From the Catacombs

[Garfield]

@jhb171achill - here's a crudely enhanced version your photo just to make the scene appear a little brighter and easier to appreciate. Done rather quickly and roughly on a phone app rather than PhotoShop, so not as good as it could be...

 

Looks like there's a cement bubble sitting just beyond the end of the platform...

[airfixfan]

59 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

The railcar photo is suggesting Desertmartin on the Draperstown line.......

Not Desertmartin for the railcar photo. May not be even on the DC itself?

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, airfixfan said:

Not Desertmartin for the railcar photo. May not be even on the DC itself?

I do have notes, airfixfan, but his notes became disconnected from his pics at one stage. At some time I will try to marry up captions and pics. I daresay he has recorded the place, but I'm unaware thus far. I don't know - but if I find out I will post it here!

[mfjoc]

Maybe I can add some background to cement traffic as I was involved in it when I worked for CIE in the 1980's

Cement wagons were loaded by gravity in either Platin or limerick. The hatch in the top of the bubble or bogie wagon was opened and a circular canvas chute was lowered in contact with the wagon. The chute was double walled as air was drawn up as the wagon was being filled to contain the dust. I think the loading silos had multiple chutes and could load several wagons at a time. A loco was still needed to pull the train through as each set of wagons were loaded. When the train reached the destination storage silo the operator connected the compressed air supply to the wagon and also a large diameter rubber hose to the unloading pipe. this was via a Bauer connection.The air blew the cement up through the hose up a pipe to the top of the silo. The train engine stayed with the train while it was being unloaded as only 4 wagons could be unloaded for each shunt, two at a time if I remember rightly. Hence why the bubbles were marshaled pipe to pipe so when the first wagon was empty the operator just moved the air and unloading hoses to the second wagon.

Cork was different as a gantry with multiple hoses ran down between two sidings so the train could be split and left there.

Wagons were moved using a capstan in Cabra but not anywhere else.

Road tankers where driven in under the silo onto the weighbridge and were loaded using a similar telescopic chute to that for loading the wagons.

The silos at Tullamore and Waterford were 1000 ton while the one at Athenry was 2 x 500 ton as there was a local customer how used a lot of rapid hardening cement rather than the normal portland cement. So they had to be careful to unload the correct wagons into the right silo. All three were built a company called IMC .

The much larger silo in Cork was built by Kocums who had supplied the original bubble bodies. 

The one in Sligo was built by Portosilo and was 4  250 ton silos in a row

There were also storage silos at Adelaide in Belfast. These were owned by Blue Circle but if I remember right were just mounted on the ground and the cement was  blown in and blown out.

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

A once common sight all over Ireland, loading mailbags are rural stations. This is Claremorris, 1976. Any thoughts, anyone, on the mailvan?

I think its likely to be later than 76, I think the Uniload containers for sundries traffic and Bedford TKs with tail lifts were introduced (on the Sligo & Wexford lines a year or two later. 

Luggage Van could be 2549-2558 Series 1960 or one of the later conversions from GSR Bredin coaches 2559-61----1971 or 2562-2591----1973 parcel traffic was serious business those days. 

I remember seeing an on line photo of the Athlone-Westport Night Mail at Roscommon made up of a 141 Class hauling a single luggage van, with a Renault R4 van picking up the mails, priceless if I could find it!

[Midland Man]

31 minutes ago, Garfield said:

@jhb171achill - here's a crudely enhanced version your photo just to make the scene appear a little brighter and easier to appreciate. Done rather quickly and roughly on a phone app rather than PhotoShop, so not as good as it could be...

 

Looks like there's a cement bubble sitting just beyond the end of the platform...

My dad took a night job at Connolly before they stopped the night mail. When I got two MM MK2s it gave him dreaded flashbacks when he had to clean them.

[Patrick Davey]

5 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

My money is still on Desertmartin for this - the curve of the line under the bridge fits with the map below and the building also fits with this photo:

Am also tending to agree that the other view from a roof photo of the railcar is at Draperstown so these might all be taken on the same outing?

 

[jhb171achill]

17 minutes ago, Mayner said:

I think its likely to be later than 76, I think the Uniload containers for sundries traffic and Bedford TKs with tail lifts were introduced (on the Sligo & Wexford lines) a year or two later. 

Luggage Van could be 2549-2558 Series 1960 or one of the later conversions from GSR Bredin coaches 2559-61----1971 or 2562-2591----1973 parcel traffic was serious business those days. 

Interesting......  1976 appears to be what's in my notes.....?

[airfixfan]

2 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

My money is still on Desertmartin for this - the curve of the line under the bridge fits with the map below and the building also fits with this photo:

Am also tending to agree that the other view from a roof photo of the railcar is at Draperstown so these might all be taken on the same outing?

 

Now agree with Patrick and it would tie in well with a visit to Draperstown by senior on the same day. This branch closed to passengers as early as 1930 and was goods only like the Dungiven branch until 1950.

[Patrick Davey]

Which makes this a very rare photo of a rarely-photographed location, another great find JB!

[K801]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:46 PM, jhb171achill said:

 

JHB,  what was the story behind this ? 

[jhb171achill]

It is at Hilden Halt, just on the Belfast side of Lisburn. The vehicle about to be towed away is a 70 class driving trailer, which had been the rear vehicle of a three-coach all-stations to Belfast train. It had stalled there, first stop out of Lisburn, and a following train (which was an 80-class set) rammed it. Thankfully, it was a lightly-loaded service and nobody was killed (not as far as I recall, anyway), but had that been the 08:23 Lisburn to Belfast, it would have been packed-sardine-like to the doors, standing room only - and the result would have been unholy carnage. Without checking my notes, I think it was 1978. Around then, anyway.

Once the police and railway officials had investigated the scene, the Hunslet, which had come in from Belfast, backed up and towed it away - slowly!

There was another accident around the same time, about 18 months or so earlier, just a short way to the right in Lisburn station, when "A" class 010 on the up CIE "Enterprise" ran into the back of a stationary, and thankfully empty, 80 class set parked in the up platform in Lisburn station in its way. The driver had no time top react - he had a green signal. Signalling was manual then, and an error had been made in this area. A member of Lisburn station staff had the presence of mind to jump into the 80 when he heard the Dublin train coming and release the handbrake, to lessen the impact. Despite this, the "Enterprise" driver (from Connolly) was tragically killed as the cab of 010 just caved in. I saw that too - it was an extremely gruesome sight which I will never forget.

[K801]

Was the 80 class units involved in both accidents scrapped?

[airfixfan]

Photo is of 712 in the Hilden accident of March 25 1983. Both it and 88 leading the 2nd train were withdrawn due to accident damage. The other accident was in Lisburn on December 20 1978 and the A class hit 742 which was repaired afterwards

[jhb171achill]

Scooting along the main line near Hazelhatch.....

I don't have dates or details for these, but they are mid 1930s.

In the case of the third photo, the location also is unknown. Possibly on the Midland, looking at the vans. The leading coach in th  it a train is of interest to me - I can’t quite place it. The second, an interesting clerestory 3rd, is GSWR of 1901/2 origin.

[jhb171achill]

This took me greatly by surprise.

Mention of the Castlemungret branch - in 1947!

It wasn't opened until over ten years later! I had no idea it was even being thought if then.....

[jhb171achill]

A few 1970s wagons and a puzzle.

1.  1978 - Heuston

2.   The bubbles need no introduction here! This one has been factory-weathered by IRM....

3.    I think I’ve shown this before, but anyway..... GSWR guards van, Tralee, 1978

4.    Barrier wagon - a silver painted container. Lurking in a siding at Heuston goods (I think), c.1968. Were these on the Asahis?

5.    Grain wagons, Tralee, Rock St - again, I may have posted before.

6.    The puzzle. One of Seniors. Other than the fact that it’s obviously a MGWR wagon with those distinctive bogies, all I know about this picture is that it dates from the late 1930s / early 1940s. I’ve no idea where it is, nor what the new concrete beams are. I do know that senior’s first ever job in his career was having some concrete beams installed at Mullingar station, but they were smaller than these.

[Lambeg man]

Hi Jon,

I had a little play about with the last one.

 

There is a parapet to rear left side of the picture. The beams appear to part of an overbridge renewal. Rear centre two men are kneeling on new beams already put in place. There appear to be another set of rails on the far side of the train, so a two-track section (not necessarily 'double track'). Err, that's it. Can't help any further.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Lambeg man

[jhb171achill]

45 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

Hi Jon,

I had a little play about with the last one.

 

There is a parapet to rear left side of the picture. The beams appear to part of an overbridge renewal. Rear centre two men are kneeling on new beams already put in place. There appear to be another set of rails on the far side of the train, so a two-track section (not necessarily 'double track'). Err, that's it. Can't help any further.

Yes, and if we look at that parapet, it seems that the left hand side of it is old stone masonry, while the right is newer block masonry. Clearly they are rebuilding a bridge. Could be anywhere. It is possible, that once I match up his notes with all (rather than just some!) of his pictures, I may be able to find out.

I wonder can anyone, meantime, help with 3406M? Similar to the wagon to the right, very "American-looking" bogie rail flats. I recall seeing one derelict many many years ago somewhere round the North Wall area. Senior pointed it out to me. 

[Midland Man]

It looks like something from the north wall indeed. It cart be in the midlands as the cranes does not look like the Breatlan or the Athlone cranes. The is only one bridge that could be double tracked and that is on the Longford side of the station whitch runs into the main Centre of the town. I believe there is a pic of a 2-6-0 on Liffey juntion to Westland row(when the station have all Galway services) track derailed with a Crane like the one above retailing it. If you want to sea the pic it in one of the new IRRS booklets about a topic on accidents on Irish railways.

[mfjoc]

"I wonder can anyone, meantime, help with 3406M? Similar to the wagon to the right, very "American-looking" bogie rail flats. I recall seeing one derelict many many years ago somewhere round the North Wall area. Senior pointed it out to me. "

 

War surplus,  bought by the best bargin hunting railway in the country. 

i think some were later incorporated in the Bretland relaying train.

[jhb171achill]

25 minutes ago, mfjoc said:

"I wonder can anyone, meantime, help with 3406M? Similar to the wagon to the right, very "American-looking" bogie rail flats. I recall seeing one derelict many many years ago somewhere round the North Wall area. Senior pointed it out to me. "

 

War surplus,  bought by the best bargin hunting railway in the country. 

i think some were later incorporated in the Bretland relaying train.

You're right about some getting into the Bretland train - I suspect that the one I saw in the late 1960s was one such - it certainly looked as much like the above as I am capable of remembering. War surplus makes perfect sense - I had an idea in the back of my mind about them originating about then - must have read it somewhere before!

 

[jhb171achill]

Ooooops!!!

 

Tramore, 1947.

[Midland Man]

Note the coal bunker has been made bigger so that engines did no have to stop on there way to Tramore. Looks like it did not stop at all.

MM

[jhb171achill]

21 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

Note the coal bunker has been made bigger so that engines did no have to stop on there way to Tramore. Looks like it did not stop at all.

MM

There was nowhere to stop!  The line simply consisted of the two stations, Waterford and Tramore, nowhere in between. Three locos were converted like the one shown, and the trio replaced the older Tramore locos, until the diesel railcars arrived in the fifties. Then they went back to the main system.

[Midland Man]

Yeh I know there was no where to stop but they needed the bigger bunker so they would not stop. Manor street may be a something I will build but will be in early GSR as I would like to model some of the original stock as one engine (number 4) lasted until the 40s!

[hexagon789]

17 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Ooooops!!!

 

Tramore, 1947.

 

Reminds me of an accident which resulted in a similar situation at Largs in July 1995.

A Class 318 electric unit from Glasgow failed to stop, ran through the buffers, the station and right out into the high street.

 

[jhb171achill]

Revisiting the Fintona tram

A 1947 Cuisle article, when it still had a decade to go, and another photo of it getting ready to be hitched up to a steam engine to leave a Fintona for the last time, to go to Belfast to the museum. Staff had pushed it to this position from under the canopy. Senior travelled with it as far as Omagh.

Its small luggage wagon can be seen bottom right.

Edited April 17, 2020 by jhb171achill

[hexagon789]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Revisiting the Fintona tram

A 1947 Cuisle article, when it still had a decade to go, and another photo of it getting ready to be hitched up to a steam engine to leave a Fintona for the last time, to go to Belfast to the museum. Staff had pushed it to this position from under the canopy. Senior travelled with it as far as Omagh.

Its small luggage wagon can be seen bottom right.

 

One thing I've never quite understood - why was the horse always called "Dick"?

Purely tradition?

[Galteemore]

So I understand. And not only that - ‘Dick’ was a mare! 

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

So I understand. And not only that - ‘Dick’ was a mare! 

Yes, nothing more than that - local traditions!

[Galteemore]

West of the Bann. A world apart. One that I have always found more congenial than the east of my youth! 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Galteemore

[Midland Man]

Imagine if it survived today.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Midland Man

[Galteemore]

Unfortunately, I think it would have been over-commercialised and sentimentalised. Think Disney World. The tram did run again - once. When the Belfast Transport museum was opened - initially at Queens Quay, a horse was requisitioned from Harkness hauliers to jog the assembled dignitaries down the yard. The Lord Mayor took the reins at one point ! 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Unfortunately, I think it would have been over-commercialised and sentimentalised. Think Disney World. The tram did run again - once. When the Belfast Transport museum was opened - initially at Queens Quay, a horse was requisitioned from Harkness hauliers to jog the assembled dignitaries down the yard. The Lord Mayor took the reins at one point! 

There was some sort of half-hearted local idea some years ago (maybe in the 1990s) when ACE funding was obtained to build a replica of the luggage truck for display at Fintona. The lower deck of an old Belfast tramcar was also found in a field somewhere and brought to Fintona to be rebuilt as a sort of "Fintona Tram". It would actually have been a very nice attraction, if a "Dick" could be found!

The tram was vandalised, but has later been restored and is now on display at the former Clogher Valley Railway's Maguiresbridge station not far away.

Had anything some of it, the station site is now a Tesco car park, but a bit like the reincarnation of the station at Downpatrick, a replica building of sorts could have been provided at the "throat" end of what had been Fintona station, and the track relaid on the original route of the 1.5km line to the junction. It would seem that the junction platform remains, buried under sixty years growth of bushes and trees, and a run to there and back wouldn't take people anywhere - just a "spin".

I was tempted to think that it would have made (and possibly still could make) a nice little low-cost (and very unique) "preserved railway".

If anyone knows who owns the land, I'll assist them with the grant application!