jhb171achill Posted March 10 Posted March 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, leslie10646 said: Just a minor correction, Oh Exulted Jonathan. I produced THREE different GNR vans as kits (10 ton fitted and unfitted and the 9 ton which is noticeably smaller. My RTR Dapols are very close to the GNR Bagged Cement vans of 1953 / 4. I've done those in two GNR runs, plus the Snail version and the more recent "Brown" and "Wheel" versions - and another GNR number to come in April ...... You're dead right about the "Convertible" bands, but not so many of us model early enough? Surely they were history my mid-1950s? @Mol_PMB take a look at my lovely GSWR 10 ton brake - still around iun 1960s. I defer to your greater knowledge, Mr. Provincial; of whose wares I am an extremely contented customer! This very day I found five of your kits, unmade-up, which had become mired within the disorganised primeval soup which outsiders see as my “study”! That's this coming week occupied…. Edited March 10 by jhb171achill Quote
Mayner Posted March 10 Posted March 10 On 9/3/2025 at 9:16 AM, jhb171achill said: As for open wagons, they are the one thing where many British prototypes CAN be used. The British ones and our ones (main companies; not all!) were all standard types of designs. The West Cork system were non-standard (as with most things!), The final batch of 20 Bandon opens were "Standard Irish" Open Wagons added to a 1920 GSWR order of 200 opens placed with Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon. The "Standard" Irish Railway Clearing House (IRCH) open was introduced during WW1 and used by the CBSCR,GN, GSWR & Midland and basically the Standard open wagon up to the introduction of the Bulleid opens in 1956. The majority of 'Standard opens" appear to have been built on a steel underframe (with variation in axleguard detail), though the GN and some GSR opens had wooden underframes. Main spotting difference between Irish and LMS 5 plank opens were the Irish wagons were had six plank sides and ends and Irish single lever brakegear quite unlike the LMS wagons in appearance. My version of the Standard Open based on drawing of a GSWR wagon was my second best seller after the CIE 20T Brake van was 21mm convertible. One customer bought the chassis separately to convert British Outline to Irish Outline wagons. To follow on from Lesley, JM Design produced 3 variations of the CIE 20T Brake mainly in RTR format, GSWR/GSR/CIE Standard Open, CIE LMA Covered Wagon (1952) CIE 1946 H Van, GSWR/GSR/CIE Covered Van Planked & Sheeted Body, GSR/Ranks Bulk Grain in RTR & Kit format between 2021-2024. No l;onger produced but may show up on seccond hand market. Leslies large GNR van Covered Wagon is the same design as Vans built for the MGWR & GSR, the Midland being the Midland built roughly 1/2 of its IRCH Standard Covered Wagons as Convertibles with a removable canvas cover to the centre of the roof, but the same profile as a H (hard topped) Van. Those that hanker after an old style arc roof Convertible SSM produce white metal kits of both the GSWR & MGWR versions some of which survived in to the late 50s. One of my favourite photos from this era is of a Mail Train being made up at Sligo a mix of almost new Bulleid 4W Heating & Luggage vans topping and tailing a MGWR 6w TPO dating from the 1880s and a MGWR Fish/Meat van from the early 1890s, most likely hauled to Mullingar by a Silver A CLass 4 Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 10 Posted March 10 12 hours ago, Mayner said: One of my favourite photos from this era is of a Mail Train being made up at Sligo a mix of almost new Bulleid 4W Heating & Luggage vans topping and tailing a MGWR 6w TPO dating from the 1880s and a MGWR Fish/Meat van from the early 1890s, most likely hauled to Mullingar by a Silver A CLass That’s exactly why I like this era for modelling. Literally nine decades can be seen in traffic in a single photo. At least one old six-wheel postal van, built in 1877, saw in the 1960s, while you could get a two month old carriage and a seventy year old one in the same train, hauled either by a brand new C or an 80-year-old J15….. And everything in between. And the youth of today think that Cork’s 26s are old! 2 1 Quote
BSGSV Posted March 10 Posted March 10 On 3/3/2025 at 6:26 PM, Mol_PMB said: Certainly into the Irish Rail era… When I found and uploaded this photo a couple of years ago it was with some from Mullingar and I captioned it as Mullingar, but I’m having second thoughts now. I think it might be Gort. Anyway, a brown H van dumped in a siding in the early 1990s, note the IR and Irish Cement sign on the goods shed. Yes, It is Gort. The shunter "missed" dropping the handbrake on it as it went into the siding, and it hit the stops with a bang, which left one axlebox bent out. Couldn't move then... The delights of unbraked stock. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 10 Posted March 10 22 hours ago, leslie10646 said: I produced THREE different GNR vans as kits (10 ton fitted and unfitted and the 9 ton which is noticeably smaller. @Mol_PMB take a look at my lovely GSWR 10 ton brake - still around iun 1960s. I could be tempted - my willpower is about as strong as a chocolate fireguard and my bank account has just swerved a major expense at IRM towrs! On the other hand I do have quite a backlog of stuff to build, so no rush. How is your re-stocking programme going? Is the 10t brake van this type? I must confess I haven't yet found any photos of them still in use in the 1960s but then I haven't looked everywhere yet; there are a fair few photos of them in the 1950s but I guess most were replaced by the 30t brakes built in 1960. N.B. the colour photo above shows van 8554 with 'eau de nil' lettering. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253429200 Hopefully there are still a couple of those GNR 10t goods vans with my name on them too. I quite fancy doing one of them in this rare 'snail on brown' livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990 1 Quote
StevieB Posted March 13 Posted March 13 My purchase arrived earlier this week, love the Accurascale packing as opposed to the IRM packaging. Stephen Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 I see that some of the H vans and grain wagons are getting close to selling out, especially the brown ones: https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irm-wagons Hopefully the orders are holding up and will help to justify some further model developments. I get the impression I'm not the only one to be attracted to Irish modelling by the quality of IRM's products! 1 1 Quote
Colin R Posted March 14 Posted March 14 30 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: I see that some of the H vans and grain wagons are getting close to selling out, especially the brown ones: https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irm-wagons Hopefully the orders are holding up and will help to justify some further model developments. I get the impression I'm not the only one to be attracted to Irish modelling by the quality of IRM's products! I would like to see a second batch of Grain wagons with the snail in grey and with different numbers, if not then I will have to buy a second box and change the numbers myself Does anyone know if the Grain wagons had the red oxide livery with the snail motif on them at the same time? Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 14 Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Colin R said: I would like to see a second batch of Grain wagons with the snail in grey and with different numbers, if not then I will have to buy a second box and change the numbers myself Does anyone know if the Grain wagons had the red oxide livery with the snail motif on them at the same time? Nothing brown ever had a snail, as the logo changed in 1963, but the brown livery didn’t start until 1970. 1 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Colin R said: I would like to see a second batch of Grain wagons with the snail in grey and with different numbers, if not then I will have to buy a second box and change the numbers myself Does anyone know if the Grain wagons had the red oxide livery with the snail motif on them at the same time? The red-brown livery was introduced in 1970, several years after the snail had been replaced by the roundel. For grain wagons, the answer to your question is a definite no. In the 1950s the GNR had followed the British Railways practice of painting vacuum brake fitted freight stock in red-brown livery, and unfitted stock in grey. Some of the GNR fitted vans inherited by CIE did receive a snail on red-brown livery in the late 1950s. This was rather rare and would not apply to grain wagons as (a) they weren't ex-GNR and (b) they weren't vac-fitted. Here is a snail on a former GNR fitted van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 14 Posted March 14 So, in general, CIE wagon liveries were: 1945: mid grey, same as GSR or LMS in Britain, with take green painted snail and number. Mid-50s: Grey, but snail and number become white. Late 50s: Same again but snail becomes a stencil. Circa 1960/1: lighter grey starts being used, white stencilled snail. 1963: very gradually, snails replaced by “roundel” in white in existing stock but with white letters and a tan surround on new vans (H & Palvan) 1970: After seven years of the roundel, brown livery. By 1976/7 when the last loose-coupled goods ran, only some 60%~ish of vans were brown - many were still grey. With bogie stock (eg ferts), brown with white roundels and numbers continues 1987: After CIE is broken up, roundels discontinued. No logo at all on operating wagons, but some tankers and departmental stock, and a handful of oddballs, got the “set-of-points” logo. 10 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: The red-brown livery was introduced in 1970, several years after the snail had been replaced by the roundel. For grain wagons, the answer to your question is a definite no. In the 1950s the GNR had followed the British Railways practice of painting vacuum brake fitted freight stock in red-brown livery, and unfitted stock in grey. Some of the GNR fitted vans inherited by CIE did receive a snail on red-brown livery in the late 1950s. This was rather rare and would not apply to grain wagons as (a) they weren't ex-GNR and (b) they weren't vac-fitted. Here is a snail on a former GNR fitted van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990 Indeed - rare indeed. With Inchicore turning out “H” vans as quickly as they could at the time, few GNR vans beyond the “H-like” Drogheda cement vans saw CIE markings at all before their demise, though a tiny handful survived to get post-1970 brown…. 1 1 Quote
Colin R Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Thanks, guys. So, one last question: What would have been the typical length of a grain train with 6,9 or more wagons in it? 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, Colin R said: Thanks, guys. So, one last question: What would have been the typical length of a grain train with 6,9 or more wagons in it? Normally the grain wagons would have been marshalled into a general freight, often as a block coupled together since their origin and destination may well have been the same. Maybe around 6 grain wagons together. Often they were a mix of the type modelled by IRM and the older GSR version modelled by JM Design. The GNR also had some bulk grain vans, but I don't think those lasted as long. 2 Quote
Galteemore Posted March 14 Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Colin R said: Sadly for some reason I can't access Flickr Are you an IRRS member Colin? The photo archive link only works if you are. 1 Quote
Colin R Posted March 14 Posted March 14 OK, Thanks, I hope John will try for another batch of his red grain wagons 14 minutes ago, Galteemore said: Are you an IRRS member Colin? The photo archive link only works if you are. No sadly not at present Quote
leslie10646 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 On 10/3/2025 at 8:37 PM, Mol_PMB said: I could be tempted - my willpower is about as strong as a chocolate fireguard and my bank account has just swerved a major expense at IRM towrs! On the other hand I do have quite a backlog of stuff to build, so no rush. How is your re-stocking programme going? Is the 10t brake van this type? I must confess I haven't yet found any photos of them still in use in the 1960s but then I haven't looked everywhere yet; there are a fair few photos of them in the 1950s but I guess most were replaced by the 30t brakes built in 1960. N.B. the colour photo above shows van 8554 with 'eau de nil' lettering. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253429200 Hopefully there are still a couple of those GNR 10t goods vans with my name on them too. I quite fancy doing one of them in this rare 'snail on brown' livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257197990 Yes, that's the brake van which I do. Your name IS on two 10 ton vans! My stock is rather low pre Bangor - I WAS planning retirement - instead I'll fulfil various needs with nnew stock in the late Spring / early Summer. The orders are in. I should explain that the guy who took over Michael's business ("My Modeller") had some issues which slowed up delivery, but things look more hopeful and I may put off the evil day, if I'm spared. I've spent the last couple of days laying out proposals for two new wagons (one a short re-run) but the other quite new; plus a possible new container. Watch this space. 5 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 36 minutes ago, leslie10646 said: Yes, that's the brake van which I do. Your name IS on two 10 ton vans! My stock is rather low pre Bangor - I WAS planning retirement - instead I'll fulfil various needs with nnew stock in the late Spring / early Summer. The orders are in. I should explain that the guy who took over Michael's business ("My Modeller") had some issues which slowed up delivery, but things look more hopeful and I may put off the evil day, if I'm spared. I've spent the last couple of days laying out proposals for two new wagons (one a short re-run) but the other quite new; plus a possible new container. Watch this space. Excellent. I'm pleased you have granted yourself a reprieve (or is it an extended sentence?) and look forward to hearing about the new proposals... 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 14 Posted March 14 5 hours ago, Colin R said: Thanks, guys. So, one last question: What would have been the typical length of a grain train with 6,9 or more wagons in it? No grain trains, as such. Instead, the normal goods train, containing H vans, palvans, Bullied opens, etc, stopped off and collected / delivered grain vans at stations. Thats why they’re so suitable for layouts. You can run them mixed in with all the other stuff. 1 1 Quote
ttc0169 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 48 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: No grain trains, as such. Instead, the normal goods train, containing H vans, palvans, Bullied opens, etc, stopped off and collected / delivered grain vans at stations. Thats why they’re so suitable for layouts. You can run them mixed in with all the other stuff. As seen here on Tara junction……. 9 Quote
Colin R Posted March 14 Posted March 14 1 hour ago, ttc0169 said: As seen here on Tara junction……. I think I can just about do that in Grey, would be good to have a couple of John's GSR grain vans as well. 1 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 As an example, in IRRS journal 185 (Oct 2014) there's a nice photo by David Boyle on page 165. It shows A22 in (early) black and tan livery at Leixlip hauling a very long freight train formed mostly of cattle wagons. However, the first 3 wagons are grain hoppers - two of the CIE type and between them is one of the GSR type. All in grey livery. So that nicely illustrates how grain vans would be marshalled into a general freight train, but you would often see a group of them together rather than just one. I mentioned the GNR grain vans; here's a very nice shot of one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511443526 And there's another on the left margin of this photo, next to one of the GSR type owned by Ranks: Now, here's a nice photo from Ernie which again shows a block of grain vans at the front of a mixed freight train at Monaghan in 1959. It's hard to be 100% certain but I think we have 7 grain vans here, from the front: GNR, Ranks, Ranks, CIE, CIE, CIE, Ranks. 3 Quote
Galteemore Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Fabulous shot of the GN van being tractor shunted. Love the nonchalance of the shunter sitting on his pole! I was at university with one of the Omagh Scotts many years ago. At a dinner one night, I discovered he knew disappointingly little about the family’s use of wagons for grain traffic. 2 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, Galteemore said: Fabulous shot of the GN van being tractor shunted. Love the nonchalance of the shunter sitting on his pole! I was at university with one of the Omagh Scotts many years ago. At a dinner one night, I discovered he knew disappointingly little about the family’s use of wagons for grain traffic. I keep wondering whether to see if I can increase my order for Leslie's GNR 10t vans and convert one of them into a grain van. I wonder if there's a diagram for them in the GNR diagram book at the IRRS? I haven't seen a good photo showing the underside which presumably had a hopper like the CIE ones. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Meanwhile, here's my JM Design GSR grain hopper, regauged and weathered, between two pristine IRM CIE grain hoppers that are awaiting the same treatment. 14 2 Quote
Dempsey Posted March 15 Posted March 15 Arrived home yesterday to two packs waiting. Might order more if budget and stock allow 2 Quote
raymurph Posted March 15 Posted March 15 Arrived this morning, great runners on the layout. Superb job as usual IRM 20250315_202926.mp4 6 Quote
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