spudfan Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 The old maxim of "measure twice, cut once" does not seem to have been followed here. I wonder if this had happened on Irish Rail would anyone have been held responsible or the units just stored in Inchicore as a new expensive sound barrier? $276 million was spent on 31 Spanish trains before it was realized they were too big to fit in the tunnels (msn.com) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 These things happen all the time - often a problem of inheriting structures from a time before national standardisation. The French spent a lot of time grinding bits off platform edges about a decade ago. - and there are platforms at Clapham Junction that aren't used for passengers, as the gap is felt to be too wide for people to be expected to mind... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRENNEIRE Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 too wide for people to be expected to mind... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Dangerous Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 More heads rolling: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64717605 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinner75 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 43 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said: More heads rolling: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64717605 Same heads that rolled in the first post on this thread! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, skinner75 said: Same heads that rolled in the first post on this thread! They wouldn't fit in the guillotine the first time... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Dunno what all the fuss is about. All they have to do is tell the passengers to sit closer together..... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connollystn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Reading through the article you can see that none of the trains were constructed as the manufacturer [CAF] double checked the measurements before they commenced the job. A bit of a storm in a teacup if you ask me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) Possibly the "political' embarrassment of the trains arriving later than scheduled and the parties arguing over who would pay the additional design and manufacturing costs, or was liable for the loss in revenue as a result of late delivery. I worked for many years in project management one of my main roles was ensuring we had our bases covered when (not if) we experienced delays or expenses as a result of incorrect information provided by the client or design consultants. Usually a good opportunity to come to the rescue and speed up the project 'for a price" There was similar criticism at the money and time spent by BR? improving clearances on the Tonbridge-Hastings Line in order to operate 3rd rail Networker Units during the 1990s, completely ignoring the savings on building a 'standard' train that could operate anywhere on the SR 3rd network as opposed to building and operating non-standard stock for lines with a restricted loading gauge line Tonbridge-Hastings or even worse non-electrified enclaves on an electrified system such as Ashford-Hastings, Oxted and Uxbridge. Edited February 22, 2023 by Mayner 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Dangerous Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 20 hours ago, skinner75 said: Same heads that rolled in the first post on this thread! Sounds like two more, on top of the first two... 3 hours ago, connollystn said: Reading through the article you can see that none of the trains were constructed as the manufacturer [CAF] double checked the measurements before they commenced the job. A bit of a storm in a teacup if you ask me. As @Maynersays, it's the political fallout, the trains being delivered two years behind schedule, plus the indirect costs. Much as they claim no financial loss, that's extremely unlikely. On top of that, there's a loss of confidence in those responsible. If they get this wrong, what else can they be trusted with? So out with the guillotine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said: Sounds like two more, on top of the first two... As @Maynersays, it's the political fallout, the trains being delivered two years behind schedule, plus the indirect costs. Much as they claim no financial loss, that's extremely unlikely. On top of that, there's a loss of confidence in those responsible. If they get this wrong, what else can they be trusted with? So out with the guillotine! Off with their heads! The Spanish Inquisition has been informed…. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connollystn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said: On top of that, there's a loss of confidence in those responsible. If they get this wrong, what else can they be trusted with? So out with the guillotine! Wonder if the same applies to someone who says that there's going to be a major announcement 'next month' and that time has almost passed without a whisper......... 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Dangerous Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, connollystn said: Wonder if the same applies to someone who says that there's going to be a major announcement 'next month' and that time has almost passed without a whisper......... 24th / 25th / 26th are yet to come... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 hours ago, jhb171achill said: The Spanish Inquisition has been informed…. I didn't expect that... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galteemore Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Not the comfy chair ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 12/2/2023 at 10:44 AM, spudfan said: The old maxim of "measure twice, cut once" does not seem to have been followed here. I wonder if this had happened on Irish Rail would anyone have been held responsible or the units just stored in Inchicore as a new expensive sound barrier? $276 million was spent on 31 Spanish trains before it was realized they were too big to fit in the tunnels (msn.com) Deafening silence when quizzed by media 'no one available for comment' - state bodies here tend to circle the wagons (pardon the pun) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I'm reminded of the time we wanted a foot of 30mm brass bar, but a spare bit and some to be tested seemed a good idea, so a metre was decided to be the amount. Due to our bizarre computer system, we need to order 1,000mm, rather than 1m. This was no problem, until the typist missed the second m. The bemused look from the lorry driver when I responded to "Where do you want it?" with "Just leave it under my desk." "I've got two lorry loads outside..." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 12/2/2023 at 11:44 PM, spudfan said: I wonder if this had happened on Irish Rail would anyone have been held responsible or the units just stored in Inchicore as a new expensive sound barrier? The nearest recent example was IE buying Alstom 2700 Sparrow railcars and DART units during the 1990 which turned out to be less reliable and more expensive to maintain than Mitsui/Rotem & CAF units. It was common enough "Back in the Day' with Engineers forced to resign or promoted sideways as a result of problems with new locos. The Dublin Wicklow and Wexford ran into problems in the 1890s when the position of Locomotive Superintendent was abolished as an economy measure and mechanical engineering made subordinate to the Civil Engineers office and two classes of locos with significant design defects ordered a pair of large 0-6-2T for main line goods duties and four express passenger 4-4-0s. The 0-6-2T were too heavy for the DWWR and re-built as 0-6-0 Goods Locos 448&449. The 4-4-0s were poor steamers and required re-building with larger boilers. The DWWR reinstated the role of Locomotive Superintendent and recruited Robert Cronin the GSWR Inchacore Works Foreman who was more than up to the challenge of DWWR locomotive matters. The rejection of the modern and powerful Highland Railway River Class 4-6-0s and sale to the Caledonian at the height of WW1 apparently as a result of a dispute between the mechanical and civil engineering departments is probably one of the best known UK examples. The Rivers were rejected as a result of a disagreement between the companies Chief Mechanical and Chief Civil engineers as a result of which the CME was forced to resign, ironically the Rivers were lighter on the track than the "Clan" 4-6-0s built to replace them and the Rivers ended their days working the Highland Main Line. The majority of the GSWR 400 Class 4 cylinder 4-6-0s were re-built as 2 cylinder locos by the GSR to improved reliability and reduce maintenance and running costs, a difficult working relationship between the CME Watson (an ex-GWR Swindon man) and the Joynt the Inchacore Chief Draftsman who worked under Coey and Mansuell) may have been a factor in some of the design faults in the original 400s. Watson resigned to take up a role as Beyer Peacock General Manager, JR Bazin a (Doncaster man) was appointed a GSWR and later GSR CME. The relationship between the CME and chief draftsman appears to have returned to normality following Bazin's appointment, the design defects that plagued the 400 Class were eliminated from the 500 Class 4-6-0s a 2 cylinder mixed traffic version of the 400 Class, though Inchacore appears to have lost the ability to build successful steam locos during the late 20s early 30s turning out what Sean Kennedy described as 'hot water locos" until the 800 Class appeared during the late 30s 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Mayner said: The relationship between the CME and chief draftsman appears to have returned to normality Somewhere, I have a biography of Anthony Fokker. The author spent some time interviewing Rheinhold Platz, his chief designer, in the early 1960s. To aid the discussion, the author brought a lot of Fokker's notes about tests and preliminary ideas. Platz said that he had never seen most of this before that visit, Fokker would tell him as little as possible and leave him to 'just guess' what he was supposed to be doing... Sometimes it worked, but they made a lot of weird stuff that never got very far and was just forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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