Navan Branchline

[spudfan]

Could also be used as a bargaining chip by Tara Mines. When the road haulage contract comes up for renewal they can ask IR to put in a tender and the road haulier to do the same. 

[Patrick Davey]

1 hour ago, spudfan said:

Could also be used as a bargaining chip by Tara Mines. When the road haulage contract comes up for renewal they can ask IR to put in a tender and the road haulier to do the same. 

Surely RPSI would be better positioned to put in a tender?

[Ironroad]

Hi John, There's no doubt that there has been massive improvement in the road infrastructure, but even that is barely sufficient to keep pace with increasing volumes of traffic as the city grows. I suspect it's been some time since you drove on the M50. If using the existing rail infrastructure was a condition of the original planning permission then that still makes sense today and if  the powers that be have any commonsense when it comes to traffic control then they should be insisting on the use of rail for this freight. 

Nor is this a level paying field, the fact is that the railway would probably loose in any tendering process against road freight because they don't pay for the roads they are pounding. it's the  ordinary motorist that subsides the road freight industry with the disproportionate high levels of road tax they are required to pay.

Tom

[jhb171achill]

On 23/9/2025 at 5:11 PM, spudfan said:

Does this mean road haulage will be used?

I would presume so - that was his impression. So much for the green agenda!

[Bob229]

Looks like another freight flow gone, hopefully increased traffic on the roads and the works been completed in Dublin Port will force a return to rail 

[spudfan]

Wonder if Tara mines were factoring in the upkeep of the fleet as a negative. The haulier will be responsible for the fleet of trucks and no doubt there are penalty clauses built into the contract if a speecific tonnage is not moved daily. I would say there would be little enough profit on the deal for the haulier if things do not go to plan for Tara mines.

[dave182]

I'm all for rail transport, but the reality is that with the M3, M50, Port Tunnel combo, even with existing road traffic levels, you could do 2 return trips comfortably with an articulated tipper and single driver. Modern road tipper trailers can carry around 25 to 30 tons. Flexible, no expensive wagon tippler to maintain, no shunting. Sad but true.

I don't believe Irish Rail could justify a new dedicated fleet of hoppers for this flow, unless they go down the route of ISO demountable bulk containers that can sit on the new fleet of wagons on order from the UK. 

And secondly, I don't think there will be capacity to accomodate these trains on the Northern Line when you factor in all the Dart Plus and Enterprise improvements that are supposed to be happening.

[spudfan]

It will be very easy to model a Tara mines train now. All you will need is a few Taras sitting in a siding....

If Tara mines lift the tracks at their site you will know they have abandoned rail.

Edited September 25 by spudfan

[jhb171achill]

18 hours ago, dave182 said:

I'm all for rail transport, but the reality is that with the M3, M50, Port Tunnel combo, even with existing road traffic levels, you could do 2 return trips comfortably with an articulated tipper and single driver. Modern road tipper trailers can carry around 25 to 30 tons. Flexible, no expensive wagon tippler to maintain, no shunting. Sad but true.

I don't believe Irish Rail could justify a new dedicated fleet of hoppers for this flow, unless they go down the route of ISO demountable bulk containers that can sit on the new fleet of wagons on order from the UK. 

And secondly, I don't think there will be capacity to accomodate these trains on the Northern Line when you factor in all the Dart Plus and Enterprise improvements that are supposed to be happening.

Much as I'd love to find a pro-rail flaw in that argument, I'm afraid you have it 100% spot on, unfortunately. I think goods in general is doomed, unless there is a very radical re-think from central government, but this would involve long-term planning, something our successive governments of all parties do not do. It also recalls to mind what, again regrettably, I am increasingly seeing as a vanity project for the last government - Foynes.  Still zero potential business for it, and seemingly zero interest.

[Ironroad]

18 hours ago, dave182 said:

I'm all for rail transport, but the reality is that with the M3, M50, Port Tunnel combo, even with existing road traffic levels, you could do 2 return trips comfortably with an articulated tipper and single driver. Modern road tipper trailers can carry around 25 to 30 tons. 

Probably not intended but with respect, that statement misrepresents the true scale of what is involved.

The planned annual output of the mine is 1.8 increasing to 2.2 million tonnes annually. https://www.boliden.com/49034a/globalassets/operations/exploration/mineral-resources-and-mineral-reserves-pdf/2024/resources-and-reserves-tara-2024-12-31.pdf

That's over 5,000  tonnes or about 160-170 truckloads daily. 

The capacity of the northern line is an issue but not if this ore is moved off peak as has traditionally been the case for freight on main lines.

[dave182]

18 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Probably not intended but with respect, that statement misrepresents the true scale of what is involved.

The planned annual output of the mine is 1.8 increasing to 2.2 million tonnes annually. https://www.boliden.com/49034a/globalassets/operations/exploration/mineral-resources-and-mineral-reserves-pdf/2024/resources-and-reserves-tara-2024-12-31.pdf

That's over 5,000  tonnes or about 160-170 truckloads daily. 

The capacity of the northern line is an issue but not if this ore is moved off peak as has traditionally been the case for freight on main lines.

I believe you have misread the figures here. The 1.8million to 2.2million tons per annum is what comes up out of the ground. This yields 200,000t approx. Zinc and 25,000t Lead on an annual basis. So 225,000t of concentrate shipped from Dublin Port annually, equating to about 150 trucks per week. 

It's also easy to say 'move the feight in off-peak times'. The residents along the line in and around Eastwall have complained about noise from North Wall Yard for years now. And there are now hundreds of new apartments built in the area this past few years. 

Hard to see the Navan branchline being used for freight again unfortunately.

[Mayner]

I think some of the recent posters are loosing sight of the fact that:

1. Rail is not a practicable option for shipping the ore from Tara mines during the next 2-3 years.

2. The mines closed temporarily in July 2023 because it was uneconomic to continue mining as a result of low ore prices.

3. Ore reserves are expected to be exhausted at some stage between 2029 and 2033.

4. The more direct route by the M5,M50,Dublin Port Tunnel is likely to have undermined any potential economic/environmental advantage of shipping the ore by rail.

At the end of the day Boliden is likely to select the lowest cost option for shipping the ore from Tara.

IEs Tara Mines freight operation are inefficient compared to the standards of the past 20 odd years!

Although the Tara Mines are Ireland's heaviest trains they are light by international standards (Tara 594 Tonnes -12 wagon Kiwirail 1500 Tonnes-25 wagon  (coal) Port of Tauranga-Rotowaro (Huntly Power Station) (2-3 daily) since 2004.

The discharge operation at Dublin Port is inefficient (involving shunting/uncoupling of indiviudal wagons) compared to similar operations where the entire train is unloaded without the need to shunt/uncouple/re-couple individual wagons.

The discharge operation at Dublin Port is constrained by restricted space, no room to install a loop to accomodate longer trains.

Existing wagon fleet (owned by Tara Mines?) is largely life expired, could Boliden justify buying a fleet of new wagons for a mine thats projected to close within the next 4-8 years?

 

Tom.

I have used the Irish Road system in recent years including the Port Tunnel, M1, M50, N11 at peak times during visits to Ireland in recent years, congestion on the M50 and Dublin approach roads is little different to that I experienced in the UK or Auckland, though driving between the outskirts of the city and Dublin Port is now a picnic to 20 or so years ago before the opening of the Port Tunnel. Before I left Ireland in 2004 I spent several years working on construction projects around the M50, and in the Port and well remember the level of traffic congestion and impact on productivity. 

 

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

I have used the Irish Road system in recent years including the Port Tunnel, M1, M50, N11 at peak times during visits to Ireland in recent years, congestion on the M50 and Dublin approach roads is little different to that I experienced in the UK or Auckland, though driving between the outskirts of the city and Dublin Port is now a picnic to 20 or so years ago before the opening of the Port Tunnel. Before I left Ireland in 2004 I spent several years working on construction projects around the M50, and in the Port and well remember the level of traffic congestion and impact on productivity. 

 

I have just spent an hour in a pub listening to people whingeing about traffic issues in Laois and wondering if they've been to England in this century.

My place in England is in a one-horse town in the arse-end of nowhere and I have never suffered congestion, obstruction and general difficulties in driving anywhere near that in the Republic. The roadworks near my house there are a quarter of the way into their ninth year now, with no end in sight. Some roadworks in Wales ended this year - after 23 years - so we may need to be patient.

Goods traffic on rail will always be problematic in a small sparsely populated country with no large inland centres. If you have to load stuff onto trucks to get it to the railhead, and then offload it into trucks again, to move on to the final destination, then, on a small island, you will need to look at the numbers carefully to see if it's even worth the bother, or just leave it in the trucks and drive them all the way there.

[Galteemore]

Most interesting. I was out running about 0600 this am near the GWR main line, and a lengthy passing freight brought this to mind. Several times a week I pass a metal recycling centre in Swindon which has its own siding and you will often see a class 66 in with scrap wagons. Destination is a steel facility inCardiff, about 60 miles away, with excellent motorway links, so an alternative option exists. But the simplicity of the loading process, and the sheer amounts involved, make it viable for rail. The Tara traffic just doesn’t seem to be in that space. Having used the Dublin-Drogheda road regularly in 1999-02, I was staggered upon returning to Ireland for a visit in 2018 to see how road-friendly the place is now. Rail traffic has an uphill struggle in the circumstances @Broithe outlines above - it was viable in 70s-80s Ireland but no longer, unless the distance and bulk is overwhelming. 

Edited September 26 by Galteemore

[spudfan]

Maybe that was the reasoning behind the Foynes reopening. Longer tara trains, new unloading facilities......yeah wishful thinking!

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, spudfan said:

Maybe that was the reasoning behind the Foynes reopening. Longer tara trains, new unloading facilities......yeah wishful thinking!

There was talk of ore from the Pallas Green ore-body being exported through Foynes or Waterford after the discovery was announced in the early 2000s, but remains un-developed possibly as a result of geological challenges which may effect the viability of developing the mine. In the mean time the expoloration/mining rights have changed hands several times since the initial discovery.

I am beginning to believe that the Foynes Branch was refurbished because like the Northern Ireland Renewable Energy Scheme 'cash for ash" money was available to improve access to Foynes Port under the EU TEN-T scheme rather than to fulfill an actual need.

Difficult to see Boliden Mining paying to have their ore Tara ore shipped over 150 miles to Foynes & funding a new discharge facility, when they can ship the ore 36 miles by road or approx 50 miles by rail to their existing unloading facility at Dublin Port (assuming Dublin Port restores rail link in 2-3 years time.

Back in the day Tara shipped its initial output (severak weeks?) through Foynes (possibly using Mogul wagons) as a result of an industrial dispute involving redundant Goulding workers at Dublin Port.

Going back to Galtemores point about the poor state of the roads and viability of rail during the 70s-80s, Gortdrum and Tynagh two of the largest ore bodies developed during the 60s shipped their ore by road possibly because its was not viable to provide infrastructure to ship by rail due to the relatively short life of the mines. 

Gortdrum a large copper mine located beside the Cork Line at Limerick Junction (just North of the Junction with the Direct Curve) had a working life before closure of 10 years, Tynagh a large Lead and Zinc mine located approx 10 miles east of Loughrea had a working life of approx 20 years shipped its ore by road direct to Galway port although it appears to have receeived supply by rail to Loughrea. Tynagh was estimated to have reserved of 9.2m tonnes with 7.2mt extracted during the life of the mine sending out approx 140,000 tonne of concentrates or 7,000 wagon loads/350 train loads or approx 1 train a week during the life of the mine. (based on 20T 20 wagon ore trains of the era).

By comparison Mogul mine (zinc) at Silvermines appears to have had a working live of 14 years and shipped a daily trainload of ore through Foynes port (the Foynes Tippler was apparrently re-used for unloading shale wagons at the Munget Cement factory), Macobar shipped barytes ore from Silvermines to Foynes two trainloads daily for almost 30 years.

[spudfan]

Highly informative reading the above posts.

[Broithe]

I believe that the ore from Galmoy is planned to be taken by road to Waterford, when extraction starts again shortly.

I should be having an expedition with my tame(?) informant on the inside and I might remember to ask her.

They are currently ramping up the extraction of the water from the flooded workings and just popping out there in the early hours to check on things is not helping someone who admits to not being a 'morning person' at the best of times...
 

There was a vague plan for a line from Ballybrophy to Perry's Brewery in Rathdowney, but nothing ever came of it - maybe that could be resurrected as a line to the Dawn Meats plant, as it now is, and then onto to the mine a bit further south?

Probably not...

[Galteemore]

Was big excitement in NI at one time about lignite on the old Antrim branch and I think exploratory plans were made for rail use, the old C class locos were acquired by NIR with this in mind - freight flow being down to Kilroot power station. I suppose there is still theoretical potential for this to happen if the economics and environmental impacts ever balance. Having looked up the old thread here on it, the plan even involved relaying the Monkstown-Greenisland chord. 

Edited Saturday at 11:05 by Galteemore

[Mayner]

On 27/9/2025 at 10:55 PM, Broithe said:

I believe that the ore from Galmoy is planned to be taken by road to Waterford, when extraction starts again shortly.

I should be having an expedition with my tame(?) informant on the inside and I might remember to ask her.

They are currently ramping up the extraction of the water from the flooded workings and just popping out there in the early hours to check on things is not helping someone who admits to not being a 'morning person' at the best of times...
 

There was a vague plan for a line from Ballybrophy to Perry's Brewery in Rathdowney, but nothing ever came of it - maybe that could be resurrected as a line to the Dawn Meats plant, as it now is, and then onto to the mine a bit further south?

Probably not...

The ore from the Lisheen Mine going by road to Cork seems to have been a tipping point in the Irish Governments approach towards railfreight. The ore was originally proposed to be transported from Lisduff by rail. but IEs funding application (infrastructure & stock?) was rejected by the Government. Government (& EU?) had funded (grants & loansto IE) major freight infrastructure improvements during the 90s, new yards Dundalk & Bellview Port, increasing loading gauge to clear larger ISO containers and high capacity container handling equipment at all major terminals (new gantries, forklifts/reach stackers.

A Government report in early 2000s was extremly critical of the profitability of IEs railfreight services and basically lead to the run down and closure of most services. A lot of money wasted, but I suppose a lot was EU funds that had to be spent

[jhb171achill]

ALL of the above posts make perfect sense; thus adding strongly to my predictions and beliefs that:

1. The Foynes branch is, was, and will be a white elephant. There is no traffic for it, never was, and won’t be. It’ll gather weeds and end up being cleared of bushes every few years by a yellow machine.

2. Bar Ballina - for the time being anyway - rail freight on this island will go the way of steam engines and loco-hauled passenger trains. (Sorry, “customer” trains).

3. The hoo-ha about the rail development plan is largely a load of fantasy nonsense concocted to suggest that politicians north and south are serious about LONG term public transport planning. They aren’t, and even if they were, large parts of this report are unrealistic drivel that a first-year economics student could debunk.

4. Ideas about reopening Rosslare - Waterford, Bandon or the Derry Road are not going to happen, full stop.

Sorry to be negative, but these - plus points raised above - are the cold, hard realities in Ireland.

Edited yesterday at 02:34 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

Sadly, you are right, JB - at least until a new Celtic Tiger emerges. For now, interest seems to be all about another arms race and satisfying the ego of the current POTUS. Feel sure the latter would approve of my use of capitals though.

 Swords into ploughshares? I fear the human race is once again heading the wrong way...

Edited yesterday at 06:05 by David Holman

[ttc0169]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

ALL of the above posts make perfect sense; thus adding strongly to my predictions and beliefs that:

1. The Foynes branch is, was, and will be a white elephant. There is no traffic for it, never was, and won’t be. It’ll gather weeds and end up being cleared of bushes every few years by a yellow machine.

2. Bar Ballina - for the time being anyway - rail freight on this island will go the way of steam engines and loco-hauled passenger trains. (Sorry, “customer” trains).

3. The hoo-ha about the rail development plan is largely a load of fantasy nonsense concocted to suggest that politicians north and south are serious about LONG term public transport planning. They aren’t, and even if they were, large parts of this report are unrealistic drivel that a first-year economics student could debunk.

4. Ideas about reopening Rosslare - Waterford, Bandon or the Derry Road are not going to happen, full stop.

Sorry to be negative, but these - plus points raised above - are the cold, hard realities in Ireland.

JHB-RE point one-a recent trial of biomass containers in Ballina freight yard was for a future freight flow from Foynes to a Midland area location-see photos -so all is not lost on that front

Point two-increased XPO traffic will commence over the next few weeks from Ballina-Waterford-Ballina with a biomass contract due next year  

I would agree with you on points three and four  

 

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

JHB-RE point one-a recent trial of biomass containers in Ballina freight yard was for a future freight flow from Foynes to a Midland area location-see photos -so all is not lost on that front

Point two-increased XPO traffic will commence over the next few weeks from Ballina-Waterford-Ballina with a biomass contract due next year  

I would agree with you on points three and four  

 

I had seen similar pictures to these Noel, and have a pack of Accurascale Gypsum containers that may get a spray of Yellow as a result as the designs are similar..

 

However, are you sure Biomass is the intended flow? The containers in the picture are actually owned/registed to the Roche Clarecastle project(https://www.bic-code.org/bic-codes/bmuu/), and are currently used to ship contaminated Soil from that site to Germany and the Netherlands via Foynes. A few years ago before that project went live, I did hear mention of it being a possible rail flow from Ennis to Foynes, Waterford or Dublin. In the end it didn't go ahead at that time, likely as Roche/Indaver chose to charter their own vessels and route via Foynes which obviously has now rail connection(but will soon).. 

[ttc0169]

11 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

I had seen similar pictures to these Noel, and have a pack of Accurascale Gypsum containers that may get a spray of Yellow as a result as the designs are similar..

 

However, are you sure Biomass is the intended flow? 

Yes Andrew-I am sure….now about those Gypsum containers…..I must have a look.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

ALL of the above posts make perfect sense; thus adding strongly to my predictions and beliefs that:

1. The Foynes branch is, was, and will be a white elephant. There is no traffic for it, never was, and won’t be. It’ll gather weeds and end up being cleared of bushes every few years by a yellow machine.

2. Bar Ballina - for the time being anyway - rail freight on this island will go the way of steam engines and loco-hauled passenger trains. (Sorry, “customer” trains).

3. The hoo-ha about the rail development plan is largely a load of fantasy nonsense concocted to suggest that politicians north and south are serious about LONG term public transport planning. They aren’t, and even if they were, large parts of this report are unrealistic drivel that a first-year economics student could debunk.

4. Ideas about reopening Rosslare - Waterford, Bandon or the Derry Road are not going to happen, full stop.

Sorry to be negative, but these - plus points raised above - are the cold, hard realities in Ireland.

I do think that Waterford - Rosslare has a future, with the Felthouse curve reinstated, a Waterford - Wexford passenger flow would do very well, as demonstrated by the traffic and upgrade works being done on the N25 corridor.

It also has big potential once the Waterford to Dublin line is upgraded to a 200kmh double track electrified railway, to provide a faster journey time from Wexford to Dublin via a new station south of the Quayside tramway, the Felthouse curve and the Dublin to Waterford line.

I agree about Bandon being impossible and a flight of fancy, and the likes of potentially reinstating the Derry Road being very pie in the sky at the moment, but I don’t think the Waterford Rosslare line is a write off at all 

[jhb171achill]

36 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

I do think that Waterford - Rosslare has a future, with the Felthouse curve reinstated, a Waterford - Wexford passenger flow would do very well, as demonstrated by the traffic and upgrade works being done on the N25 corridor.

It also has big potential once the Waterford to Dublin line is upgraded to a 200kmh double track electrified railway, to provide a faster journey time from Wexford to Dublin via a new station south of the Quayside tramway, the Felthouse curve and the Dublin to Waterford line.

I agree about Bandon being impossible and a flight of fancy, and the likes of potentially reinstating the Derry Road being very pie in the sky at the moment, but I don’t think the Waterford Rosslare line is a write off at all 

Hopefully 

[spudfan]

Slightly off topic.Imagine if Guinness had reinstated some of their system. Tourist would love a trip in a Guinness train along the cobbles before they do an internal tour. I remember when I was young (very young) marvelling at the speed of the trains on the curves! The trains were always immaculate and looked a million miles away from the Bord na Mona stock. 

Transport has come a long way from CIE horse drawn carts and Guinness trains, but the memories are still vivid and happy.

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

JHB-RE point one-a recent trial of biomass containers in Ballina freight yard was for a future freight flow from Foynes to a Midland area location-see photos -so all is not lost on that front

Point two-increased XPO traffic will commence over the next few weeks from Ballina-Waterford-Ballina with a biomass contract due next year  

I would agree with you on points three and four  

 

There appears to have been talk of converting some of converting Edenderry, Shannon Bridge or Lanesborough power stations (only built 25-30 years ago) to burn 'Biomass" (sawmill waste/woodchips), though ironically ESB converted Cahirciveen (sod peat) Power Station to burn locally grown bio-mass (fast growing tree species) as opposed to imported "biomass" 40-50 years ago.

As with the majority of Irish freight flows the biggest challenge facing the transport of imported bio-mass to an existing Irish power station is the long distance road transfer from railhead to a midland power station, though railing Irish grown biomass from a railhead in the West to Foynes-(Moneypoint Power Station) or planting fast growing tree species on midland cutaway bogs as 'biomass' would just about make sense. 

I could never get my head around the environmental benefit of converting Drax Power Station to burn sawmill waste imported from North America rather than locally mined coal.

Timber from Irish forests is mainly used to manufacture osb board and Medite may be considering 'offshoring' manufacture to China in a similar manner to New Zealand ply and paper manufacturers.

Because of its bulk probably looking at at some form of Hi Cube open containers for transporting "Biomass" especially if it involves a road transfer at either end.

Toll/Kiwirail used standard open top containers for transporting woodchip between a sawmill in Northland and a manufacturing plant in the Bay of Plenty.

https://boxman.co.nz/product/12m-40ft-open-top-shipping-container/