GSWR/GSR/CIE Six-Wheeled Coaches - ECMbuild in Gauge OO

murrayec · March 29, 2020

I'm building 4 no Studio Scale Models Six wheeler coach Kits for a client;-

All 1st

All 3rd

Brake 3rd

1st & 2nd Compo - Lav

All parts come in the kits except for decals.

Bogies are first, it's a link type system to allow the middle axle to float. The bogie parts cut, folded and soldering up with 180deg solder.

The little hook on bogie 'A' was given some solder into the folds for a bit of strength.

Break gear going on, the cylinders had to be modified to allow for the bogie pivot bolt head.

These parts were soldered with 70deg WM solder, first thinning the brass with 180deg solder.

Bogie system done.

Chassis next, the solebar overlays were thinned with 180deg solder while in the sprue and then cut out. There are two overlays to be soldered on each side.

I left the chassis flat for soldering these on, reckoned it was easier this way.

Then folded the chassis up with folding bars in the bench vice.

Done.

After folding up the buffer beams, which there is also a detail overlay for but will go on later, I set to soldering the folds with a hefty fillet, and soldered the fold edge of the axle guards to give support.

Little fiddly caps soldered on top of the outer ends of the buffer beams, and the upper step was folded out with a pliers.

The lower step was folded up again with the bars and a fillet of solder run along the back of the fold. These will be soldered to the chassis later, also the axle guard tie bars, just to avoid damage as the bodywork progresses!

Next the white metal spring castings, again thinning the brass with 180deg, clamping the casting on and soldering with 70deg solder.

Done.

When checking the gas tank location I found they fouled the break shoes on the middle axle, could not get them to fit- the instructions tells one to cut the shoes off!! I opted for an ECM solution!

I decided to make new tanks 2mm shorter, brass tube and aluminium turnings on the lathe made up two masters for moulding.

Testing the masters to see if it will work!

I cut new shorter 2mm axles from piano wire to replace the pin point ones.

The gas tank moulding worked out OK and now its time to fit them, the brass straps were thinned while held in the sprue and the tank mounts were thinned all with 180deg.

The straps were removed and a 90 bend was put on one end to solder them to the underside of the chassis.

The tanks were then soldered onto their supports with 70deg WM solder and the straps folded down over and soldered to the tanks on the inside, these ends are terminated on the tank inside so that the bogie will fit in.

Done, break shoes just about miss and one tank did not sit down correctly!

So then if you go back and read all the above again 3 times! it will get you to here;-

Bodies next....

Eoin

Edited December 3, 2020 by murrayec

jhb171achill · March 29, 2020

Wow! Absolutely outstanding work as always!

Georgeconna · March 29, 2020

Hold on Eoin, I have 4 I could throw up you whislt your at it!

Looking forward to follow this one. Mine have been sitting thier ages!

Galteemore · March 29, 2020

Lovely work as ever Eoin. Nice to see white metal being affixed with solder and not 5 minute epoxy!

Midland Man · March 29, 2020

Looking good. Do they still sell them and in what gauge?

Noel · March 29, 2020

2 hours ago, murrayec said:

I'm building 4 no Studio Scale Models Six wheeler coach Kits for a client;-

All 1st

All 3rd

Break 3rd

1st & 2nd Compo - Lav

All parts come in the kits except for decals.

Bogies are first, it's a link type system to allow the middle axle to float. The bogie parts cut, folded and soldering up with 180deg solder.

The little hook on bogie 'A' was given some solder into the folds for a bit of strength.

Break gear going on, the cylinders had to be modified to allow for the bogie pivot bolt head.

These parts were soldered with 70deg WM solder, first thinning the brass with 180deg solder.

Bogie system done.

Chassis next, the solebar overlays were thinned with 180deg solder while in the sprue and then cut out. There are two overlays to be soldered on each side.

I left the chassis flat for soldering these on, reckoned it was easier this way.

Then folded the chassis up with folding bars in the bench vice.

Done.

After folding up the buffer beams, which there is also a detail overlay for but will go on later, I set to soldering the folds with a hefty fillet, and soldered the fold edge of the axle guards to give support.

Little fiddly caps soldered on top of the outer ends of the buffer beams, and the upper step was folded out with a pliers.

The lower step was folded up again with the bars and a fillet of solder run along the back of the fold. These will be soldered to the chassis later, also the axle guard tie bars, just to avoid damage as the bodywork progresses!

Next the white metal spring castings, again thinning the brass with 180deg, clamping the casting on and soldering with 70deg solder.

Done.

When checking the gas tank location I found they fouled the break shoes on the middle axle, could not get them to fit- the instructions tells one to cut the shoes off!! I opted for an ECM solution!

I decided to make new tanks 2mm shorter, brass tube and aluminium turnings on the lathe made up two masters for moulding.

Testing the masters to see if it will work!

I cut new shorter 2mm axles from piano wire to replace the pin point ones.

The gas tank moulding worked out OK and now its time to fit them, the brass straps were thinned while held in the sprue and the tank mounts were thinned all with 180deg.

The straps were removed and a 90 bend was put on one end to solder them to the underside of the chassis.

The tanks were then soldered onto their supports with 70deg WM solder and the straps folded down over and soldered to the tanks on the inside, these ends are terminated on the tank inside so that the bogie will fit in.

Done, break shoes just about miss and one tank did not sit down correctly!

So then if you go back and read all the above again 3 times! it will get you to here;-

Bodies next....

Eoin

As soon as I saw who the OP was and the title of the thread I just knew this was going to be special which seems and understatement. Stunning as ever Isambard Kingdom Murray.

jhb171achill · March 29, 2020

Yes, they still make them. Contact Des Sullivan in Ennis, address somewhere here on this website, SSM (Studio Scale Models). His kits are excellent. He makes them in "0" gauge and "00" gauge anyway. It is my understanding that once he has the pattern done, he can enlarge or decrease it, depending on demand.

murrayec · March 30, 2020

13 hours ago, Midland Man said:

Do they still sell them and in what gauge?

@Midland Man As far as I know SSM only do 4mm 6 wheelers;-

http://www.studio-scale-models.com/Coaches.shtml

Worsley Works do 7mm but not full kits, these are scratch aids and require a lot more working out and not always available;-

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/7mm/7mm_Irish_Standard_Gauge.htm

Alphagraphix do 7mm 6 wheelers, not sure if the do Irish ones, I have a few of their UK brass coach kits which are very nice- worth contacting them to see what they have, they advertise in Railway Modeller and you have to contact them that way- no website.

Eoin

Galteemore · March 30, 2020

These are Roger’s (Alphagraphix) Irish coaches in the catalogue ..very nice as Eoin says. I’ve built one of his English ones plus the hearse van which awaits transfers and final finishing

Edited March 30, 2020 by Galteemore

murrayec · March 30, 2020

13 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

These are Roger’s (Alphagraphix) Irish coaches in the catalogue ..very nice

I got to get a few of those....

Eoin

Edited March 30, 2020 by murrayec

Galteemore · March 30, 2020

Buy them while they’re hot Eoin.....some Irish items have disappeared from the range since last year’s catalogue...I’m not sure how often he reruns the Irish range when the etches run out.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Galteemore

KMCE · March 30, 2020

Superb work Eoin,

These kits appear to be much more detailed than the Worsley kit. I may be tempted to indulge in a few.

Few quick question, if I may;-

The bogie & trailing wheel arrangement looks interesting, however how effective is it? - I found the Cleminson chassis too slow to react & provide a smooth transition through points etc. I ended up using the PB wire method you kindly recommended, which does work well.

I presume these can be built for 21mm?

I noted the centre axle has brakes on the model you demonstrated- do all kits have centre brakes, as i understood, only some coaches had them?

Cheers & good luck with the rest of the build.

Ken

murrayec · March 30, 2020

@KMCE Thanks ken....

Everything is supplied except the decals- see the first photos above, a far better option than a WW scratch aid.

The bogie system is just a single link, one less than the Cleminson awful yoke, so its got to be better. I've used the MJT wire sprung centre axle on my coaches but decided to stick with these kit ones- I'll let you know how they run- but there will be a delay! cant get the couplers due to business closures at the moment.....

21mm is allowed for but I'd say there is minimal side play on the centre axle?

All kits have centre axle breaks, the instructions do say about clipping them off- one has to if using the gas tanks supplied with the kit! I decided to leave them on so made new shorter tanks, the client can clip them off if required.

Eoin

leslie10646 · April 4, 2020

As Noel says, when I saw the subject and the writer of this thread it was a must to have a look.

Great stuff and a lesson for those yet to try brass (not one-eyed me!).

Does Des really provide his kits in nice WOODEN boxes! Or, as I suspect, it's just your neat way of doing the work?

Greetings from a cloudy, cool Surrey - the Government can't even get the weather forecast right!

murrayec · April 4, 2020

3 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Does Des really provide his kits in nice WOODEN boxes! Or, as I suspect, it's just your neat way of doing the work?

@leslie10646 Thanks,

the wooden boxes are home spun- with the amount of projects on the bench at the moment I can't rely on little piles of parts here n there in the workshop, as space is tight one is always moving things around and that's when parts get mixed up between projects- boxes are the solution and so handy. I now have a stack of them and the problem now is where to store them!!

Eoin

leslie10646 · April 4, 2020

Eoin,

Phew, that's a relief, as PWs come in bags!

But it is the sensible way to do things. When I remember to be organised, things are in different Really Useful Boxes (I have dozens of 4L and 9L ones) - the trouble then is that I don't remember which one has what in it - except I label them and put them away with the label visible!

Two weeks into Lock-down and I still haven't tidied up!

murrayec · April 4, 2020

@leslie10646

I also use Really Useful Boxes for storage of trains and modelling equipment, but their sizes are not so convenient to hold model parts on a build their either to small or to large!, so making boxes to suit was the best option.

This is a three tier stepped rack for holding the build boxes, each tier is held in place with magnets so they can be lifted off separately or as one unit.

The RUB train 9L storage boxes- I make up pocket trays from satyr-foam to fit in the box, each box takes two trays of 4 models.

Eoin

leslie10646 · April 4, 2020

I liked the three tiered rack - very neat.

As you will have noted I was selling the foam inserts for the RUBs at Blackrock (a Million Years ago) and have used them to store whole trains until the sidings are down for them.

Different topic, Eoin, is that a Dapol motorised track cleaner I saw in one of the boxes?

If so, are they any good?

Greetings from a now sunny Surrey!

murrayec · April 4, 2020

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

Different topic, Eoin, is that a Dapol motorised track cleaner I saw in one of the boxes?

If so, are they any good?

@leslie10646

It is indeed, it was not great fresh out of it's box! ran it around n around and all it did was spread the dirt evenly along the track, changed the cleaning pads several times but still did the same. I intended to play around with it but at the time I inherited a Centerline Products Proto 2000 Rail Cleaner with no brass rolling wheel! after a bit of Googling I duly made a knurled brass wheel for it and haven't looked back at the Dapol- the Proto 2000 is excellent.....

Eoin

WRENNEIRE · April 10, 2020

Or you could do this with it ( or in my case have it done)

murrayec · December 2, 2020

The 6 wheelers are progressing;- Just showing the body build of the Brake 3rd as it's the more complex build the others are the same without the duckets!

After cleaning up the cusp edges on all the body parts I bent the tumble home on the sides with 8mm, 10mm rods and the mouse mat.

It's not much of a tumble so a push in with the 8mm bar and then rolled with the 10mm bar to flatten slightly until it fitted the ends.

Then bent up the top n bottom tabs to 90 deg.

Folded up the base taps on the ends, soldered in the footsteps on and the captive nuts on the fixing plates- held in with sticks while soldering. These plates will be soldered on top of the end's tabs but I going to wait until I bolt the lot together before doing that.

Setting up the parts for the duckets, the front panel has a reverse curve at the bottom, all bent with the 8mm bar while test fitting it to the sides.

Door hinge pieces being soldered in.

Hinges on.

Ducket sides were first lightly tack soldered at the top tab, then adjusted until the front panel fitted flush with them and then they were fully soldered on the inside.

Then the front panel was soldered on from the inside while holding it with a piece of wood in the fingers. A thin soldering bit can just about get in there between the coach sides and the ducket front panel!

Panel on with the solder wicking through to the outside, requiring a little clean up later. The base of the panel is also soldered from the inside.

The ducket roof was then soldered at it's tabs from the inside, then adjusted to fit the panel on the outside, and then soldered to the panel internally with the little soldering tip.

Duckets done.

Next up are the drop-lights in the doors and ventilators.......

Eoin

popeye · December 2, 2020

That's a nice job, you make it look easy.

jhb171achill · December 2, 2020

SUPERB stuff as always; we're seeing the brassmaster at work!

KMCE · December 4, 2020

Excellent stuff, as always Eoin.

Glad you got to this as I have a few of these coaches to mke up & I was holding off until you posted more!!!

jhb171achill · December 4, 2020

These things, plus their Midland equivalents, are an absolutely vital part of the pre-1963 scene on CIE. As late as 1962, several branch lines still featured them regularly, and even then sometime almost exclusively.

Several of the full brake version (not any passenger-carrying ones) survived until 1968/9 and were thus the only six-wheelers (bar the "tin vans") to find their way into the black'n'tan livery. Those last four seem to have mostly turned up by that stage on the up and down Galway passenger / mail trains. Downpatrick has one of them, now rebuilt into a brake first saloon, No. 69.

It's great to see these coaches being put together - better still to see growing interest in the CIE "grey'n'green" era, with ready to run "A" class locos imminent, plus of course the grey 121s. Hopefully more to come from these very interesting times, when the old traditional steam railway, with mixed goods trains, six-wheeled carriages, wooden stock (passenger AND goods) the norm - gradually morphed into the then very modern world of laminates, Cravens and diesel locomotives.

murrayec · December 23, 2020

Drop-lights going in after cleaning up the solder on the door hinge parts, the drop-lights go snug up against these so need to check the fit!

A .4mm brass pin is used through the door handle hole to hold in place while tack soldering the top with 180deg solder, then after checking the line up the pin is pulled out and the part is soldered up.

Done, with a little bit of clean up required.

After the cleaning the next step is to test assemble the sides and ends to see how it all fits and make adjustments as required.

Then it's set-up on the chassis to prepare to tack solder the sides, ends, and the bolting plates. This will ensure the body will fit the chassis when finally soldered up!

The other 3 kits are following along with the same process being done.

Happy Christmas to all.

Eoin.

KMCE · December 23, 2020

Lovely work, as always, Eoin.

Fine looking coach.

jhb171achill · December 24, 2020

Superb work - the result, as always, will be amazing!

Happy Christmas to all here!

Weshty · January 7, 2021

Superb work on the kits Eoin, I'll have to amend the instructions to cater for your lovely work on the gas tanks! Great patience to work on the 4 of them.

I like your bench vice, very tidy and useful

murrayec · January 11, 2021

All sides and ends of the 4 kits are now set-up ready for the roofing stage!

Showing the brake third- all components removed from frets and cleaned up.

These are the roof clamping down parts and the luggage compartment rooflight, the birdcage rooflight to the brake conpartment is not being used.

Roof sheet being drilled for ventilators and gas lamps.

After de-burring the roof sheet was rolled to curve.

Curved, needing a bit of flatting out!

Test fitting the roof lower bracket to prepare for tack soldering sides and ends, this was done while the sides and ends are still bolted to the chassis.

Tacks done, and then the sides n ends are removed from the chassis and fully soldered up.

Setting up the captive screws and the upper roof bracket with captive 10 BA nuts.

Done

Lower bracket soldered in with the upper bracket screwed on with paper between ready for soldering the roof sheet on.

Roof sheet tack soldered from the underside and....

.....then the roof is unscrewed and the soldering of the upper bracket was completed.

Roof on!

3 more to go....

Eoin

popeye · January 11, 2021

Excellent work.

Very neat and tidy, they look like a well thought out kit.

jhb171achill · January 11, 2021

TOP class as always!

murrayec · January 12, 2021

23 hours ago, popeye said:

........ , they look like a well thought out kit.

@popeye

I agree, everything has fitted together ( I chose to remake the gas tanks where the instructions suggest removing the brake shoes, and I have since heard that most prototype coaches had no shoes on the centre axles ), there are aid holes for lining up the parts, even jigs on the frets for bending the handrails, plus easy well laid out instructions with diagrams......

Eoin

murrayec · February 10, 2021

The other 3 kits have caught up with bodies n roofs together.

Continuing on with roof details, again only showing the brake coach in the photos. It is actually the more complex roof than the other kits.

Scribing roof planking with height gauge and angle block, all kit roofs were done at the same time to avoid repeat setting of the gauge!

The brake area roof light was set up for soldering on, the roof light has a lower part to aid assembly and will be removed when it's complete.

This trim piece to the rooflight opening will be soldered on by the solder wicking it's way under while soldering the main frame from the inside.

Soldered in and needing a small bit of clean-up.

The holes for the air vents and lights were pre-thinned with 180deg solder getting ready for 70deg lead soldering the white metal bits in.

.35mm fb wire was setup for the roof rain strips, clamped in place ready for 145deg solder, using the lower melt solder to try and not over heat the wire, causing it to buckle and go out of shape.

Tacked on in a few places ready to solder the whole.

Both sides done.

.35mm fb wire was bent up for the roof handrails using the jig J1 supplied on the fret of the kit.

Held in place with a dinky clip and fingers! Then 180deg soldered on from the inside.

The handrails ends and solder needs to be filed flush with the underside of the roof as these are right on the line of the body ends.

The white metal lights and roof vents were cleaned up and sized to fit. These will be soldered with 70deg lead solder.

First on are the lights and the gas supply pipes, the pipes were done with .35mm fp wire and 180 deg solder. The parts were soldered with tracing paper under to avoid soldering to the roof.