Patricks Layout

[patrick]

 

Bell liner at Keilys Cross.

[Junctionmad]

An 001 class hauling something like 8 or 9 oil wagons with no magnesite wagons was a regular movement on the Ballinacourty branch.

 

Everyone mentions the magnesite trains. But I grew up within ½ mile of the line ,I walked it regularly and got lifts on the train as well, the dolomite hoppers were much more frequent ( from memory ) then the magnesite and double headed to boot

 

Didn't the magnesite have to be exported ( from Tivoli ? )

Edited September 8, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

A comment was made about the west of Ireland look of the layout and superb it is. However as was mentioned for a more west Waterford look dry stone walls would not be that common unless you got into the mountain foothills. The land is too good to have all those stones in it. Hedges were typically earthen with hawthorn etc. the railway boundary from memory was wire fencing long buried in bushes,small trees etc. I was very friendly with one of the plate layers , on the line. The little huts often made of sleepers should not be forgotten as there was typically one every few miles. As would a model of your typical plate layer , the long spanner over one shoulder and the special sledge over the other !

 

I was seven when it closed and had no recollection of hearing rail traffic. But I clearly remember it re-opening , with the sound of the two GM rattling through the night pulling the heavy dolomite trains. We used see the trains squealing through the tight S-curves at Mount Congreve and scattering the boys fishing from the several bridges close to the river

 

The other trains were ballast trains from the quarry at carols cross. The line went through the middle of the quarry and I travelled to Waterford on several ballast specials

 

I beleive Kilmac, was kept open as a block post ? I used to get lifts from the drivers I knew there to kilmeadan

Edited September 8, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Mayner]

I was over the Eastern end of the line twice once on an IRRS special to Kimacthomas and New Ross during the 70s and a final IRRS special on the day the line finally closed. The line was busy with passenger traffic on the final day a Pitzer staff excursion from Ballinacourty and associated ECS working hauled by a pair of 121s and the IRRS special worked by a 001.

 

Kilmac was retained as a crossing loop with a short siding the old goods store at the Western end of the station.

[Junctionmad]

I was over the Eastern end of the line twice once on an IRRS special to Kimacthomas and New Ross during the 70s and a final IRRS special on the day the line finally closed. The line was busy with passenger traffic on the final day a Pitzer staff excursion from Ballinacourty and associated ECS working hauled by a pair of 121s and the IRRS special worked by a 001.

 

Kilmac was retained as a crossing loop with a short siding the old goods store at the Western end of the station.

 

As yes Kilmac layout returns to me now. I boarded a few dolomite trains there over the years

 

I remember the first of the trains scattering boys grown used to no trains along the river

[aclass007]

Everyone mentions the magnesite trains. But I grew up within ½ mile of the line ,I walked it regularly and got lifts on the train as well, the dolomite hoppers were much more frequent ( from memory ) then the magnesite and double headed to boot

 

Didn't the magnesite have to be exported ( from Tivoli ? )

 

I spent a weeks holiday once a year in a house along the line for the last 3 or 4 years of the Ballinacourty workings. As you say, the dolomite trains were more frequent. Two loads a day were brought into the plant, in daylight hours. The magnesite train travelled once a day, and I think it was usually at night. I have a CIE working timetable from that era, and I must check it to see. As already mentioned, The A class with a short rake of oil tanks was a very regular day time movement any time I was there. I think this train was to keep the factory supplied with oil during high consumption periods, and supplemented the oil brought in on the oil/magnesite train. And yes, as far as I know the magnesite was exported from Tivoli.

I was never fortunate enough to travel on the trains though!

Apologies to Patrick, for hi-jacking his thread.....

[StevieB]

Remembering that there would be barrier wagons at each end of the oil tankers, a better consist would be barrier wagon, 4 oil tankers, barrier wagon, 5 magnesite wagons with one of the barrier wagons carrying a 20' container.

 

Stephen

[aclass007]

Remembering that there would be barrier wagons at each end of the oil tankers, a better consist would be barrier wagon, 4 oil tankers, barrier wagon, 5 magnesite wagons with one of the barrier wagons carrying a 20' container.

 

Stephen

 

I have seen pics of these trains with the barrier wagon, yet from memory there was no barrier wagon. The fuel being transported was heavy fuel oil, or something similar, and I think it was possible to travel without a barrier wagon with that type of fuel....

[aclass007]

Also, when the barrier wagon was used, I'd say it would only be between the loco and first oil tank wagon. There wouldn't be a barrier between the last oil tank wagon and first magnesite wagon.

[StevieB]

Remembering that, when the train reversed at Waterford, the consist would be re-arranged so that the loaded portion was next to the engine and railwaymen always looked for the easy life when shunting.

 

Stephen

[Glenderg]

These photos might assist. The "barrier" wagon appears to be no more than a 20' flat, sans container.

 

Cork Shed in the background?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'll notice the wagon below used to be a magnesite wagon that has had it's chamfered hopper filled in to create a larger hopper. Bit of a mongrel

 

 

 

 

Hope they help somewhat. R.

[StevieB]

What a fine selection of photos - are you able to add a few notes on each location, please?

 

Stephen

[Glenderg]

What a fine selection of photos - are you able to add a few notes on each location, please?

 

Stephen

 

Afraid not Stephen, and though I could make a decent effort at guesswork, I'd rather the likes of Riversuir, Enniscorthyman etc. might be able to contribute to confirm locations.

[Riversuir226]

Cork kent between the station and the main depot, Tivoli looking west and east, ballinacourty last 4 pics & pic 3 & 4

[patrick]

Thanks for posting the great selection of photos Glenderg. The third one is espically interesting as it is the first I have seen of the dolomite loading facilities at Bennetsbridge. The nineth photo is the lead/zinc ore loading facilities at Silvermines.

Junctionmad is correct about the stone walls on the layout. Blame a lack of research on my part and "Rails Through The West" which I spent way too much time with. They came out so well and made the scenery look so Irish I got carried away with them and they are the first thing visitors comment on after viewing the layout. They have been bothering me for quite some time now and will be hard to get rid of. Has anyone ideas about modelling hawthorn in October? Time to get out the Woodland Scenics catalogue!

[BosKonay]

Beautiful photos!

[scahalane]

Love this layout Patrick. Great pic's Richie.

[patrick]

 

Being called out on the inappriopate stone walls was impitus needed to do something about them. Any comments, espically from anyone familiar with South West county Waterford would be very welcome.

[aclass007]

Absolutely brilliant photos, Glenderg!

[Riversuir226]

Plenty of ditches normally most stone walls are loose stone usually grey

[StevieB]

You really have produced a very realistic model railway with three areas of operational interest and many pieces of scenic interest - you should get it into print sometime.

 

Stephen

[Junctionmad]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19961[/ATTACH]

 

Being called out on the inappriopate stone walls was impitus needed to do something about them. Any comments, espically from anyone familiar with South West county Waterford would be very welcome.

 

That's much better , I would intersperse it with larger bushes and the area from the boundary to the track would rarely be plain grass, small trees, 8 foot high hawthorn and of course brambles galore, little maintenance was done

 

As I said , as a young boy, I " burst " through many a hedge onto the ex-mallow line. While as you approach the commeraghs , stone gets more obvious , in the rolling fields of west Waterford and east cork , Tipperary etc. it's not a common feature

 

My experience from the early 70s is a badly maintained concrete post fence with three stands of " bull wire " , completely overgrown by bushes, brambles, nettles and hawthorn. Often to 10-15 feet. With the ending of steam , there was much less need to cut back lineside foliage, and it quite rapidly got very extensive. I walked a lot of rail lines at the time around Waterford including the main line and the situation was the same. The railway was less concerned about trespass then it is today as well

 

Don't forget the yellow flower furs ( ? ) bushes , ubiquitous , see that photo above. These would be everywhere

 

Remember this is the golden vale, some of the most productive land in the country. Things grew like crazy. The more open, desolate look is far more characteristic of the west of Ireland.

 

The other feature would be the railway cutting through small standing areas of trees often ash. These " infill " sites were often forgotten or perhaps owned by the railway and ignored. Trees are less common in the west

 

Also, often old ballast long overgrown was dumped , as would be old rails , sleepers , and various misc rail bits in any clear area off track. Often the remnants of lifted branch lines, sidings etc. CIE looked very shoddy from the 70s to the 90s, one can see massive differences in general upkeep from pre-diesel eras , weeds , paper , etc ( maybe too much realism isn't a great idea !!! )

 

I'm amazed this is your first " scenic " layout. If I get anywhere close to your standard. I'll amaze myself. Perhaps you might provide a few detailed descriptions of what you do for ground cover. Forming cuttings , hills etc. I'm in awe

 

 

By the way , the track ballast was overwhelming grey at the time, outside the heavy use areas ( stations , loco and goods depot) , the sleepers tended to weather to a light black, , often with quite a lot of white, rather like timber on a beach. Don't forget the " cess" on both sides of the track too, often in bad repair , the gangers were supposed to maintain its profile , but with declining staff often didn't . Large scale track replacement was not common , it was very much a make do and mend railway

 

Also , many telephone lines by the early seventies had switched to roadside posts and the railway based ones were often only carrying a few lines and the posts were in bad repair. I think cie started ploughing under the ETS quite early on. My grandfather was a post office engineer responsible for maintaining cie ETS and phone lines ( was it the 80s when that ended ? ) I walked many a line with him.

 

( so remove and just leave one or two cross bars on the post , with a few half broken ! )

 

Ungated crossings , capable of taking a car would have been rare by the way, simple farm style gates were used even for animal accommodation crossings etc. of course someone will find a photo ? Remember irish railways , like the UK were " closed railways , theoretically fenced in and forbidden to the public. Very unlike rail in the USA

 

 

Ps as I said I grew up alongside this line, thankfully today a little bit , still has some operational rail on it.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

Plenty of ditches normally most stone walls are loose stone usually grey

 

Of course only in Ireland do " ditches " rise up from the ground !!!!, most other places call them hedgerows

 

Ask the northerners what a " sprong" is , that'll get em

Edited September 9, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Riversuir226]

Edited September 9, 2015 by Riversuir226

[Junctionmad]

I would humanly suggest that railway boundary " walls" were quite different from roadside ones. Roadside ones tended to be maintained and cut whilst railway ones didn't. Hence they were typically higher often much higher , denser and more disorganised. Large trees common enough in roadside " ditches " were uncommon in rail ones. Ditches between fields were equally quite different to railway boundary ditches

[jhb171achill]

A very interesting perspective - lineside detailing is something that many of us (me included) don't research much. I can probably speak for a good few of us in feeling suitably educated!

[Junctionmad]

A very interesting perspective - lineside detailing is something that many of us (me included) don't research much. I can probably speak for a good few of us in feeling suitably educated!

 

Indeed , it has made me stop and think about baseboard construction outside of immediate heavily tracked areas. I think skeleton baseboards offer great ability to undulate the track through the countryside, rarely was anything flat , but the railway was always slightly above or slightly lower then the surrounding countryside , leaving aside cuttings and embankments

[jhb171achill]

My thoughts too, as what I'm putting together (extremely slowly) involves natural terrain which was in reality as "non flat" as any to be found on the planet.... Austrian alpine setting....

[Riversuir226]

In my view it makes or breaks a layout especially one that is based on a particular area. West Waterford compared to East Waterford are totally different especially railway wise, for example the Tramore to Waterford line architecture is different even down to gate posts, the local geography is radically different even down to the rock type which does effect the building of lines especially with cuttings and embankments. West Waterford was heavily effected by glaciation which leads to deep valleys whereas East Waterford was much more effected by an earlier period which goes back to the jurassic period. Look at the cliffs over Sallypark for example the ancient rock folds are visible.

[Glenderg]

I would humanly suggest that railway boundary " walls" were quite different from roadside ones. Roadside ones tended to be maintained and cut whilst railway ones didn't. Hence they were typically higher often much higher , denser and more disorganised. Large trees common enough in roadside " ditches " were uncommon in rail ones. Ditches between fields were equally quite different to railway boundary ditches

 

The roads in ireland that are windy indicate that the land is good, so the local authorities bought the land to existing boundaries. Poor land, boggy stuff, marsh ground etc. is usually straight because the land was cheap. So in effect, road boundaries are around for a hell of a lot longer than rail boundaries.

 

The rail companies just bought the land and engineered through it. They usually erected the bare minimum of a boundary. The farmer was responsible for his animals if they broke onto the line. Of all the times I clambered around the Lmk -Lmk Jct line growing up, I don't remember a similar stretch of boundary from one field to the next. Variety is the key, as Riversuir has described with his photos.

 

Here's a selection of photos showing the type of ditches etc. lineside from the period.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riversuir226]

Edited September 9, 2015 by Riversuir226

[jhb171achill]

Excellent photographs.

 

Prompts me to revisit my own just to have a look at peripheral areas out of curiosity....

[patrick]

 

Thanks for all the great comments photos and suggestions. They have made getting rid of my beloved stone walls less painful. More foliage has been added since the last layout photo and now the search is on for small trees and maybe a few evergreens (spruce, pine?) which I have noticed in photos of the area. I am contemplating building a small"Rails Through The West" style diorama with stone walls to illustrate my layout building techniques and present it as a tutorial on the site.

Edited September 9, 2015 by patrick

[Noel]

They have made getting rid of my beloved stone walls less painful.

 

Your layout and scenic work is fabulous Patrick. I love the look of it with and without the stone walls. Personally the stones walls looked the biz as they reminded me of the western line outside Galway, but I understand your reasons for removing them. However it has inspired me to plan such walls on our layout when I get around to some rural scenic sections. Your foliage looks superb.

[StevieB]

Look forward to your tutorial.

 

Stephen