Brand new ammonias, not yet sent out on trial.

[jhb171achill]

About 1975/6? Undated. They had their trial trip, which I have silent colour cine of, a couple of days later.

 

 

And yes, it's probably going to be upside down. Prepare to stand on your heads!

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by jhb171achill

[josefstadt]

[Railer]

Impressive beasts, they are/were of French origin?

[jhb171achill]

I'm not sure, Railer - I remember hearing at the time, but I can't remember. Even then, I was an oul philistine; the modern stuff didn't interest me as much as the loose-coupled, four-wheeled era, then drawing to a close!

[David Holman]

Saturn V rocket out of nuclear submarine school of design, methinks...

[DiveController]

Impressive beasts, they are/were of French origin?

Girel, FR if I remember correctly. Not in US at the moment so I don't have any books in front of me

[jhb171achill]

Incidentally, for modeller's, the lower part and the bogies and drawgear were a very dark green, similar to UTA green, not the brownish colour they look in this photo, which has become faded.

[josefstadt]

Impressive beasts, they are/were of French origin?

 

Indeed they were Railer. Builders were Fauvet Girel of Lille, France.

[Glenderg]

For some reason I think that this is the approved livery rather than the trial vehicle. I have photos which show a vehicle with a different underframe altogether, supports to the tank etc. which I wondered was a UK/continental version on irish bogies, which I think was the trial wagon. I'll post up the image later, see if it tickles a few heads.

[jhb171achill]

Livery wise, this is the way they went out. I have a cine of the trial train,but also remember seeing them in early years quite often, when they were clean! (They didn't stay that way).

[DiveController]

Were they ever purchased? Initially they were leased from STS in London

[jhb171achill]

No idea, Dive.... they had standard cast CIE numberplates on them if that means anything....

[Garfield]

I think I remember hearing that they were purchased in the end.

 

Weren't they scrapped here? I'm guessing they would have been returned to the leasing company otherwise...

[Glenderg]

Here are the few photos i have of the "odd" ammonia wagon, with additional bracing over the bogie centres, elliptical ends, rather than cylindrical on the tanks, and skirt completely absent. Can anyone shed any light on it?

 

 

 

R

[jhb171achill]

Possibly a trial one? I have no recollection of any in the trial train which I filmed being different.

[scahalane]

Interesting, I don't remember seeing any of them like that before. I wonder if it ever went into service.

[jhb171achill]

Interesting, I don't remember seeing any of them like that before. I wonder if it ever went into service.

 

That's what I'm thinking, Scahalane. Maybe altered first?

[Glenderg]

That's what I'm thinking, Scahalane. Maybe altered first?

[Warbonnet]

<img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22917"/>

 

Nice variant. Could have been a one off bought in to replace a damaged one or bolster the fleet and regauged from a British or European example?

[Glenderg]

from looking at historical catalogues of fauvet girel stock, it appears to be a french wagon on irish bogies.

 

captiom may be incorrect

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Glenderg

[rebelred]

The Ammonia's were cut up in Cork goods yard so you would presume IE owned them if they hired someone to scrap them. I remember when they were being cut up there were quite a few drivers who looked very pale when they saw how thin the tanks were..they were always under the impression that they were 'double layered'for extra strength/safety, when they saw they weren't I think they mighten have been 'in such a hurry' driving them!!!! I also remember the one without the 'skirt' going around with the other tankers. i was a gate keeper at Myrtlehill Level crossing for a year & a half so they passed me eveyday heading to & from Marino Point....if only I had taken photos back then.... it was a different tank alright, I presume it was bought afterwards 2nd hand from somewhere to make up capacity. Maybe someone on here will know for sure

Edited February 23, 2016 by rebelred

[dave182]

Yeah, I always thought that the cylinders were leased and that Irish rail provided the bogies. I would assume that the 'odd' tank was possibly sent over first on a trial basis to check compatibility with bogies, track clearance trials etc. This wold also make sense as the unskirted wagon looks more typically french in design. Assuming feedback then lead to the modified skirted design.

 

Regarding the scrapping of the wagons, I guess the French owners would have taken into account the age of the wagons and cost of shipping them back to mainland Europe, refurb. etc. It probably made more financial sense to have them scrapped. All of the above hypothetical of course, but CIE in the 70s seemed to have been good with trialing prototypes first before going to full production of a wagon. I'm thinking pallet fertiliser wagons for example.

[h gricer]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22917[/ATTACH]

The unskirted ammonia wagons where a later addition to the 32001-32020 fleet serious and where delivered in 1995, the skirted wagons where the original ammonia tank wagons that where introducted in 1978, a total of 20, on Sunday 23rd January 1994 locomotive 080 worked the first laden 9 tank ammonia, as a result of this trial it was decided to purchase 3 new tanks to facilitate the running of 9 tank wagon trains, the 3 new ammonia tank wagons (unskirted) where delivered and entered traffic in November 1995, after further trials it was decided only the 201class was allowed to haul 9 tank trains, the fleet increased from 20 wagons to 23.

Tuesday 4th February 2003 locomotives 188+145 hauled 12 ammonia tanks to Cork for scapping, Thursday 6th February 2003 locomotives 135+165 hauled 11 ammonia tanks to Cork for scapping, the entire fleet, 20 skirted wagons and the 3 unskirted tanks where all finally scrapped and cut up in Cork bringing the ammonia chapter finally to a close, my memory gets a bit stale, so I had to consult my IRRS Journal for delivery dates, the IRRS Journals are a great source for reference.

Kind Regards

h.gricer

[flange lubricator]

Just to add to H Gricers very detailed post this is one of additional ammonia wagons delivered in 1995

[Glenderg]

Aha!!! Case closed gents, thanks for the input - the additional wagons take so much from their continental cousins in terms of the eliptical ends and the side bracing. Just wondering why they didn't give them the same pattern wagon since it was only a short time between orders?? Another modelling oddity presents itself....

 

Now, is it me or are the bogies an olive green, and the skirt a CIE green, or am I losing it?

 

R

[Weshty]

Nope, two different colours alright.

 

Cracking photos lads, they'd have helped back in the day

[jhb171achill]

Aha!!! Case closed gents, thanks for the input - the additional wagons take so much from their continental cousins in terms of the eliptical ends and the side bracing. Just wondering why they didn't give them the same pattern wagon since it was only a short time between orders?? Another modelling oddity presents itself....

 

Now, is it me or are the bogies an olive green, and the skirt a CIE green, or am I losing it?

 

R

 

The "CIE green" was long gone by then - the shade on these wagons looked more similar, if anything, to UTA green. The bogies, chassis and drawgear were all this shade, not separate types of green. These dark green bogies, like blue ones on the Taras, and (bizarrely) grey ones on the 2600s when delivered, 201s and Mk 4s, become weathered with brake dust on their very first outings!

[Mayner]

Aha!!! Case closed gents, thanks for the input - the additional wagons take so much from their continental cousins in terms of the eliptical ends and the side bracing. Just wondering why they didn't give them the same pattern wagon since it was only a short time between orders?? Another modelling oddity presents itself....

 

Now, is it me or are the bogies an olive green, and the skirt a CIE green, or am I losing it?

 

R

 

 

STS had a fleet of similar wagons in the UK complete with green underframe running gear http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icianhydrousammonia/h8bdddd2#h8bdddd2

 

The Train Ferry tie down hooks are an interesting feature of the 1995 batch of wagons. Fauvet Girel would have built the new wagons to meet current design standards and rather than tool up specially to produce a 1970s design.

[dave182]

Well done everyone, great to have facts instead of speculation!

[jhb171achill]

Just, again, for modelling accuracy; looks like the UK ones have black bogies instead of green....but same green chassis.

 

The green is obviously STS's house colours.

[flange lubricator]

The second batch of wagons 32021-32023 were built in the UK by Bombardier Prorail in Wakefield for STS(Bombardier Prorail) which was formerly Charles Roberts the same company that built the ESSO wagons 971-1013 in 1960's , they went out of business in 2005.

The main differance in the two batches is the first batch had an underframe the second batch didnt.

Edited February 24, 2016 by flange lubricator

[h gricer]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22924[/ATTACH]

Just to add to H Gricers very detailed post this is one of additional ammonia wagons delivered in 1995

Flange that's 32023 it was on display at the Inchicore openday in June 1996, I took a similar photo, a new freight wagon at the time, who would have thought, 20 years ago, a different time, a different climate.

Regards

hg

[Irishswissernie]

Where were the Amonias serviced? I can't remember seeing any at Limerick Works so perhaps there was another agreement with the Leasors to maintain them at Marino Point or Shelton. I video'd a set at Mallow in May2000 with an additional tank tagged on behind the last barrier wagon so perhaps it had just been done.

 

Ernie

Edited February 26, 2016 by Irishswissernie

[jhb171achill]

I think it was Inchicore, Ernie. You'd see them kicking about there from time to time. But I don't know for sure, never really thought about it!