British locos and stock that can be disguised as Irish

[Westcorkrailway]

I’ll start with the obvious ones 

SECR N class- MGWR K class

LMS jinty- NCC Jinty

LMS compound- V class 

Adams radial-BCDR tanks 

jubilee class-GSR 800 class

08 Shunter-CIE D Class shunter

Ruston 88ds- CSE Ruston 88

Hornby pecket- Allmans distillery pecket

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[Westcorkrailway]

3 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I’ll start with the obvious ones 

SECR N class- MGWR K class

LMS jinty- NCC Jinty

LMS compound- V class 

Adams radial-BCDR tanks 

jubilee class-GSR 800 class

 

my example of GSR 479 made from an Adams radial 

In fact once you remove the cylinder, this loco could become many Irish prototypes 

Fowler 2-6-4t - NCC WT class

Dean goods- J15

 

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

BR Mk. 1 full parcels brake = CIE “BR” genny van 

Plus of course, numerous Mk 2 & Mk 3 carriages….

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

BR Mk. 1 full parcels brake = CIE “BR” genny van 

Plus of course, numerous Mk 2 & Mk 3 carriages….

MK3 and MK4 coach -Irish mark iv coach (DVT had no realistic option)

hattons genisis coaches have similarities to designs over here, I’m sure @jhb171achill can elaborate on which ones 

obviously a lot of early CIE wagons have parallels to BR wagons 

GSR/CIE Pullman cars perhaps

SR schools class - GNR VS class

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[Andy Cundick]

LNWR 4'6" 2-42-ts, to DSER,, Hibberd diesel,  Shell/BP, Ruston 165 ,CSE, none of which need to be disguised,Andy.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

MK3 and MK4 coach -Irish mark iv coach (DVT had no realistic option)

hattons genisis coaches have similarities to designs over here, I’m sure @jhb171achill can elaborate on which ones 

obviously a lot of early CIE wagons have parallels to BR wagons 

GSR/CIE Pullman cars perhaps

SR schools class - GNR VS class

 

 

The GSR Pullman cars were a bit like De Dietrichs, 800 or the Fintona tram in that they were specific in their use and location. There were just four, and only one per train. One each was on the up and down day mails between Dublin and Cork, and Dublin & Galway. So you’re going to need Bredins and GSWR wooden stock to run with them, with a “Maedb” or a 400 or possibly a Woolwich up front. 

But yes, in theory, 2-foot rule, just repaint green. Also they had different window spacing, different ends, and matchboard lower panelling.

Ive an idea they had different bogies too, though I’d need to check that.

[Galteemore]

The Pullmans had standard Pullman design bogies, apparently constructed by the LMS , who presumably had more experience than most UK concerns in building 5’3” bogie stock…..

[Northroader]

The NER/LNER J72 0-6-0T “Joem “ are very close dimensionally to the MGWR E / GSR J26 “Bat”, which lasted long, and got out into odd corners.

If you cut a foot off the back of a GWR 2251 0-6-0, the chassis is a good match for the MGWR L / GSR J18/19, although the superstructure will need a lot of work.

[jhb171achill]

There are a number of British 0.6.0s which with little more than perhaps replacing the cab with something "Inchicore-looking" could pass off as a "generic" Irish loco.

Bear in mind, if modelling is based on a "three foot rule", that the best locos for a scenario like this will almost certainly be tender 0.6.0s. yes, the LNER J72 can indeed look very MGWR "E" class - just drop it into a pot of grey paint!

Many 4.4.0s also will look "half-Irish" if painted blue for GNR or grey for GSR / CIE. I have seen posts here and there of some very nice conversions of 2.6.0s or 4.6.0s into Irish versions.

[Westcorkrailway]

35 minutes ago, Northroader said:

The NER/LNER J72 0-6-0T “Joem “ are very close dimensionally to the MGWR E / GSR J26 “Bat”, which lasted long, and got out into odd corners.

If you cut a foot off the back of a GWR 2251 0-6-0, the chassis is a good match for the MGWR L / GSR J18/19, although the superstructure will need a lot of work.

Disguised J26 (J72) 

More accurate model of J26

these were a very universal machine making it to small lines like Courtmacsherry, Tramore and fenit. So if you wanted to make a shunting layout of a terminus on a small branch, these would be the job. SSM also make a kit for these locos

[jhb171achill]

While not to the taste of all (what livery is?), a "generic" repaint of a British loco as an Irish one will look more convincing if it is in the grey - as black can simply look like unlined BR! If BR had painted their engines grey instead of black and put big pale yellow numbers on them, it would be the other way round.....

[Westcorkrailway]

28 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

While not to the taste of all (what livery is?), a "generic" repaint of a British loco as an Irish one will look more convincing if it is in the grey - as black can simply look like unlined BR! If BR had painted their engines grey instead of black and put big pale yellow numbers on them, it would be the other way round.....

In this particular case, the modeller  is not a fan of GSR/CIE grey…hence why black was chosen. He still has not come round to putting transfers on! 

[StevieB]

The Triang/Hornby L1 4-4-0 is similar to many Irish 4-4-0’s.

Stephen

[Hadren Railway]

Quite an obvious example, but the LMS 2P makes for a very easy conversion into a U2 (hardly surprising, they were both Derby designs).

[Richard EH]

Still seems a shame Hornby haven't done a U2 from their 2P, such an open goal for them!

Richard.

[Hadren Railway]

40 minutes ago, Richard EH said:

Still seems a shame Hornby haven't done a U2 from their 2P, such an open goal for them!

Or a Jeep with their Fowler tank, for that matter.

[David Holman]

The standard RCH tank wagon is one of very few common to both sides of the water and lasted from the early 1900s into the 1960s.

[Noel]

Bachmann LMS Parcel Van for a CIE Brake Parcel van? (A few physical tweaks but nothing major)

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Noel

[Noel]

Lima BSK = CIE BR Mk1 GSV with some kit bashing

Hornby BR Mk3 = IR/IE Mk3 (sort of)

Bachmann GWR Ventilated Vans = CIE exGSWR Vans

Dapol GWR Vent Vans = CIE Vans

Hornby/Tri-Ang GWR Toad Brake van = exGSWR brake van (some poetic license)

Edited January 30, 2022 by Noel

[Dempsey]

Ex Hornby mk4 swallow livery into enterprise liveries 

[DoctorPan]

 

Hornby LMS Railroad coaches look Bredin esque to cover the 2ft rule.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, DoctorPan said:

 

Hornby LMS Railroad coaches look Bredin esque to cover the 2ft rule.

I've two of these in LMS livery.

They are indeed a good "2-ft rule" approximation for Bredins or CIE 1951-3 series, or even some sort of broadly generic "laminate", but by simply repainting the silver roof dark grey and deleting the letters "LMS" from the sides, you've actually exact GSR livery they had as new, correct lining and all; at that time the GSR, LMS and NCC used the same maroon and even had identical lining (NCC latterly less or no lining).

So I'm holding the two I have for eventual use as weathered "Bredins" still in GSR livery, once I've enough six wheelers in the older green to surround them with, for a late 1940s or early-1950s version of operating. (Need more ancient-design wagons and two more steam locos as well).

[Westcorkrailway]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I've two of these in LMS livery.

They are indeed a good "2-ft rule" approximation for Bredins or CIE 1951-3 series, or even some sort of broadly generic "laminate", but by simply repainting the silver roof dark grey and deleting the letters "LMS" from the sides, you've actually exact GSR livery they had as new, correct lining and all; at that time the GSR, LMS and NCC used the same maroon and even had identical lining (NCC latterly less or no lining).

So I'm holding the two I have for eventual use as weathered "Bredins" still in GSR livery, once I've enough six wheelers in the older green to surround them with, for a late 1940s or early-1950s version of operating. (Need more ancient-design wagons and two more steam locos as well).

So there is a chance we will see very rare GSR era snaps of Dugort harbour someday?!

 

I’m waiting for hattons genesis coaches come out, and if there as good as they look, I’ll paint them in post 1955 CIE green

[DoctorPan]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I've two of these in LMS livery.

They are indeed a good "2-ft rule" approximation for Bredins or CIE 1951-3 series, or even some sort of broadly generic "laminate", but by simply repainting the silver roof dark grey and deleting the letters "LMS" from the sides, you've actually exact GSR livery they had as new, correct lining and all; at that time the GSR, LMS and NCC used the same maroon and even had identical lining (NCC latterly less or no lining).

So I'm holding the two I have for eventual use as weathered "Bredins" still in GSR livery, once I've enough six wheelers in the older green to surround them with, for a late 1940s or early-1950s version of operating. (Need more ancient-design wagons and two more steam locos as well).

Yeah, they look good in GSR guise as well

[Richard EH]

On 30/1/2022 at 1:06 PM, Hadren Railway said:

Or a Jeep with their Fowler tank, for that matter.

Fowler tank needs a bit more work to get it there, I've a thread on here somewhere on how to do that...

 

Richard.

[Niles]

The DSER had some LNWR-built 2-4-2Ts, I think of Webb design. Curiously at least one of them was subsequently regauged to 4'8.5 and ended up in a colliery in GB. 

I don't know if there's a kit (doubt RTR?) for that type but someone will know I'm sure.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Niles

[Killian Keane]

35 minutes ago, Niles said:

The DSER had some LNWR-built 2-4-2Ts, I think of Webb design. Curiously at least one of them was subsequently regauged to 4'8.5 and ended up in a colliery in GB. 

I don't know if there's a kit (doubt RTR?) for that type but someone will know I'm sure.

Aye, the DSER bought 6 of them in 1902, London Road Models make a kit of them (as well as, incidentally, the 'Special Tanks' of the same design as used on the Dundalk Newry and Greenore Rly)

 

[jhb171achill]

Any idea what "C C C" means - presumably something "coal company"?

[Mayner]

39 minutes ago, Niles said:

The DSER had some LNWR-built 2-4-2Ts, I think of Webb design. Curiously at least one of them was subsequently regauged to 4'8.5 and ended up in a colliery in GB. 

I don't know if there's a kit (doubt RTR?) for that type but someone will know I'm sure.

The 6 ex-LNWR 4'6" 2-4-2Ts did not last too long in their original condition on the DSER one No64 was re-built with a new boiler and cylinders in 1914, the remaining 5 were returned to the UK during WW1 mainly for industrial use.

Apart from the small driving wheels and side tanks the re-built No64/427 resembled a DSER rather than a Webb loco with a high pitched boiler, DSER cab, boiler fittings.

Ironically Robinson's pair of WLWR 2-4-2T 13 & 14 look similar to the LNWR 5'6" 2-4-2T, both 13 & 14 survived into the mid 1930s with relatively minor modification as 267 and 491. The GSWR sold  13 (GSWR 266) to the Cork Macroom Direct in the early 1900s, following the amalgamation the loco grouped with CMDR rather than the  GSWR locos and received a different class designation (F5) to 266 Inchacore apparently forgetting that the two locos were nearly identical.

GEM produced whitemetal kits of both the Webb 4'6" and 5'6" 2-4-2T the 5'6" would be a reasonable choice for a rtr model potentially available in LNWR, LMS and British Railways schemes

[Niles]

Checked my trusty copy of Shepherd & Beesley's The Dublin & South Eastern Railway; Cramlington Coal Company is where some ended up.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Niles

[Killian Keane]

11 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Any idea what "C C C" means - presumably something "coal company"?

Cramlington Coal Company 

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

Cramlington Coal Company 

Was thinking Carrickbrack, Carrickmines and Camolin Railway............

[jhb171achill]

On 31/1/2022 at 9:04 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

So there is a chance we will see very rare GSR era snaps of Dugort …..

Once I get everything 1955-65 up’n’running, the next stage is a world of grey steam engines (in somewhat cleaner state than CIE had them!) and a mix of maroon and darker green carriages to depict 1945-49.

Hence my continual whinging about six-wheelers!

I have high hopes for the Genesis coaches from Hattons….

We now have the excellent KMCE Models producing the sort of ancient goods stock in common use in GSR days (and later). Provincial Leslie does the GSWR guards van, so we’re sorted!

Once someone does a RTR 6w chassis, turf wagons can be made up out of just about any oul junk in the spare bits box….

[Westcorkrailway]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Once I get everything 1955-65 up’n’running, the next stage is a world of grey steam engines (in somewhat cleaner state than CIE had them!) and a mix of maroon and darker green carriages to depict 1945-49.

Hence my continual whinging about six-wheelers!

I have high hopes for the Genesis coaches from Hattons….

We now have the excellent KMCE Models producing the sort of ancient goods stock in common use in GSR days (and later). Provincial Leslie does the GSWR guards van, so we’re sorted!

Once someone does a RTR 6w chassis, turf wagons can be made up out of just about any oul junk in the spare bits box….

if anyone feels like bodging a few 6 wheelers be my guest!

I more then likely will be getting genesis coaches of some description, and many of us will. I don’t think many will be trying to make one of these Emergency era……wagons?

[Galteemore]

35 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

if anyone feels like bodging a few 6 wheelers be my guest!

I more then likely will be getting genesis coaches of some description, and many of us will. I don’t think many will be trying to make one of these Emergency era……wagons?

@jhb171achillwould still prefer travelling in one of those to an ICR….