Warbonnet Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Just before Christmas, we teased one of the decorated samples for our forthcoming maroon-and-blue liveried NIR Mark 2s, to perfectly complement the NIR Hunslets as they debuted on the Enterprise in the early 1970s. We had hoped to have these samples in time for the Dublin Model Railway Exhibition last October, but sadly they got lost in that vortex that is the courier system! Thankfully, they showed up recently, and now we are able to show the range, including the newly tooled grille car. Feast your eyes below! We're delighted with the paint shades and finish of these coaches, particularly the aluminium finish on the window framing and the newly tooled earlier style of grille car. They really look the business with our NIR Hunslets, giving you licence to recreate the 1970s edition of the Enterprise between Belfast and Dublin, featuring all-new stock which boasts charisma that has been unmatched ever since. We're delighted to report that the Hunslet locomotives are almost in full production, and we will have more news on their delivery very soon. The coaches remain on schedule too, and are due in the fourth quarter of 2026. This is likely to be our only run of the coaches in this livery, and indeed the Hunslets. So, if you want them, now is the time to order. Don't miss out — because when they're gone, they're gone. Pre-Order Your NIR Coaches Here! View the full article 9 4
Patrick Davey Posted January 21 Posted January 21 There are no words for how incredible these look. I have 3 on order, that could well increase!!!! 2
Tractionman Posted January 21 Posted January 21 6 hours ago, Warbonnet said: maroon-and-blue liveried NIR Mark 2s, to perfectly complement the NIR Hunslets as they debuted on the Enterprise in the early 1970s they look brilliant, did the set run like this til around 1975 or any later? cheers, Keith 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 21 Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, Tractionman said: they look brilliant, did the set run like this til around 1975 or any later? cheers, Keith I believe the carriages were repainted in the grey/blue scheme around 1979, and the locos in blue at the same time. The locos got a revised vee on the front (still in maroon livery) around 1973. Jonathan Allen's album here is well worth a look: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/albums/72157713210080108 1 1 1
Tractionman Posted January 21 Posted January 21 9 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: around 1979 many thanks! ooh now I am getting seriously tempted, they look lovely... 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 21 Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Tractionman said: many thanks! ooh now I am getting seriously tempted, they look lovely... They're completely out of time and region for me, but I couldn't help myself! This is your required loco with the late 1970s vee shape: https://www.accurascale.com/products/101-eagle-maroon-with-revised-arc 1
Georgeconna Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Peach of a model and looks fab next to the Hunnie. looking up my collection listing I am topping now 83 Irish coaches which is a ridiculous amount to have and then have the Parkies to come so I think I have maxed out the coaching stock at this stage myself sadly these won't be added. Need to start culling me thinks.. 1 2 3
Patrick Davey Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I have included the driving trailer in my order, can someone explain which DCC chip is needed and advise where it can be purchased? TIA
Warbonnet Posted January 21 Author Posted January 21 30 minutes ago, Georgeconna said: Peach of a model and looks fab next to the Hunnie. looking up my collection listing I am topping now 83 Irish coaches which is a ridiculous amount to have and then have the Parkies to come so I think I have maxed out the coaching stock at this stage myself sadly these won't be added. Need to start culling me thinks.. Cheers George, and you bring up an interesting point to be honest that must be shared with the wider community. It's a tough one to face, but with the amount of Irish goodies that have come out, particularly in the last 5 years, what is an absolutely tiny market is likely full to the brim now with models. We can see a big slow down in purchases, which despite the economy being in somewhat decent order, is understandable. The sad reality is that there is likely to be less and less offerings in Irish outline as a result if the trend is a continuous one. We have a lot to deliver this year, have paid out a huge amount of money to tool it over a British outline model (okay, Mark 2s are part of a wider accurascale range, but the other goodies we have coming are uniquely Irish) which would make us a much larger return on investment and be a much smaller risk. So, if it sells, great. But if everyone is full up, then our output will likely severely restrict going forwards. It's a harsh reality, and we hope there are still enough customers out there to enjoy these, but if there isn't we will need to cut cloth accordingly. Talking to some traders recently has also yielded similar feedback. As we say, if it's what you want, grab it. With the NIR stuff, if you want to see an 80 Class in the future, the decision to tool one is entirely dependent on the sales of the Hunslets and these coaches. We even have the sound recorded for it, but the tooling bill is huge! We'll do it if people can vote with their wallets on these first. Cheers! Fran 7 3 2 3
irishthump Posted January 21 Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Warbonnet said: Cheers George, and you bring up an interesting point to be honest that must be shared with the wider community. It's a tough one to face, but with the amount of Irish goodies that have come out, particularly in the last 5 years, what is an absolutely tiny market is likely full to the brim now with models. We can see a big slow down in purchases, which despite the economy being in somewhat decent order, is understandable. The sad reality is that there is likely to be less and less offerings in Irish outline as a result if the trend is a continuous one. We have a lot to deliver this year, have paid out a huge amount of money to tool it over a British outline model (okay, Mark 2s are part of a wider accurascale range, but the other goodies we have coming are uniquely Irish) which would make us a much larger return on investment and be a much smaller risk. So, if it sells, great. But if everyone is full up, then our output will likely severely restrict going forwards. It's a harsh reality, and we hope there are still enough customers out there to enjoy these, but if there isn't we will need to cut cloth accordingly. Talking to some traders recently has also yielded similar feedback. As we say, if it's what you want, grab it. With the NIR stuff, if you want to see an 80 Class in the future, the decision to tool one is entirely dependent on the sales of the Hunslets and these coaches. We even have the sound recorded for it, but the tooling bill is huge! We'll do it if people can vote with their wallets on these first. Cheers! Fran Appreciate the honesty on this topic, Fran. Even though though the economy is somewhat OK as you mentioned, the price of models across the board is starting to affect purchases (in my case at least and I'm sure others would agree). That's not a dig at you guys, it's just the reality of things. So I have had to seriously scale back my own spending on the hobby, the 3 locos and the Park Royals I have on order are the limit for the foreseeable future I'm afraid. 3 2 1
leslie10646 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I must say that these look very nice. I'll have to sell the rest of my King and Country tanks, etc and quickly! 4 1
seagoebox Posted January 22 Posted January 22 In reply to POL_PMB's post of earlier, I attach some bumph from NIR's Blue n Grey launch.... The very extensive (compared to today) menu was all cooked up by Mella in the kitchen of 547! 5 1 2 1 3
Mol_PMB Posted January 22 Posted January 22 27 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said: Love those prices!!!!!!! Great stuff!!! Facinating insight. Most things have gone up by a factor of 10 at least. As an extra bit of context, in 1978, the list price of a Hornby Mk2 coach was £3.15. But by today's standards it was extremely crude. 1
mfjoc Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Further to Fran's post with regard to the production of new Irish models going forward I completly see where he is coming from. I am in a similar situation to Georgeconna in that my shelves are full with multiple copies of almost everything that has come out so far form both IRM and Saint Patrick. I do hope to get the new layout operational in the next few months and actually use them for the purpose for which they were intended. I never in my wildest dreams though that I would be able to aquire the collection of such beautiful models that I have. I am pretty sure I am probably your typical customer. In my sixties, empty nester either retired or close to retirement, with some spare cash to spend on a hobby. I was given a train set as a kid and grew up travelling on a railway that ran an enormous variety of rolling stock. BUT Even I am close to saturation point. I still have the Park Royals, Hunslet and Palvans to come but I will be taking a pass on the ICRs, Dart and 800's. I'd love a few C classes, Mk3's and GSV's and I do think that these would be financially viable. So I live in hope but perfectly understand if they don't appear anytime soon or at all. I am so happy with what I have. The other thing to consider is that our generation is dying off and a large quantity of high quality boxed second hand models are likely to become available over the next few years. It is hard to see where new customers are going to come from as none of my kids generation have any interest in model trains. I am working on the next generation through Thomas the Tank Engine and my own layout which might give some hope for the future. 2 1 2
Ironroad Posted January 22 Posted January 22 1 hour ago, mfjoc said: Further to Fran's post with regard to the production of new Irish models going forward I completly see where he is coming from. I am in a similar situation to Georgeconna in that my shelves are full with multiple copies of almost everything that has come out so far form both IRM and Saint Patrick. I do hope to get the new layout operational in the next few months and actually use them for the purpose for which they were intended. I never in my wildest dreams though that I would be able to aquire the collection of such beautiful models that I have. I am pretty sure I am probably your typical customer. In my sixties, empty nester either retired or close to retirement, with some spare cash to spend on a hobby. I was given a train set as a kid and grew up travelling on a railway that ran an enormous variety of rolling stock. BUT Even I am close to saturation point. I still have the Park Royals, Hunslet and Palvans to come but I will be taking a pass on the ICRs, Dart and 800's. I'd love a few C classes, Mk3's and GSV's and I do think that these would be financially viable. So I live in hope but perfectly understand if they don't appear anytime soon or at all. I am so happy with what I have. The other thing to consider is that our generation is dying off and a large quantity of high quality boxed second hand models are likely to become available over the next few years. It is hard to see where new customers are going to come from as none of my kids generation have any interest in model trains. I am working on the next generation through Thomas the Tank Engine and my own layout which might give some hope for the future. Some thoughts on this. I do not like nay saying, particularly when it doesn't speak for me and I suspect many others. The slowdown is understandable and has been with us for a while. A lot is coming on stream this year but in truth a lot of this has been in the pipeline for years and it is rather unfortunate this is all coming together as a glut. Currently per the Accurascale website all Irish models that are planned are due for delivery in 2026 and I'm quite concerned that that may be the end of the road. And it is very worrying when some on here seem to be endorsing this as OK. I have purchased every offering in sizeable quantities from IRM from the beginning except for items I considered too niche, IE weedspray stuff and the magnesite wagons. Even the NIR offerings are a bit niche for many of us and in short lived liveries and represent an imbalance in the offerings, but understandable releases since there was cross over with the UK range. I will purchase the blue and maroon coaches with a bit of reluctance and I suspect there others that feel this way. So if I were to offer advise to IRM for the future of the Irish market, I would suggest a focus on the items that were ubiquitous and long lived in many liveries and uses. So AEC Railcars, Laminate coaches and C class locos would make a lot of sense and would sell in good quantities. The falloff in sales is perhaps due to two factors, initial enthusiastic over purchasing and the more recent sharp increase in prices some of which literally stopped me in my tracks, e.g. 130 euro for 3 H vans an incredible 43.33 each It's at this point that one starts looking at items that can be bought at half that price (or less) and made to look like reasonable representations. So going forward to ensure sustainability maybe just one new significant release on an annual basis is the way to go, perhaps supplemented with reruns or variations of previous releases. In closing, i wonder if there would be an Accurascale had there not been an IRM which was a brave venture to begin with. I 3 6 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 22 Posted January 22 I agree with @Ironroad. Whilst I have returned to Irish modelling relatively recently, this was entirely influenced by the existence of the high quality IRM models. Having missed the boat on many of the early products I have been scouring eBay and secondhand sellers to acquire some of the earlier products, and in my experience the secondhand prices are holding up well, often being a slight premium on the original price. Some models have been very hard to find, and the re-run of the cement bubbles was ideal for me. In the meantime I have bought a range of Irish kits from the smaller suppliers to fill some of the gaps, thereby spreading the benefit more widely. And of course I've placed numerous orders with IRM / AS, including non-Irish specific items such as the lokprogrammer and spare parts. The IRM commitment to correcting flaws and getting things right is impressive. Delivery delays are no doubt frustrating on both sides - it seems a very long time ago that I paid for my Park Royals when my expectation was that delivery was imminent (my mistake!) I would be very disappointed if Accurascale turned its back on the IRM market entirely, on the basis that there's lower risk and more money to be made with GB prototypes. But it feels like that's a serious threat, indeed it sometimes comes across as a literal threat to the customers of the Irish prototypes. Perhaps I'm treading on thin ice here, but that's not a good feeling as customer. There are still some major gaps in the lineup as Ironroad identifies - "AEC Railcars, Laminate coaches and C class locos" are also the three things at the top of my wishlist. There may also be opportunities for some more joined-up thinking on the range - for example coaches to suit the 800s, a BGSV, or some of the RPSI locos. I agree it would make sense to slow down the releases to suit people's budgets. If there really is a plan to stop production of Irish models entirely, then please do tell us. On the other hand, if there's a C class or AEC railcar in the wings it would be nice to know. I've already been considering doing a 'cut and shut' on an IRM A class, or developing a custom etch for an AEC (actually it might be a Bulleid Wedgehead). But I'd much rather spend my money on a new green IRM box, if there will be one coming along next year. Just my thoughts. I don't have the full picture, of course. Communication is always good so I welcome the IRM comments in this thread and would encourage you to continue communicating. 3 4
DJ Dangerous Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Firstly, these coaches just look amaaaaaaaaazing. I’m leaking from several areas simultaneously after seeing those photos. IRM / A/S, along with other manufacturers, will have been hit hard with the Covid-19 bubble. Lockdown-induced boredom led to many people returning to the hobby, or entering for the first time. Suddenly, demand far outstripped supply. By the time manufacturers could get products onto the shelves, the bubble had already burst, so aside from reduced demand, there was increased supply as people sold off their Covid-19 era models. Market saturation is definitely a problem. The 45% price increase this year will also have curtailed sales and put buyers off. IRM / A/S have to deal with inflation like the rest of us, but I imagine that in most cases, the price increases are small and slow, so we don’t notice so much, and keep slogging away. Anybody remember when six-packs of Cadbury Creme Eggs became five packs??? Being very general, wages have kept up with inflation, so people are no better nor worse off. But, when your favourite luxury purchase has a sudden and hefty price increase, you’re likely to react. Me, personally? I haven’t yet paid for my PalVan order as to me, the value for money is not what it was, and I’m afraid that I may end up cancelling, and I have ordered very little since the prices went up. The future? Either prices need to come back down, even if this means less-detailed models, or the runs need to be smaller and / or less frequent so that scarcity and fear of missing out keep people paying the inflated prices. I hope that this doesn’t signal the end for IRM. The last five or ten years have been smashing thanks to IRM. Look at thosr B+I liners! Oh man, just wow. I guess it’s time for reflection. IRM / A/S has grown into a juggernaut with huge overheads, changing markets, competition and duplication of lines, and I can’t see the IRM model of a few years ago being compatible with the A/S model of today. Maybe the future for IRM is de-merging and simplifying, a smaller team, less launches, smaller runs, but with the benefit of A/S factory slots? I’m sure that the boys themselves are thinking long and hard about what to do going forward. Whatever happens, I’m thankful for what IRM, Paddy Murphy, and all of the smaller suppliers, have done for us over the years. 4 3
Tractionman Posted January 22 Posted January 22 21 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said: Being very general, wages have kept up with inflation, so people are no better nor worse off. I beg to differ! At least in sterling zone, salaries for most have not kept up with inflation at all, and in many areas of employment we have taken a pay cut in real terms, so the spare cash is really just no longer there sadly it's going on fuel, food, and general living. 2 1
BosKonay Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Accurascale British outline Mark 2 coaches are £79.99 each.~ IRM Irish / NIR Mark 2 coaches are £74.99 All of the bulleid ranges are the same price and have been since that entire range launched? You can buy 3 Palvans for £109, thats just £36 a wagon, less than the going rate for much higher volume run wagons from accurascale, or rapido, or Bachmann; three Magnesites were £121.95, etc. The 42' project averaged £50 per wagon too. Not seeing the 'massive' price hikes to be fair, again, unless you're going back a decade when we could do a twin pack of HUO wagons for 69.95 - but then we just launched PCA Bulk Cement carriers = triple packs at £ 69.98 which is € 82.95 or just € 27 odd per wagon, BEFORE you can get 10% off for two or more, or 15% off for three or more, and that applies to all the Irish wagon packs too. Here you can see the value to the customer of scale and reruns at volume, which is Fran's point. Keep runs small, demand low, keeps prices high and the possibility of new tooling low. Not sure where a 45% price increase might have been imagined, but unless you're comparing with packs of wagons that were many years back and massively subsidised by their UK cousins (as above the MK2s still are) then we've not 'put up' any prices, certainly not by half! Prices are where they are and if you examine any UK outline wagon or loco, you can see, refreshingly that Irish outline prices are on par, if not still a bit less, despite the market being a small percentage of the scale and volume that UK outline can achieve, this is entirely down to the efficiency at scale of accurascale having IRM under it's wing. If IRM was de-merged, you'd have supply like, with the greatest of love and respect, Murphy models, where a 141 will cost you £200 and you might get a new model every three years. Am sure no one would like to go backwards. Launching less, and selling smaller runs too, means only one thing. MUCH higher prices than you see now. In real terms, the market is strong, the overall business is doing well, and you get a lot of bang for your buck, if anything there is too much choice at the moment, so the old days of 'buy everything' aren't feasible any more. When would anyone have thought you could pick up a huge range of bullied wagons, cement bubbles, Hunslets with matching Mark 2s, ICR units, the GSR 800! Park Royals, and more to come to the highest standards and levels of technology and detail, for prices still well south of anything close across Europe? Finally we're the same people running the same business when we delivered a cement bubble over a decade ago. We have more help, more options and opportunities and more resources, but that never changes the DNA of a business. 'Duplication of lines' isn't something that has to be worried about in Irish outline, even if Paddy is still promising Mark 3's and so are we The glass is always half full, and rumours of the demise of the hobby have circulated since Moses was a lad, so it's a time to not bemoan, but be thankful.
DJ Dangerous Posted January 22 Posted January 22 11 minutes ago, Tractionman said: I beg to differ! At least in sterling zone, salaries for most have not kept up with inflation at all, and in many areas of employment we have taken a pay cut in real terms, so the spare cash is really just no longer there sadly it's going on fuel, food, and general living. I was speaking very generally, in which case, yes, they have: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1272447/uk-wage-growth-vs-inflation/ Of course there will be lots of variation and lots of exceptions. In my case, I think it’s something like eight or nine years since my last significant pay increase. 1 minute ago, BosKonay said: Not sure where a 45% price increase might have been imagined, but unless you're comparing with packs of wagons that were many years back and massively subsidised by their UK cousins (as above the MK2s still are) then we've not 'put up' any prices, certainly not by half! For clarity, Bulleid wagon triple packs were €90 a year ago. They are now €130. That’s 45%. 1 2
BosKonay Posted January 22 Posted January 22 2 hours ago, Ironroad said: e.g. 130 euro for 3 H vans an incredible 43.33 each It's at this point that one starts looking at items that can be bought at half that price (or less) and made to look like reasonable representations. Yes they are €130 for three, which if you buy any combo of 5 packs, is €110, which is €36 a wagon, and you (could have) split over a year, interest free, at just €3 a month a wagon. Comparing with, say, an accurascale HTO/HTV which is €118 for three, or €39 each, before discounts, you're actually still getting a hifi 'niche' outline model for less than the going rate of 'mass market' UK outline. 11 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said: For clarity, Bulleid wagon triple packs were €90 a year ago. They are now €130. When launched, and heavily subsidised, they were €30 per wagon. (also not the same wagon as now are on sale) You can now buy one for €36 per wagon, I make that 20% overall and still south of 'main range' UK prices.
DJ Dangerous Posted January 22 Posted January 22 7 minutes ago, BosKonay said: Yes they are €130 for three, which if you buy any combo of 5 packs, is €110, which is €36 a wagon, and you (could have) split over a year, interest free, at just €3 a month a wagon. Comparing with, say, an accurascale HTO/HTV which is €118 for three, or €39 each, before discounts, you're actually still getting a hifi 'niche' outline model for less than the going rate of 'mass market' UK outline. When launched, and heavily subsidised, they were €30 per wagon. (also not the same wagon as now are on sale) You can now buy one for €36 per wagon, I make that 20% overall and still south of 'main range' UK prices. Without the bundle discount, pack per pack, the triple pack has gone from €90 to €130 over the last year. That’s 45%. To be open and honest, I understand that you guys have been hit hard with increased costs, currency fluctuation and inflation on top of that. You said so yourself in another thread. Those hits have had an impact on the price to the consumer. I doubt that a 45% increase in price will lead to a 45% drop in sales, things don’t work like that, but it will have some impact. 1 1 1
Warbonnet Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: I agree with @Ironroad. I would be very disappointed if Accurascale turned its back on the IRM market entirely, on the basis that there's lower risk and more money to be made with GB prototypes. But it feels like that's a serious threat, indeed it sometimes comes across as a literal threat to the customers of the Irish prototypes. Perhaps I'm treading on thin ice here, but that's not a good feeling as customer. There are still some major gaps in the lineup as Ironroad identifies - "AEC Railcars, Laminate coaches and C class locos" are also the three things at the top of my wishlist. There may also be opportunities for some more joined-up thinking on the range - for example coaches to suit the 800s, a BGSV, or some of the RPSI locos. I agree it would make sense to slow down the releases to suit people's budgets. If there really is a plan to stop production of Irish models entirely, then please do tell us. On the other hand, if there's a C class or AEC railcar in the wings it would be nice to know. I've already been considering doing a 'cut and shut' on an IRM A class, or developing a custom etch for an AEC (actually it might be a Bulleid Wedgehead). But I'd much rather spend my money on a new green IRM box, if there will be one coming along next year. Just my thoughts. I don't have the full picture, of course. Communication is always good so I welcome the IRM comments in this thread and would encourage you to continue communicating. Hi @Mol_PMB, Where did I say we would stop? Or where did I say we would "turn our backs" on the market? We are IRM, we're not going to turn our backs on it. I said that it's quite likely that the output of Irish models will drastically reduce if we see the current sales trend across the hobby continue for Irish outline models. It's not only us who have seen this as I said in my previous post. We have always been open and honest about the market, and talked about it among our customers here since our inception. Indeed, we feel it's what has made us different, and put us apart from everyone else. We have always been supported by the community, and we will forever be grateful. I think our openness has been appreciated, and it's not a "threat" to customers. It's just honesty of where the market is right now. However, it's a business, we have mortgages to pay, mouths to feed. A locomotive project alone is over half a million pounds of investment. We have to consider moves carefully. If we can't sell Irish shaped ones anymore to break even (which is about what the IRM projects do) then we cant put our business, and our employees at risk. Future IRM projects will happen, just it's very possible they will be a lot less frequent than they are currently. As for reruns of Irish stuff, on popular things like A Classes, container flats etc, it's somewhat likely, but I can't ever see a rerun of Hunslets, 800s, etc. It's why they're all available now, so miss them, you miss out. If they don't sell, we can't fund the next IRM project. One has done rather well, the other could do with some help, but we're hopeful both will wash their face. I hope this provides some clarity. I must say some of the responses have been very well thought out and show really good understanding of the industry and hobby. We really appreciate that. Cheers! Fran 9 3 2 1
BosKonay Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Just now, DJ Dangerous said: Without the bundle discount, pack per pack, the triple pack has gone from €90 to €130 over the last year. That’s 45%. To be open and honest, I understand that you guys have been hit hard with increased costs, currency fluctuation and inflation on top of that. You said so yourself in another thread. Those hits have had an impact on the price to the consumer. I doubt that a 45% increase in price will lead to a 45% drop in sales, things don’t work like that, but it will have some impact. My point was there was no bundle discount before the price change. The effective price to the customer moved 20% and you also got loyalty points and a range of other goodies. The prices before were, frankly and openly, unrealistic and entire subsidised by the accurascale side of the business. Basically our UK outline customers were paying part of the cost of every IRM thing sold, and we've been weaning the pricing away from that model so that IRM can justify standing on its own feet. The prices didn't go up, they now just actually reflect the cost of the things. We do have a lot of backlog and stuff to deliver, and absolutely pita, projects like the ICR and Park Royals which have been a rock around our ankles but we do have an exciting roadmap beyond that, more cross over with UK outline to help keep prices moderate (coaches, wagons, and more) and more new tool powered stuff too. As I said, it's not a time for negativity, but rather onwards and upwards with renewed vigour and purpose
Warbonnet Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 15 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said: Without the bundle discount, pack per pack, the triple pack has gone from €90 to €130 over the last year. That’s 45%. To be open and honest, I understand that you guys have been hit hard with increased costs, currency fluctuation and inflation on top of that. You said so yourself in another thread. Those hits have had an impact on the price to the consumer. I doubt that a 45% increase in price will lead to a 45% drop in sales, things don’t work like that, but it will have some impact. in fairness you are also comparing two different products, which on the face of it, both have the name "Bulleid", but one was a relatively simple open wagon, and the other is a van with many more parts and complexity of assembly. They may sound the same, but they are not the same. If we did a new run of opens, and put the price up to 130 euro, you would then have a case. Either way, we have basically under-priced most our output to the Irish market, made possible by the subsidy coming from our UK operations. The coaches above are cheaper, when they should be more expensive, same for the wagons and A Class. When the 141 came out they were 125 euro in marks, while a Brit Bachmann UK diesel was 85 euro. Our A Class was the same price as our Class 37. In both cases both models were made in the same factory by the same people, but we did not charge a premium/tax for the Irish variant. Good business sense would've been to do so. Bemoaning Irish model prices now (notwithstanding pressures of cost of living, which are completely justified and understandable as Graham did and made a great point about last night) is a bit silly, TBH. They're unbelievably niche, always made to minimum order quantities as that's that's stretching to the size of the market. Compare the price and standard to Continental HO of similar standard, and you can see how they're under-priced. The solution? Everyone try get someone interested in Irish outline! Cheers! Fran 4
Mol_PMB Posted January 22 Posted January 22 17 minutes ago, Warbonnet said: Hi @Mol_PMB, Where did I say we would stop? Or where did I say we would "turn our backs" on the market? We are IRM, we're not going to turn our backs on it. I said that it's quite likely that the output of Irish models will drastically reduce if we see the current sales trend across the hobby continue for Irish outline models. It's not only us who have seen this as I said in my previous post. We have always been open and honest about the market, and talked about it among our customers here since our inception. Indeed, we feel it's what has made us different, and put us apart from everyone else. We have always been supported by the community, and we will forever be grateful. I think our openness has been appreciated, and it's not a "threat" to customers. It's just honesty of where the market is right now. However, it's a business, we have mortgages to pay, mouths to feed. A locomotive project alone is over half a million pounds of investment. We have to consider moves carefully. If we can't sell Irish shaped ones anymore to break even (which is about what the IRM projects do) then we cant put our business, and our employees at risk. Future IRM projects will happen, just it's very possible they will be a lot less frequent than they are currently. As for reruns of Irish stuff, on popular things like A Classes, container flats etc, it's somewhat likely, but I can't ever see a rerun of Hunslets, 800s, etc. It's why they're all available now, so miss them, you miss out. If they don't sell, we can't fund the next IRM project. One has done rather well, the other could do with some help, but we're hopeful both will wash their face. I hope this provides some clarity. I must say some of the responses have been very well thought out and show really good understanding of the industry and hobby. We really appreciate that. Cheers! Fran Thank you for the response and the reassurance. That sounds more positive. 3 1
Sea Breezer Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Just for some clarity here, First run of H-Vans (fitted variety) sold at €89.99 per triple pack, with 10% bulk discount for orders of 2 or more packs. Loyalty points earned also. The currently available H-Vans (un-fitted) are on sale for €129.95, bulk discount of 10% 2-4 packs, 15% for 5+. 1 1 1
DJ Dangerous Posted January 22 Posted January 22 By “Bulleid”, I meant the fuel oil tanks, opens etc, the range was €90 per triple pack. Now, the range is €130 per triple pack. Bundle discounts and unsustainable pricing are variables, yes, but the base price for the range has gone from €90 to €130. Not bemoaning, as I fully understand your reasoning, but it’s still an increase which will have an impact on sales. 1 1
Warbonnet Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 it appears the point is just getting missed now and what essentially is a strawman argument has come up, despite @BosKonayoffering context. Thanks to everyone for their feedback and thoughts. Cheers! Fran 2 2
Horsetan Posted January 22 Posted January 22 2 hours ago, Tractionman said: ... in sterling zone, salaries for most have not kept up with inflation at all, and in many areas of employment we have taken a pay cut in real terms, so the spare cash is really just no longer there sadly it's going on fuel, food, and general living. In my case, it's also going on a funeral as a family member died on the morning of 9th January. Enjoy the models during our lifetime; we're grateful that they exist at all. But always remember that we won't be around forever.....so choose your favourite model and arrange to have it buried* with you. *Note: models are not generally permitted to go with the deceased in the case of cremation; always check local disposal regulations. 3 1
Sea Breezer Posted January 22 Posted January 22 43 minutes ago, Warbonnet said: it appears the point is just getting missed now and what essentially is a strawman argument has come up, despite @BosKonayoffering context. Thanks to everyone for their feedback and thoughts. Cheers! Fran I don’t think it’s fair to say that. You said yourself: “If we did a new run of opens, and put the price up to 130 euro, you would then have a case.” The 2 runs of H-Vans saw a price jump from €89.99 to €129.95. I got 2 packs from the first “fitted” run of H-Vans. I have not bought any of the latest “unfittted” H-Vans because of the price. Now don’t get me wrong I really appreciate all IRM have done for the Irish modelling scene. I have spent many many weeks wages on IRM stuff and have zero regrets. I do appreciate the difficulties seen in the Irish market at the minute. I think that there has been a bit of an influx of the more niche type products lately, which perhaps is another factor to consider in the slow down in sales. I have bought every offering in the Bulleid range, even though that is not exactly my era. The Hunslets and Maroon Mk2’s are not on my list. They are just too niche for me. I will say that I would buy at least 4 C-Classes, and several packs of any 1980/1990’s era freight wagons such as bagged cement, barytes, double stack sugar beet, especially given they ran in block trains. Just trying to give honest feedback here as I really want to see IRM continue to revolutionise the Irish scene. Thanks 3 2 2
Colin_McLeod Posted January 22 Posted January 22 10 hours ago, seagoebox said: In reply to POL_PMB's post of earlier, I attach some bumph from NIR's Blue n Grey launch.... The very extensive (compared to today) menu was all cooked up by Mella in the kitchen of 547! My own painting of the event. 7
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