWR.

MM

[minister_for_hardship]

17 hours ago, Angus said:

Interesting to see that after a decade and a half the GS&WR pass book still hasn't been emptied!

 

I have seen GS&WR and GSR tickets date stamped well into the 1950s. No throwaway culture then. Rather than order new sets of tickets, just use up older stock.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

I have seen GS&WR and GSR tickets date stamped well into the 1950s. No throwaway culture then. Rather than order new sets of tickets, just use up older stock.

And quite rightly so!

Until at least 1976, Lisburn station was issuing UTA Edmondson return tickets to Dublin.......

[minister_for_hardship]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, nowadays the new “corporate image” / marketing people would throw every single thing with an old company name out when a name or even logo changed.

 

I really don't know what it is with companies getting makeovers. Take CIE, the first two logos had a decent run and then it's a rehash every few years.

Imo the original of the species wouldn't look out of place on modern stock even now, like BR double arrows you could tell what it was without explanatory text used for the current origami tricolour / "confused bat".

DB has had a few tweaks but still near identical logo but same house colours for decades.

Edited May 14, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[jhb171achill]

21 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

I really don't know what it is with companies getting makeovers. Take CIE, the first two logos had a decent run and then it's a rehash every few years.

Imo the original of the species wouldn't look out of place on modern stock even now, like BR double arrows you could tell what it was without explanatory text used for the current origami tricolour / "confused bat".

DB has had a few tweaks but still near identical logo but same house colours for decades.

Yes, I couldn't agree more, minister. NIR have had variations of the exact same logo from 1968 to 1996 when they became Translink in image terms - now, here's a weird one logo-wise: how can it be that twenty-four years after Translink decided to put their own oval-shaped logo across buses and trains, the three 111 class, alone, still - even after modern repaints - sport the old NIR logo!

I would have thought that the marketing geniuses would have started painting them the darker blue used on railcars, with a huge "translink" on the sides.... I'm not saying that i would LIKE it - I just would have expected it.

When IE (thanks to some persuasion from at least one member here) decided to do two 071s in heritage livery, it was a good move. Maybe NIR missed a trick in 2018 for their 50th in painting the three locos one in GNR blue, one in dark BCD green, and one in NCC maroon!

Even a CAF in maroon and light grey might be nice - but those yellow ends would have to go.

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, Midland Man said:

The bogies on the engine looks weird or is it just me ( probally me)

stay safe 

MM

Some of the ex GSWR 333 & GSR 342 Class small wheeled 4-4-0s were built with outside framed bogies as a result of a problem with overheated bogie axle bearings on the 1st batch of the 333 Class as originally built in 1907.

The overheating problem on the original locos was solved by changing the bearing oil, despite which the 342s were built with outside framed bogies!

The 333 Class were originally built to work the heavy Rosslare-Cork Boat Trains in the early 1900s, they were powerful go-almost anywhere engines the GSR built another 6 in the mid 1930s and took over Dublin-Wexford-Rosslare passenger services when the Woolwich moguls bumped the 4-4-0s from the Cork-Rosslare Boat Trains. The calss seems to have been a favourite for excursions trains, GAA specials and Mystery Trains.

 

[jhb171achill]

It’s 1976, and the summer is hot and long....

 

[Midland Man]

Are they both Inchicore.

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, Midland Man said:

Are they both Inchicore.

The coach is at Claremorris and I think the loco was Athlone.

[Midland Man]

It's looks Athlone only the building in the back doesn't look like the good shed and its certainly not Glavins shed. 027 is probally the shunter from Glavins. Funnily 028 a. Umber up from the engine in the pic was the last engine to leave Galvins shed in 1984. The shed is no longer with us but the old shed ( the one near the station) is. Do you have any pics of Athlone GSWR or the what the locals call it the southern station?

[jhb171achill]

I've nothing in the GSWR station as it had been closed for a very long time when I was travelling about! Indeed, so long, that Senior has nothing of the place either!