Back to the future

[Noel]

Come on guys we need an RTR version of these to IRM's supreme standard.  And while you'r at it please rustle up a few vans as well. Enough of this yellow stuff and bogies. In polite jest, but it would be amazing to have IRM versions of these wagons that dominated every corner of Ireland's railways for decades.

(C) Photo from Steve Rabone's site  http://steverabone.com/RailwayPhotographs/ireland_1984.htm

. . . something to look forward to for next year when all this 42ft stuff is completed. And CV19 starts to become a mere memory.

[Old Blarney]

 PROVINCIAL WAGONS

If your confined to Barracks at present, and you also wish to have Bulleid's Wagons on your model railway, the solution may be available to you.

Contact:- PROVINCIAL WAGONS 

http://www.provincialwagons.com/

  Bulleid Corrugated-sided Wagon

OUR BEST SELLING WAGON EVER!

Little wonder I have sold hundreds of these, as Michael Rayner has faithfully reproduced those corrugations in miniature and found a neat soluiton to the spindly brake gear - a super kit for a wagon seen everywhere in Ireland.

 

The illustration is of the prototype wagon which clearly shows the unusual triangulated chassis, patented by Oliver Bulleid and his chief draughtsman at the Southern Railway - Lionel Lynes. Corrugations in and outside, plus a plated floor as in the real thing. Count the bolt heads!! Note the Builder's Plate and the representation of a consignment clip.

The wagon was introduced in 1956 in this form and was built to the tune of over two thousand wagons, of which 1,000 were still in use by the end of the 1970s. They were used on all manner of traffic, but latterly extensively as Beet wagons for the annual Beet Campaign.

Apart from the brake gear (PARTLY formed of a re-bent staple (supplied, of course!), this should be a very easy kit to build as body and triangulated chassis will be a single casting!

NO transfers are supplied as the original wagons merely had a stencilled number on the left hand triangulation and it would be so small as to be unreadable. In any event, in real life it quickly disappeared under a coating of muck, oil etc!!

Number series was 11817 to 14672.

Kit              £24       or         €28.50 post paid

While building a small supply of ready to run wagons for me, Nelson Jackson answered a request from a customer to produce an opening door verison of this iconic wagon. He wasn't the first, as Kieran Lagan had previously produced an open door version of my cattle van for a little scene on his famous layout.

It shows how my kits can be seen a merely a starter for your imagination!

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Old Blarney

[jhb171achill]

As the happy owner of a few of these little beasts, I can attest to their excellence, as befit ass things "Provincial".

Now, if I could get current writing projects finished, I might get round to actually putting the things together, along with about a dozen cattle trucks from the same stable!

Edited April 8, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Midland Man]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Come on guys we need an RTR version of these to IRM's supreme standard.  And while you'r at it please rustle up a few vans as well. Enough of this yellow stuff and bogies. In polite jest, but it would be amazing to have IRM versions of these wagons that dominated every corner of Ireland's railways for decades.

(C) Photo from Steve Rabone's site  http://steverabone.com/RailwayPhotographs/ireland_1984.htm

. . . something to look forward to for next year when all this 42ft stuff is completed. And CV19 starts to become a mere memory.

I think a brake van would be more useful than a beet wagon plus a I find a kit is way more fun to build than buying a model and just putting it on the track.

[Old Blarney]

Still available -

from

PROVINCIAL WAGONS

 

"I think a brake van would be more useful than a beet wagon plus a I find a kit is way more fun to build than buying a model and just putting it on the track."

Now there,  your prayers have been answered! 

 

Ex-GSWR 10 ton Goods Brake Van  We've introduced this kit as a perfect partner to the 00 Works Class J15 0-6-0 (still available, by the way).

 

Built from about 1890 onwards, these modest brake vans were to be seen all over the Great Southern and Western Railway system, continuing into Great Southern days and finally CIE until the early 1960s! They were almost as long-lived as the locomotives which pulled them. A perfect partner for your 00 Works J15?

 

I have photographs in my possession of this type still in use on branch lines in the late 1950s, early 1960s - incuding one on a goods train hauled by a little G Class diesel!

 

Available as a kit with GSWR transfers and optional CIE Flying Snails (CIE appear to have crudely painted out the GSWR and applied the famous snail on the guard's lookout ducket.

 

  Kit       £33   or   €37   Post Paid

Edited April 8, 2020 by Old Blarney

[Warbonnet]

Studio scale models also do CIE brake van and a GNRI one http://studio-scale-models.com/Freight.shtml

Lots of options! 

[Old Blarney]

Whoops! Apologies to Des for my not having included his products too. 

[Noel]

Yes  yes I know about the kits but to have RTR from (drum roll) IRM with their standard for precision scale and innovation with be incredible. Not everybody wants to build kits, or not all of the time. IRM might not exist if there hadn't been a market demand for fine scale RTR. Much of what IRM have produced so far had previously been available as kits before they entered the market and 'blew the bloody doors off' setting new standards for scale precision and levels of detail we had not seen before. That standard and level of quality could never be bettered by any expensive resin or brass kits. Quality RTR CIE open bulleids and vans should sell like hot cakes braking all sales records. The A class may have seemed unlikely 5 years ago but here we are, anything is possible.

[Old Blarney]

Noel,

"Much of what IRM have produced so far had previously been available as kits before they entered the market and 'blew the bloody doors off' setting new standards for scale precision and levels of detail we had not seen before." 

Your comment is extremely belittling of those who gave their time, money, and effort, to provide us with models of Irish railways rolling stock that was previously unavailable to us. I am extremely grateful to  the Cottage Industry Manufacturers who have made sterling efforts to provide rolling stock that enhances my model railways, as are many other modellers of Irish Railways. 

It is unfair, unjust and ignorant to make the comment you have posted. Anyone with half-a-brain is fully aware the standards of household produced products and those achievable with modern industrial manufacturing processes cannot be compared in any fair or favourable way!  I, and many other users of Household Cottage Manufacturer models and those produced by their industrious counterparts can recognise the benefits of both and complement each.

Nothing like stating the obvious! "Quality RTR CIE open bulleids and vans should sell like hot cakes braking all sales records. The A class may have seemed unlikely 5 years ago but here we are, anything is possible."

  

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Old Blarney

[Noel]

1 hour ago, Old Blarney said:

Noel,

"Much of what IRM have produced so far had previously been available as kits before they entered the market and 'blew the bloody doors off' setting new standards for scale precision and levels of detail we had not seen before." 

Your comment is extremely belittling of those who gave their time, money, and effort, to provide us with models of Irish railways rolling stock that was previously unavailable to us. I am extremely grateful to  the Cottage Industry Manufacturers who have made sterling efforts to provide rolling stock that enhances my model railways, as are many other modellers of Irish Railways. 

It is unfair, unjust and ignorant to make the comment you have posted. Anyone with half-a-brain is fully aware the standards of household produced products and those achievable with modern industrial manufacturing processes cannot be compared in any fair or favourable way!  I, and many other users of Household Cottage Manufacturer models and those produced by their industrious counterparts can recognise the benefits of both and complement each.

Nothing like stating the obvious! "Quality RTR CIE open bulleids and vans should sell like hot cakes braking all sales records. The A class may have seemed unlikely 5 years ago but here we are, anything is possible."

  

Apologies but I don't see what is 'belittling' about the above post. It's a simple observation, the game has moved on, the bar has been raised, what modellers were content with 10-20 years ago doesn't quite cut the mustard these days. Yes I get all that about the old days when Irish rolling stock was not available, but it is now. BY way of illustration, SF resin A classes have been superseded by IRM A class, MIR 121/141/071 resin kits were superseded by Murphy Models, IFM Ballast wagons and bubbles were superseded by vastly superior IRM wagons. There was a lot of resin in the old days, but things have moved on. The 'cottage industry' manufacturers were of their time and had their day fulfilling a niche demand back then. Some fab stuff was built by very skilled modellers, even bags of white metal Q-kits.  Why is it some sort of modellers blasphemy to dare to suggest  or request IRM start to produce stuff that was previously the preserve of only cottage kits suppliers?  Most in the market don't want kits anymore, many don't have the time to skill up or interest, they want to open a box and run a quality model that both looks stunningly detailed and runs prototypically like a swiss watch. Open beet wagons and CIE vans seem a gaping hole in to days RTR market, just expressing a wish to see an RTR version of same from IRM. That's not a slight on kit vendors, just a customer request for obvious reasons. People used to make their own cloths in the old days, now everything is off the peg and higher quality. That's not belittling people who used to knit their own stuff many decades ago. Time has moved on.

[DiveController]

 

Personally, I'd probably prefer to see IRM produce something that his not available somewhere else,  although a move to an earlier timeframe would also be welcomed

[JasonB]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

 Why is it some sort of modellers blasphemy to dare to suggest  or request IRM start to produce stuff that was previously the preserve of only cottage kits suppliers? 

Doesn't sound like a request to me. More like another one of your repetitive demands. And if you reckon it's just a simple case of asking and you'll get, why don't you stump up the six figure sum to get the ball rolling.  

As for the cottage kit suppliers you refer to. Your comment comes across as if they're redundant, and have no place in the modelling world nowadays. Strange, considering many were, or still are members on here, with one in particular a regular contributor.  

[DiveController]

These threads don't serve any purpose and make this site look bad.

IRM and every other retailer on here have sufficient wit to know what will sell and the economics of their business.

I'm pretty sure they neither need to capitulate to any 'demands' nor need any proxy CFOs defending their business models.

  

[Old Blarney]

Apologies but I don't see what is 'belittling' about the above post. I suggest you re-read your post. It is, in my opinion, a matter of tone as much as comment. It's a simple observation, the game has moved on, the bar has been raised, what modellers were content with 10-20 years ago doesn't quite cut the mustard these days. With the exception of  the words,"It's a simple observation", and the way in which you expressed your opinion, in your original post, I cannot disagree with these sentiments.   Yes I get all that about the old days when Irish rolling stock was not available, but it is now. BY way of illustration, SF resin A classes have been superseded by IRM A class, MIR 121/141/071 resin kits were superseded by Murphy Models, IFM Ballast wagons and bubbles were superseded by vastly superior IRM wagons. There was a lot of resin in the old days, but things have moved on. The 'cottage industry' manufacturers were of their time and had their day fulfilling a niche demand back then. Some fab stuff was built by very skilled modellers, even bags of white metal Q-kits. Had you expressed you original opinion in this way, and thus, made clear your point, I would not have raised any objection to your tone or its content.  Why is it some sort of modellers blasphemy to dare to suggest  or request IRM start to produce stuff that was previously the preserve of only cottage kits suppliers?  Might this, in hindsight be your opinion of your wording! Most in the market don't want kits anymore, many don't have the time to skill up or interest, they want to open a box and run a quality model that both looks stunningly detailed and runs prototypically like a swiss watch. Surely your argument fails on this very point as there are those who are prepared to invest their capital, their time, and their efforts in providing that which is as yet unavailable, from a Factory producing Ready to Run products! Open beet wagons and CIE vans seem a gaping hole in to days RTR market, just expressing a wish to see an RTR version of same from IRM. That's not a slight on kit vendors, just a customer request for obvious reasons. People used to make their own cloths in the old days, now everything is off the peg and higher quality. As one who was spent many years in a Family Textile Business, I strongly disagree with you on this point. We now live in a throw-away society.  I have suits that are in excess of thirty years of age in my wardrobe That's not belittling people who used to knit their own stuff many decades ago. Many people are knitting in 2020. Time has moved on. Indeed it has, and I hope it shall continue to do so for both our sakes. Unfortunately, consideration, good manners, discipline, and the respect for others stated opinion, presented in a coherent and polite manner have been lost by many inarticulate individuals. 

Thank you for clarifying your opinion, and taking the time and trouble to express it in the manner you chose.

Kindest regards,

David White.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Old Blarney

[Lambeg man]

Woah, woah gents, a bit of calm please. I hope this not 'Cabin Fever' creeping in.

I think Noel has a point, even if he does not put it very succinctly. Equally I agree with Jason B, if anybody wants something so desperately, then fang up the dosh to start the ball rolling. About ten years ago I gave serious consideration to putting the money up for a RTR GNR(I) 'K 15' open second as there was nothing at that time that could even be easily 'bashed'. My plan was that having equipped my self with a dozen or so, I'd be able to sell the rest. Near research at the time indicated I would have had problems shifting ANY. So I found a massive holiday to New Zealand much more attractive.

Like Noel I prefer RTR models to kits. I recently wasted a serious part of my life putting just two Airfix cattle wagon kits together. Maybe with age comes a slight loss of dexterity necessary to put even plastic kits together with an degree of ease. As I get ever nearer to my appointment with the grim reaper, TIME has become more important and therefore a RTR model is more attractive to me personally than a kit.

One option, by which another member has achieved an excellent collection of models is buy the kits AND then pay someone else with the ability to put them together. It is by this method that I have come to eventually possess six good models of 'K 15's. There are several 'kit building' services advertised in the Railway Modeller, so if like me you are no good at kit building, then consider this method. That way you will still support the 'wee guys'.

This website in the past has run items such as "Members Wish Lists for RTR Irish Models" and all those participating must have realized it was largely 'Fantasy Football' as the market simply is not there, especially for older stuff. A 30 year old coming into the Irish railway modelling scene today is hardly going to pine for a 'Jeep' or a GNR 'Compound'. For my part the course of action is, if you are adverse to kit building, is to buy what excellent RTR stuff is now available (or soon to be) and then base your layout around that rather than "I want to model Clones in the 1950's" - ergo please can someone do a RTR GNR 'PP' class and a range of celestory roofed GNR carriages.....

Furthermore I totally agree with DiveController about how apparent spats like this make the website look poor.....

[

What? Oh yeah, I got involved. But I think I got away with it..............

[Mayner]

9 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

Woah, woah gents, a bit of calm please. I hope this not 'Cabin Fever' creeping in.

I think Noel has a point, even if he does not put it very succinctly. Equally I agree with Jason B, if anybody wants something so desperately, then fang up the dosh to start the ball rolling. About ten years ago I gave serious consideration to putting the money up for a RTR GNR(I) 'K 15' open second as there was nothing at that time that could even be easily 'bashed'. My plan was that having equipped my self with a dozen or so, I'd be able to sell the rest. Near research at the time indicated I would have had problems shifting ANY. So I found a massive holiday to New Zealand much more attractive.

Like Noel I prefer RTR models to kits. I recently wasted a serious part of my life putting just two Airfix cattle wagon kits together. Maybe with age comes a slight loss of dexterity necessary to put even plastic kits together with an degree of ease. As I get ever nearer to my appointment with the grim reaper, TIME has become more important and therefore a RTR model is more attractive to me personally than a kit.

One option, by which another member has achieved an excellent collection of models is buy the kits AND then pay someone else with the ability to put them together. It is by this method that I have come to eventually possess six good models of 'K 15's. There are several 'kit building' services advertised in the Railway Modeller, so if like me you are no good at kit building, then consider this method. That way you will still support the 'wee guys'.

This website in the past has run items such as "Members Wish Lists for RTR Irish Models" and all those participating must have realized it was largely 'Fantasy Football' as the market simply is not there, especially for older stuff. A 30 year old coming into the Irish railway modelling scene today is hardly going to pine for a 'Jeep' or a GNR 'Compound'. For my part the course of action is, if you are adverse to kit building, is to buy what excellent RTR stuff is now available (or soon to be) and then base your layout around that rather than "I want to model Clones in the 1950's" - ergo please can someone do a RTR GNR 'PP' class and a range of celestory roofed GNR carriages.....

Furthermore I totally agree with DiveController about how apparent spats like this make the website look poor.....

[

What? Oh yeah, I got involved. But I think I got away with it..............

I ended up taking a one way trip to New Zealand but that's another story. IRM , Accurascale focus on selling wagons that will sell in high volumes like block train wagons, where individual customers are likely to want a complete train of the same or similar wagons rather than items like goods brake vans where a customer  or collector is likely to only buy one or two of a particular item. 

If someone believes that their is sufficient demand (2-3000 minimum)  for a particular model there is nothing to stop them from commissioning a model direct from a manufacturer or launching a crowdfunding appeal https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ho-40-single-sheathed-box-and-auto-cars-1929-70s#/.

How we intend to spend our modelling/leisure time whether its running rtr trains, building models or simply collecting kits and models is one of life's most important decisions, whatever an individual decides is equally valid and should be respected.

While rtr has to a degree decimated kit and component manufacturing, from looking a scratch & kit building threads on IRM, RM Web and other on line groups and on line auction results there is still considerable interest in scratch and kit building, one of the more encouraging things is the interest in scratchbuilding & enthusiasm show by younger modellers entering the hobby like Nelson Jackson and Midland Man. 

I started out scratchbuilding in the 70s out of pure necessity as much as my interest in the oddball and the obscure as I could not afford to buy rtr Hornby or British Trix models on my pocket money as a teenager or wages while serving my apprenticeship. It took many years to develop my skills to build a half decent model form scratch or a kit (I scrapped or ended up re-working most of my early stuff) and although I got side tracked in many directions I would have not done it any other way. (Not sure whether I am starting to sound like  Sinatra or Johnny Rotten singing "I did it my Way" though I would identify more with Johnny Rotten

Edited April 9, 2020 by Mayner

[minister_for_hardship]

A child could put the beet wagon kits together. It's not like it's a brass etched loco kit.

It would help pass the time in this lockdown anyhow.

[Lambeg man]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

Johnny Rotten singing "I did it my Way" 

Sorry to sound pedantic Mayner, but it was Sid Vicious who did the cover of My Way........

[Georgeconna]

I must admit it was a an MIR 141 kit that took me on the Irish route. Previously my memories of Irish stations was used jacks rolls accompanied by the odd human deposit. Normally on my journey to Shannon in the 80;s for a spotting day. Kit building actually made it attactive to me. As time goes on kids get older, Time gets less and less, I could never understand when flying RC in my Twenties that 'old fellas' never had time and had to leave early to cater for familt needs. I find myself in that boat with tens of hundred of kits and too little time to enjoy them!

Embarressingly enough I never bought one of Leslies beet wagons although I admire them for afar, probably in the back of my mind they will be joining the rest of the unbuilts and in 5 years time a nice shiney RTR comes out and the kits put aside or moved on.

 

[Mayner]

17 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

Sorry to sound pedantic Mayner, but it was Sid Vicious who did the cover of My Way........

Yep knew it was Sid Vicious but some how or other came up with Johnny Rotten, woke up yesterday with "My My Hey Hey Out of the Blue" running through my head----------got a lot of work done though!!!!!!!!!!!!.

To a degree I moved back to Irish modelling I moved back to Irish modelling about 20 years ago, when British outline modelling lost its challenge with the explosion of rtr with Bachmann entering the British market and Hornby shifting production to China. I used to enjoy assembling British outline steam locos from DJH & Comet kits taking 6 months to a year to complete each loco only problem was someone would announce or bring out a rtr version shortly after completing the model, much less of a risk with Irish steam era modelling.

[Georgeconna]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

Yep knew it was Sid Vicious but some how or other came up with Johnny Rotten, woke up yesterday with "My My Hey Hey Out of the Blue" running through my head----------got a lot of work done though!!!!!!!!!!!!.

To a degree I moved back to Irish modelling I moved back to Irish modelling about 20 years ago, when British outline modelling lost its challenge with the explosion of rtr with Bachmann entering the British market and Hornby shifting production to China. I used to enjoy assembling British outline steam locos from DJH & Comet kits taking 6 months to a year to complete each loco only problem was someone would announce or bring out a rtr version shortly after completing the model, much less of a risk with Irish steam era modelling.

At Least your Models could pull the skin off a rice Pudding!