Ernies Massive Irish 1930's to 2005 Photo Archive

[leslie10646]

Now you tell me Jon!

Well, the cattle wagon transfers are WHITE and the numerals stencilled.

Anyway, you can hardly tell with a number that's 2mm high?

[jhb171achill]

That's correct, Leslie - the vast majority of those wagons were built well after the first few years of CIE. White was the norm from the early to mid 50s! So it's very much correct for your vans and cattle trucks. In fact it's the only show in town.

I only ever saw the light green on old wagon bodies in fields, where a hedge had sheltered a side of a vehicle possibly sold off i before 1954.....

Edited October 20, 2019 by jhb171achill

[leslie10646]

Fields? JHB, reminds of the famous photo of The Lads against a hedgerow when out surveying.

[Mayner]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:26 AM, JasonB said:

As Fran has already said, the recession was the final nail in the coffin. But cement movements had already began to slow in the mid 2000's. And this was in the middle of the largest building boom this country had ever seen. Says alot about IE's relentless move away from freight at the time.  

The run down of Irish Railfreight during the last 16 years is mainly a result of a combination of IE implementing  Irish Government transport policy and increased competition as a result of EU de-regulation.

While the Irish Government is allowed to subsidies loss making public transport services, the Government is apparently not prepared to subsidies IEs freight operations due to a potential breach of EU competition regulations. One Transport Minister (round 2002-2005) is on the record that the Government is not prepared to subsidies IE to transport freight by rail because of competition legislation.

CIE and Irish Cement came into existence during an era of protectionism when it was acceptable for a government to grant a monopoly to establish or protect and industry.

IEs cement traffic was operating on borrowed time from the  mid-late 1980's  Cement Limited lost significant market share as competing cement manufacturers and importers entered the Irish cement market in the late 1980s, IE lost its near monopoly position in licensed haulage when the Irish Road Transport Industry was de-regulated during the 1990s. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Broithe]

Railfreight will always be an awkward proposition in a country with few inland population centres, and very small ones at that.

It's not like the UK with Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, etc, all virtually dependent on overland transport.

If you're going to need to truck stuff for the last twenty miles anyway, then you might as well truck it for the whole hundred and not be loading/unloading it twice...

[Irishswissernie]

Three more HC Casserley images, all SLNC rolling stock, Enniskillen, Cattle wagons 115 & 78, Manorhamilton, Brake Van No 1 & Dromahair, Brake van no 6. 22 April 1953

The Brake vans look similar but the side planking strips are different in number/width. Just noticed the footboards are different too!

Ernie

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Irishswissernie

[JasonB]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:41 AM, Mayner said:

The run down of Irish Railfreight during the last 16 years is mainly a result of a combination of IE implementing  Irish Government transport policy and increased competition as a result of EU de-regulation.

While the Irish Government is allowed to subsidies loss making public transport services, the Government is apparently not prepared to subsidies IEs freight operations due to a potential breach of EU competition regulations. One Transport Minister (round 2002-2005) is on the record that the Government is not prepared to subsidies IE to transport freight by rail because of competition legislation.

CIE and Irish Cement came into existence during an era of protectionism when it was acceptable for a government to grant a monopoly to establish or protect and industry.

IEs cement traffic was operating on borrowed time from the  mid-late 1980's  Cement Limited lost significant market share as competing cement manufacturers and importers entered the Irish cement market in the late 1980s, IE lost its near monopoly position in licensed haulage when the Irish Road Transport Industry was de-regulated during the 1990s. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I didn't go into the politics behind my comment. But whether it was Irish Rails decision or their paymasters, it has resulted in the demise of freight movements before and since. That was the point I was making. I never said cement, or any other freight carried by Irish Rail wasn't loss making. Whatever way you look at it, it's sad to see. 

[Irishswissernie]

I have acquired some more negatives all taken in October 1960. Back in the last Century when I was young and single there were several  people selling duplicate slides. This was before the days of Colourrail. I recall Colourviews, CCQ Slides and several others including  GTR Slides. Gerald T Robinson stopped trading many years ago and I have acquired a fair number of his British originals. I also knew that he had made one visit to Eire back in 1960 but the Ektachrome views he took didn.t come out too well and they were destroyed, however I asked several years ago about the B&W negatives and out of the blue this week I have managed to acquire those. There are approx 140, mainly of dead and dying steam and these will be added to Flickr in due course. There are some others though. Here are a couple: State Coach 346 and Saloon 47 at Inchicore together with F6 42. 25 October 1960

Ernie

[Irishswissernie]

Here is another GT Robinson shot from October 1960 Probably not as comfortable as an ICR but far more interesting Ex GNRI railbus 2 (F3) I think

 

Ernie

[jhb171achill]

I wonder what's going on with the GNR railbus as late as 1960? I'm presuming it's at Dundalk?

The best thoughts I can assemble are that it's being re-done for Cultra, cab removed - BUT - I do not think that ever happened to what was then 8178.

CIE certainly didn't rebuild any of these.

Is it possible that GTR inadvertently included a photo from, say, a few years earlier when these things were still operating to Oldcastle and Bundoran? Or, is it possible that it's been left, half-rebuilt but now abandoned, in the siding for the three years since the GNR closures took place? It's got new sheeting on the side and the cab is missing. 

[Galteemore]

I’m not sure either. I think the Cultra one was at Portadown by the 60s because my dad remembers the shed foreman starting it up for him! 

[jhb171achill]

Correct. It was stabled mostly at Goraghwood.

My dad used it as his "runabout" when inspecting the Irish North lines.

[minister_for_hardship]

Were these conversions from existing road buses or were they built as railbuses from the outset?

Edited December 16, 2019 by minister_for_hardship

[jhb171achill]

Conversions in this case, plus the SLNCR ones.

Indeed, could this be the SLNCR one that was sent away to Dundalk, finally left behind there by 1960? That's a possibility for this photo.

[Galteemore]

Intriguing possibility. 2A was sold for scrap from Dundalk, in the auction of the SLNC’s southern assets in spring 1959, to the Hammond Lane Foundry. This could be it, but the headlamp looks wrong. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Galteemore

[Irishswissernie]

The photographer Gerald T Robinson also gave me his notebook and he has it down as GNR Leyland Railbus No 2 at Inchicore 23 October 1960. I looked up the info in the 'bible' Norman Johnston's "Locomotives of the GNRI page 165.It's number as built in Jan 1935 was F but when the Diesel Railcars D E F & G came along the railbus was re-numbered F3 In 1944 F3 was damaged in an accident and another road bus was converted to replace it  also being numbered F3. In 1947 the GNR again re-numbered this railbus as 2.

At the same time 2 further railbus's were taken over from the DN&GR and the the 4 became Nos 1 to 4 Of these 3 was scrapped in 1955. 1 & 4 were transfered to Departmental use in 1956 leaving 2 as the last one in public service The other 2 were re-numbered8178 and 8177. 8178 went to the UTA and is the one preserved as Railcar 1 at Cultra. 8177 was scrapped  by CIE.

I reckon the photograph is of the replacement F3 converted in 1944 after withdrawal from public service. The GNRI appears to have converted a total of 7 road buses of this type 2 for the SLNCR, 2 for the DN&GR and 5 (1 being a replacement) for themselves.

Many thanks to the late Norman Johnston for ferreting all this info out, I hope I have interpreted it correctly.  Now I'm off for a lie down!

ERnie

 

[DiveController]

Some nice new addition to Ernie's archive

I always like to look in the background and what are they?

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by DiveController

[minister_for_hardship]

Henkel bubble cars.

[Broithe]

59 minutes ago, DiveController said:

I always like to look in the background and what are they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_Kabine

[Galteemore]

SLNC goods train in 1953...wonderful ! Ernie - thanks so much for all this.....

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Galteemore

[Irishswissernie]

Flickr is getting busier now its Christmas I think because its a therapeutic refuge for harassed husbands suffering from frantic purchasing by their loved ones of several tons of comestibles as the shops are going to be shut for 24 hours! Here are a few of Gerald Robinson's from October 1960. Broadstone October 1960

Ernie

[Irishswissernie]

Turf Burner 23 Oct 1960 GT Robinson

Broadstone October 1960

Guinness Brewery Oct 1960

Ernie

[DiveController]

Interesting to see the hogsheads and kegs like new metal casks rather than cylindrical kegs. Lovely views of the old unfitted covered wagons. By 1960 Broadstone station and works had closed and although the loco depot seems a hove of activity the  loco depot was in its last last year. Dieselisation was now well under way and steam singing its swan song. Lots of oil tankers behind the turf burner although that poor old open wagon has seen better days. 

Interesting photos. Thanks for posting!

[Irishswissernie]

A query about this one, Gerald Robinson lists this as Inchicore but the raised trestle doesn't ring a bell whereas Broadstone did have one. Can anyone confirm location! 716 23 Oct 1960

Thanks.

Ernie

Edited December 27, 2019 by Irishswissernie

[DiveController]

The only raised track that I'm aware of at Inchicore would have been to the GSR coaling tower, but not sure why the hoppers and fuel oil would have been up there?

From your good self

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by DiveController
Photo added

[Irishswissernie]

It is at Inchicore, I've found another photo on the Net that confirms that the trestle to the coal stage was redundant when the Coaling Tower came into use. The trestle line would have then just be used for storage hemce the various wagons on there.

Ernie

[Lambeg man]

Hi All,

Going back to the Railbus photo above, it is without doubt No. 2. No's 1 & 4 became departmental inspection vehicles and No. 3 was scrapped in 1955. Only No. 2 remained as a Railbus, going to CIE in 1958. It is not the SLNCR vehicle as they kept their Howden/Meredith wheels on the front to the end, whereas the GNR fitted theirs with the solid type front axle seen in the photo. For a comparison picture of No. 2 in earlier better health, see page 42 of 'Diesel Dawn'. What is equally interesting is the Brake vehicle behind still apparently in GNR livery. It appears to be the classification 'L 13' No. c114n.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Lambeg man

[Lambeg man]

The above photo of No. 84 at Dundalk is also of interest in that it is finally on its way to the morgue sidings for scrapping, having been in use for some time as a stationary boiler for the Works. Hence all the strange pipework on the front and the steam outlet pipe on the top right of the smokebox door.

Note also the two ex-GNR engines (a 4-4-2T and a 4-4-0) behind ex-GNR No. 91 (2-4-2T) in one of the Broadstone pictures.

Any more on the way Ernie?  

Edited December 29, 2019 by Lambeg man

[Irishswissernie]

3 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

 

Any more on the way Ernie?  

Another 118 Negatives to go from GT Robinson and a fair number of HC Casserley negs ignoring the duplicates as he was fond of taking a fair number of near identical shots. Apparently he did his own developing etc so hedged his bets re processing the film.

 

Ernie

[DiveController]

7 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

It is at Inchicore, I've found another photo on the Net that confirms that the trestle to the coal stage was redundant when the Coaling Tower came into use. The trestle line would have then just be used for storage hemce the various wagons on there.

Ernie

Do you have a link for that photo, Ernie? Interested in coaling stages and towers in Ireland but there seems to be few photos/ little written about them 

2 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

 No. 84 at Dundalk is also of interest in that it is finally on its way to the morgue sidings for scrapping, having been in use for some time as a stationary boiler for the Works. Hence all the strange pipework on the front and the steam outlet pipe on the top right of the smokebox door.

And the chocks under the wheels confirming you point about it being stationary

[Irishswissernie]

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/PHOTO-INCHICORE-RAILWAY-LOCO-SHED-/362618481531?hash=item546dbeeb7b

 

Its a photo on Ebay, not brilliant but you can see that the coaling tower bunker was fed by wagons being winched up the right hand side to the top and there is a gap between it and the old trestle.

There is also a photo on page 13 of Midland Publishings book "Great Southern Railways, an Irish Railway Pictorial  by Donal Murray.

Ernie

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Irishswissernie

[Irishswissernie]

Gerald Robinson describes this as an ex D&SER Buffet Car. Limerick Junction 24 October 1960. Desmond Coakham mentions a Kitchen Car converted from a bogie Brake coach, could this be it?

 ERNIE

Edited January 3, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[DiveController]

On 12/29/2019 at 2:21 PM, Irishswissernie said:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/PHOTO-INCHICORE-RAILWAY-LOCO-SHED-/362618481531?hash=item546dbeeb7b

 not brilliant but you can see that the coaling tower bunker was fed by wagons being winched up the right hand side to the top and there is a gap between it and the old trestle.

There is also a photo on page 13 of Midland Publishings book "Great Southern Railways, an Irish Railway Pictorial  by Donal Murray.

Thanks looked at that photo. I have the GSR book by Murray. Shame that picture is so small. there don't seem to be many closer views or from another angle but reasonable view of the gantry all right.

On 1/2/2020 at 4:11 AM, Irishswissernie said:

Gerald Robinson describes this as an ex D&SER Buffet Car. Limerick Junction 24 October 1960. Desmond Coakham mentions a Kitchen Car converted from a bogie Brake coach, could this be it?

 ERNIE

These old coaches are very interesting but don't have a great knowledge of the DSER stock. Nice 1950s built composite in the background and brake laminate behind the DSER

Edited January 12, 2020 by DiveController

[Irishswissernie]

Added a splash of colour to Flickr today; it probably didn't stay that clean for long!

Ernie

[DiveController]

On 1/2/2020 at 4:11 AM, Irishswissernie said:

Gerald Robinson describes this as an ex D&SER Buffet Car. Limerick Junction 24 October 1960. Desmond Coakham mentions a Kitchen Car converted from a bogie Brake coach, could this be it?

 ERNIE

So on the weekend I decided to look in my copy of Shepherd and Beesley's DSER in which I thought there was a rather comprehensive listing of rolling stock including conversions (and back). How hard could it be to find one of these buffet cars surviving well into the steam to diesel transition. That coach seems to be 19D or more likely 29D on  the better quality Flickr original but there seemed to be little in the restaurant/buffet section at all let alone a match even in the brakes. I'll have another look 

Edited January 23, 2020 by DiveController