IE starter sets

[K801]

Just curious,

would a run of a current IE train, like the 22000 class ( or even a DART)  in a box with oval track and transformer bring a lot more newbies into the hobby?

right now, if someone wanted a starter set, it would be a UK train

[DiveController]

Maybe a Green A class, some laminates and a circle of 21mm track? So the 'kids' get their math correct from the start? 

Edited July 9, 2020 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

I would say that in this day and age, something familiar to younger enthusiasts would be better, though it wouldn't be my thing. The obvious would be an ICR set, or an 071 & half a dozen Taras or ballast wagons; or three or four container flats with containers and a 201.

[Robert Shrives]

ICR 3 car most likely as that is what is seen, the 071/201 container train good as well - need crane and liftable containers for play value as add site.   Equally a 201 and Mk4s as an express train  might give a wow factor.   

Gauge wise to maixmise sales I think 16.5 will be the only way to go - IRM have shown easy to make convertable so it is not a real problem. - Having stocks of 21mm wheelsets for drop in replacements - I wonder on minimum order 10,000 axles?     

 

 

Should have added - most likely wireless radio controlled and on board battery to simplify the get up and go play time would align to current electronics and wifi fever. Also of course idea for parents with no practical skills of wiring so no embarrassment on Christmas day 2022?....  

[Noel]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I would say that in this day and age, something familiar to younger enthusiasts would be better, though it wouldn't be my thing. The obvious would be an ICR set, or an 071 & half a dozen Taras or ballast wagons; or three or four container flats with containers and a 201.

Jonathan you risk being sent to the 'bogie of eternal stench' in the next life for suggesting such blasphemy as a 22k set, you of all people, defender of the 3 link coupling and all things green and black'n'tan.   If one wanted such a plastic toy a yo-yo on a piece of string would offer more operational stimulation. Rumours that Bachmann might produce a 22k sound about as believable as any tweet from the orange man child.

[jhb171achill]

I will prostrate myself accordingly and say six Hail IRMs.....

[murrayec]

11 hours ago, K801 said:

Just curious,

would a run of a current IE train, like the 22000 class ( or even a DART)  in a box with oval track and transformer bring a lot more newbies into the hobby?

 

In my view the only answer to that question is ''yes'', I'm inundated with requests for a DARTs, 22s, the Luas and current stuff by the young folk, or their mums n dads! The kids range from 5 to 12 years and some know about every aspect of the train their interested in, and can tell the difference when mummy buys them a bit of €20.00 junk from the cardboard box under the traders table....

All are very disappointed when I point out the cost of my models and the possible cost of developing a new one!

This is why I have turned to the timber toy dart idea (which development of has ground to a halt because of other work), I have designs for 22s and the Luas to be done the same way, and some of the older stuff including 121s, As, and 071s.

Surprisingly when I show the toy to senior model collectors it sparks interest in ordering one for that grandchild they have who is nagging to play with ones expensive models- and just not allowed- which crushes the interest.

The only problem with a manufactured starter sets is the retail cost- an example is the IR Commuter set which now sells for around €200.00, mummy is just not going to fork out for that.......

 

Eoin

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

 Indeed, Eoin - good points there. If only Thomas the Tank engine had featured an Irish character for commercial exploitation....’Boyne the blue engine, Maedbh the bluey-green engine, Drumm the battery engine, Moin the aromatically smoky engine....’

 

Much as we all cringe at the Hornby GWR tank loco with a flying snail on it, it at least represented a branded ‘Irish’ introduction to the hobby at relatively low cost. Sorry JHB - I know this picture will just ruin your afternoon.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Galteemore

[Robert Shrives]

Good to know Eoin you get multiple requests - and this will be a tip of the iceberg . While some might cough at the price many will not - Bachmann in UK have whacked up prices and stuff still sells. When folk will pay £3 for  cup of average coffee or £200 for sweatshop designer trainers, that sort of price for a model is  good value. 

It is how to get the likes of the good lads at IRM towers to invest in effectively 3 locos worth of work at the same time - it would surely push back other projects as no money tree to hand. At least not the massive variations as seen in the 121 over the years so one set of tooling and one livery so it would only be painted numbers to offer market choice for multiple sets.   The newly released Bachamann 117 at around £270 might be seen as a bench mark. But with tooling and development costs £150K plus is a big ask... 

Robert    

[WRENNEIRE]

I still see this set knocking about, usually in the €250 - €300 range for the one with traffo & track slightly cheaper without.

 

Again this one turns up from time to time and is generally in the €200 bracket

 

 

 

[murrayec]

wrennie

The second one is more applicable, the first one most kids would have no interest in, maybe when they get older the interest may grow towards older trains but it's current stuff their into.

Eoin

[minister_for_hardship]

5 hours ago, murrayec said:

 

The only problem with a manufactured starter sets is the retail cost- an example is the IR Commuter set which now sells for around €200.00, mummy is just not going to fork out for that.......

 

Eoin

 

A decent RC vehicle or drone will cost maybe 150-200 upwards, people spend that kind of money for a child's gift without thinking these days. 

The IR set would be fine as a starter set, seems sturdy enough, no outside moving parts or fiddly bits to break off. It's a repaint, but so what, it's grand for what it is, a starting point.

Many Hornby starter sets are some freelance loco and stock in wildly inaccurate liveries anyhow.

[Noel]

3 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

A decent RC vehicle or drone will cost maybe 150-200 upwards, people spend that kind of money for a child's gift without thinking these days. 

The IR set would be fine as a starter set, seems sturdy enough, no outside moving parts or fiddly bits to break off. It's a repaint, but so what, it's grand for what it is, a starting point.

Many Hornby starter sets are some freelance loco and stock in wildly inaccurate liveries anyhow.

Yea the 1st world has gone a bit daft alright. Fisher Price perhaps best placed to do a 22k set that's indestructible.   

[K801]

If an IE starter set was available, there would than be a market for " add on's"  like more stock to add etc. 

[DiveController]

The models produced by IRM or ECM Trains aren't really toys (for kids), are probably out of the average price range for kids toys, and add-on rolling stock isn't readily available. You're right that a starter kit would be good to promote interest. My previous post was somewhat in jest. Older rolling stock isn't necessarily not of interest. How many of us were given a steam train set as kids after the age of steam had passed? But the comments regarding kids being interested in the modern rolling stock may be correct as this is what they now see. Maybe these will form their nostalgic childhood memories when trains of the future hover and no longer need a permanent way.  

[Noel]

If I buy trains for my grand children it will be Thomas sets with colour and playability with inexpensive durable stock. It might get them to also read the books

Edited July 9, 2020 by Noel

[DiveController]

My daughter has outgrown Thomas but is allowed to play with 'Dad's trains' as she's very respectful of their fragility and can shunt a 141 class very nicely.

I think K801's point is that there is no starter set currently for that older child that is no longer a toddler

[RKX]

I remember getting a, what I imagine was a quite expensive, CIE set, back in the 70s, and had the screws out with a knife, within the hour (I probably wanted to see the "engine" inside the loco). So, a cheap, cheap set for kids is the way to go. Something like a Smokey Joe, with a couple of cheap wagons (usual Shell Oil, stuff, etc.). Something colourful, to catch their interest. Maybe a siding, aswell. 

[WRENNEIRE]

This turns up fairly frequently

 

[DiveController]

2 hours ago, RKX said:

I remember getting a, what I imagine was a quite expensive, CIE set, back in the 70s, and had the screws out with a knife, within the hour (I probably wanted to see the "engine" inside the loco). So, a cheap, cheap set for kids is the way to go. Something like a Smokey Joe, with a couple of cheap wagons (usual Shell Oil, stuff, etc.). Something colourful, to catch their interest. Maybe a siding, aswell. 

Sounds like it would be an Irish livery version of something from the bigger companies then. @WRENNEIRE showed a very passable IE liveried version of a eurostar, maybe a 201 and a single/double coach and a 2nd radius track and a few straights?

[Mayner]

I suppose the big question is whether there is greater demand for an Irish "Starter Set" at the toy or model end of the market.

A wooden 2-3 car Intercity railcar or DART set either locally made or imported would probably be a hit with children in the 3-5 age group as these trains are more likely to fit in with their parents formative experiences.

Bachmann and to a degree Hornby still cater for the entry level toy train market with Thomas the Tank Engine and their more basic models, but an Irish pre-teen or teenager starting out in model railways is more likely to be interested in the trains they see every day railcars and the odd freight than something that attracted their grandparents generation.

In my opinion an existing basic but durable model in IE or Translink colours like the Bachmann IE railcar repaints was a good approach, the Murphy Models (Lima) 201& a rake of Hornby Freightliner wagons would make a nice durable/playable model of a modern container train if Murphy Models & Hornby could find away.