From the Catacombs

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Midland Man said:

Hey 

do you have any pics of Moate station. I know it can be a big ask but with no IRRS it is hard to get pic apart from my own collection from books 

Nothing among these, unfortunately.

[jhb171achill]

Another of the move of the Fintona Tram. Here, it has reached Omagh. The loco left it there and another one hitched up and took it onwards.

Albert Quay terminus in Cork too. Perfect modelling subject for a small city-type terminus.

[airfixfan]

15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Time we went back to the narra gauge. 

This shows just how busy the County Donegal could be. 

Had the border never appeared, it’s likely we might still have Derry - Strabane at least, maybe Donegal.....

First, an absolutely chaotic Letterkenny in the early 1940s.

Secondly, a not-quite-so-busy Victoria Road (Derry). Shunting is in progress, and I understand that it was a hot sunny day (whaaat?). I think the date is either 1944 or 1947.
 

 

Interesting photo of Victoria Road station. On the left you can see track lifted recently looking towards the remains of the signal cabin. Station was rationalised about 1942 and cabin replaced by a ground frame. Cabin demolished by 1948 and with less goods traffic after WW2 would suggest 1947?

[jhb171achill]

Yes, airfixfan, I would say so. I do have an exact date somewhere, but I’m just posting these pics as I find them!

He took a few CDR shots about 1937/9 when he went to Burtonport on the Lough Swilly but I haven’t come across them yet.

[airfixfan]

Checking other notes I have the section from Victoria Road to Strabane was rationalized in 1946 with work done in Derry including demolishing the signal cabin and removing the passing loop in Donemana.

[Patrick Davey]

8 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Interesting photo of Victoria Road station. On the left you can see track lifted recently looking towards the remains of the signal cabin. Station was rationalised about 1942 and cabin replaced by a ground frame. Cabin demolished by 1948 and with less goods traffic after WW2 would suggest 1947?

Victoria Road would be a great subject for a model - a city terminus with NG trains, a high level station building above the 'action', canopied island platform, riverside location.....

[Andy Cundick]

If its any help wagon 298 was rebuilt at Dundalk 1949/50 and as shes in the older livery and somewhat distressed,that might help narrow down the timescaleAndy.

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

If its any help wagon 298 was rebuilt at Dundalk 1949/50 and as shes in the older livery and somewhat distressed,that might help narrow down the timescaleAndy.

Then it must be 1949.....

12 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Checking other notes I have the section from Victoria Road to Strabane was rationalized in 1946 with work done in Derry including demolishing the signal cabin and removing the passing loop in Donemana.

I had thought the cabin was what can be seen in the rivers edge in the distance.... is this structure in the pic something else?

[airfixfan]

Mystery indeed cabin was demolished by 1948 when Casserley took some photos on another visit. Victoria Road became a ground frame in 1946. This suggests that it must be 1947 as Andy is correct about the wagon being rebuilt about 1949. Cabin was after the end of the platform not on the platform. Has senior caught it being moved and demolished?

[Galteemore]

Might explain why he was there....who was he working for at that point? 

[airfixfan]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:51 PM, Galteemore said:

Leslie, I think it’s Carrickfergus , given the two sheds. The left hand one has smoke vents indicating a loco shed, and that would fit. See attached pic from RPSI website. Could occasion be the lifting of the harbour branch?  I also thought of Ballymena but I think that was a brick shed. 

Spending time in the lockdown catching up on things. That photo is definitely Carrickfergus where I grew up and remember various steam engines being stored there in the old engine shed at the end of steam. Is that 27 shunting the Guinness engine about 1967?

[Galteemore]

That’s it. On way to Whitehead either that day or later. I grew up in Carrick too - and went to school by train from 1983-89 - but never saw track in that yard, although the sheds were still there. 

[Irishswissernie]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Then it must be 1949.....

I had thought the cabin was what can be seen in the rivers edge in the distance.... is this structure in the pic something else?

Yes that is the signal box  in the photo. It was on the river bank. The best article on the line is a 26 page article in Railway Archive magazine No 2 entitled The Midland Railway's line from Londonderry to Strabane. S C Jenkins. There is a double page spread pages 20/21 of the station taken from the Craigavon bridge by HC C in 1937 which clearly shows the box with a further 40 photos in the article of the line, many also by HC Casserley. The box is not there in HCC's photo dated 19April1948 but the point rodding from the ground frame which was at the end of the platform looks pretty new.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Mystery indeed cabin was demolished by 1948 when Casserley took some photos on another visit. Victoria Road became a ground frame in 1946. This suggests that it must be 1947 as Andy is correct about the wagon being rebuilt about 1949. Cabin was after the end of the platform not on the platform. Has senior caught it being moved and demolished?

Ahh, the wagon RE-built; sorry, I missed that.

My father's notes suggested either 1944 or 1947, so it is clearly taken in 1947 then.

He was there to do an inspection of the entire track. This was when he was seconded to the NCC.

The "Joint Committee" arrangement included the GNR taking responsibility for most mechanical matters, so loco and rolling stock repairs (and more) was carried out at Dundalk if Stranorlar couldn't manage it. Track and structures tended to be poked and peered at by York Road. Having said that, following his appointment to the GNR he continued by "local arrangement" to unofficially advise the CDR from time to time, and also unofficialy acted as a minder for the worst excesses of the SLNCR's track and bridges, as they could not afford their own resident engineer. He did not seek any payment for either.

In life, those who knew him will remember him as modest, and at all times understated in his comments on anything. However, this same year he reported on the Glenties branch, its track, structures and even lineside fencing and drainage. His report, which I have somewhere (it appeared in recent years in the IRRS Journal) was couched in language uniquely uncharacteristic of him - he was clearly genuinely shocked by the state of it. The report did not go through a list of "this ought to be renewed, that ought to be replaced"; it was bordering on the alarmist in absolutely laying down the law with immediate effect. A complete and instant ban on all locomotives - only railcars allowed, and those subject to a maximum 25 mph over the whole line, but with many stretches of 20 m p h. The track was falling to pieces. I suspect myself that the rails may have been largely original. His report ended insisting, not recommending, that they lift the WHOLE line, dig out the ballast and drains and all, and relay it - or close it. 

With neither the NCC nor the GNR, both of whose own coffers were depleting day by day, in no mood to cough up, the line closed. He used one of  the small railcars for his inspection.

On an aside note, on one occasion, a section of the SLNCR needed to be re-ballasted as heavy rain had washed aside what little there was on one steeply-sided embankment near Glenfarne. E W Monaghan of the SLNCR, who was a friend of Senior, rang him expressing concern as he had had a look at it. The SLNCR had no money to repair it, so Senior arranged for a number of wagons of spent GNR ballast and more of locomotive ashes from Enniskillen and Manorhamilton to be brought out there and dumped. There is a small section of concrete wall still visible at the site, at the bottom of the embankment. The GNR paid for that, but I didn't tell you that, and I wasn't even here when I didn't tell you.....

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

That’s it. On way to Whitehead either that day or later. I grew up in Carrick too - and went to school by train from 1983-89 - but never saw track in that yard, although the sheds were still there. 

Track was long gone by then..... made into a car park....

I commuted there too 1995-7, and had the odd cab run on my way home. This was when NIR was chronically starved of money, and basically run as an inconvenient sidekick to Ulsterbus. A well-known incoming chairperson famously expressed an opinion that the trains ought to "shut up in their sheds by 7pm, after the rush hour". You'll remember the "Save our Railways" campaign. Anyway, I well recall approaching Bleach Green Junction, looking ahead and seeing nothing but grass as we approached it. Reminded me of my travels in the Isle of Man in the early 70s, or Senior's takes of the CDRJC and the T & D!

[airfixfan]

This survey Mystery indeed cabin was demolished by 1948 when Casserley took some photos on another visit. Victoria Road became a ground frame in 1946. This suggests that it must be 1947 as Andy is correct about the wagon being rebuilt about 1949. Cabin was after the end of the platform not on the platform. Has senior caught it being moved and demolished?

[airfixfan]

This survey led to the closure of the Glenties branch which was in poor shape by 1947. Although the CDR operated the line from Victoria Road it was owned by the LMS NCC and then part of the UTA after 1948. Photos taken by Michael Bunch show that this section had the best track of any narrow gauge line in the North West

 This also explains why senior was at Victoria Road. All services were steam hauled on this section until complete closure in 1955.

 

[Dhu Varren]

Some current pictures of Victoria Road station from Google Earth.

Station frontage. The road has replaced the original road to the station, and is now one of the accesses to the lower deck of the bridge. Up till the mid 1960s the

lower deck of the bridge carried rail traffic, both 5'3" and 3'0" (3'0" ceased on closure of the CDR) on dual gauge track with a wagon turntable at each end. Wagons

were moved by rope and capstan, or by shunting tractor The lower deck was eventually converted for use by road traffic.   

The station from the air. The modern building at the top centre of the picture is a new extension added onto the original platform canopy which has been extended sideways

to cover the old trackbeds, and then walled in as can be seen in picture 3.

A side view of the station. The building above the station building is a new build. The city fire station occupied this site at the time of the railway closure.

The road running left to right is Victoria Road. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

I have vague memories of this place in the early 70s when the NWIRS had a short demonstration line at the side of this property - I dimly recall a railcar shuttling  back and forth. In the early days post closure, the business proprietor who owned the site used a railway signal to indicate whether the premises were open or shut.

[Lambeg man]

The interior of Victoria Road station (looking along the former platform) after it had been adapted to become a wholesaler's premises.

Photograph source: The Northern Ireland Ministry of Finance

[Mayner]

On 4/7/2020 at 9:14 AM, jhb171achill said:

 

The 1951 diagram in Patterson's book "The County Donegal Railways" indicates that the signal cabin was located beside the river as in the above photo.

There does not appear to have been enough space between the running lines to locate the cabin at the end of the platform. Foyle Road would make a very nice model for a compact city terminus standard or narrow gauge.

Goods traffic in later years mainly appears to have been fuel oil for the Killybegs Fishing fleet, there are several photos of short cuts (2-3) on narrow gauge tank wagons at Foyle Road and in mixed trains on the Foyle Road-Strabane line. The tank wagons presumably have come across the Harbour Commissioners Tramway and the Foyle Bridge, the Lough Swilly also had a small fleet of tank wagons.

 

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, airfixfan said:

This survey Mystery indeed cabin was demolished by 1948 when Casserley took some photos on another visit. Victoria Road became a ground frame in 1946. This suggests that it must be 1947 as Andy is correct about the wagon being rebuilt about 1949. Cabin was after the end of the platform not on the platform. Has senior caught it being moved and demolished?

That’s a very interesting prospect, Airfixfan! Distant though it is, thete does almost seem something ”detached” about it? Maybe I’m imagining it.

 

9 hours ago, airfixfan said:

This survey led to the closure of the Glenties branch which was in poor shape by 1947. Although the CDR operated the line from Victoria Road it was owned by the LMS NCC and then part of the UTA after 1948. Photos taken by Michael Bunch show that this section had the best track of any narrow gauge line in the North West

 This also explains why senior was at Victoria Road. All services were steam hauled on this section until complete closure in 1955.

 

Yes, exactly, though he did as far as Donegal town too - he used to tell how he went on the loco of the goods at least that far in order to review permissible speed limits.

Sadly, as you correctly say, it was his verdict of the Glenties line which led to its closure.

The NCC had kept the Ballycastle track in very good condition too.

[jhb171achill]

At the risk of the mods considering the following immodest or even obscene, I hereby post a picture of a DSER tank in an obviously uncompromised state of indecency. 

Despite the locomotive’s protests about decency (it IS the 1930’s, after all, and one must maintain one’s standards), I “accidentally” posted this by mistake....
 

The loco was under repair.

[Mayner]

56 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

At the risk of the mods considering the following immodest or even obscene, I hereby post a picture of a DSER tank in an obviously uncompromised state of indecency. 

Despite the locomotive’s protests about decency (it IS the 1930’s, after all, and one must maintain one’s standards), I “accidentally” posted this by mistake....
 

The loco was under repair.

You have hit the jackpot with that one JHB, 64 (427) was one of 6 LNWR Web 4'6" radial tanks purchased by the DWWR for £1500 in 1902

This is what 427 looked like before the Dublin Wicklow and Wexford got their hands on it, and probably explains why the locomotive was not returned to Great Britain with the other 5 members of her class during WW.

The DSER rebuilt 64 Earl of Bessborough (427) with a new boiler and cylinders in 1914,  resembling a DSER 2-4-2T above the running board with large diameter high pitched boiler & DSER style cab, the smaller 4'6" diameter driving wheels are the main give away to its LNWR origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_4ft_6in_Tank_Class

 

[jhb171achill]

I think this next one is leaving Harcourt Street about 1935. The date is right but I could be wrong about the location - anyone?  The leading coach is certainly unmistakeably DSER. What looks like a church spire is, I think, a mark on the negative.

Edited April 9, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

Houses in the background look classic interwar stuff. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was around Dundrum or thereabouts 

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I think this next one is leaving Harcourt Street about 1935. The date is right but I could be wrong about the location - anyone?  The leading coach is certainly unmistakeably DSER. What looks like a church spire is, I think, a mark on the negative.

I wonder if its somewhere on the Midland  rather than Harcourt Street.  It doesn't look like Broadstone as the line entered a deep cutting before passing under the North Circular Road

The make up of the train is pure Midland with an ex MGWR Cs GSR 536 or 540 Class leading and a long string of passenger rated vans behind the second coach, typical of Sligo & Mayo trains.

 The buildings at Harcourt Street appear to be on a much smaller scale than those in the background, the area on either side of the train appears very rural for the raised section of railway between Adelaide Road and the Grand Canal, the line on the left appears to be a siding rather than a running road. https://irishphotoarchive.photoshelter.com/image/I0000kXkNdsSJDXI.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Mayner

[Edo]

My two cents for what its worth

Given Mayner who really knows his stuff around here has indicated its probably the Midland as opposed to the DSER - I tooked around the OSI maps and flickr and the James O' Dea Stuff and generally scoured the internet for a good 45 mins this morning ( when I should be next door edging my elderly neighbours back lawn .....this temporary layoff thing is getting old big time - the wife is offering my gardening services pro bono to all the cocooners on the street and my back is feeling it now!!) and I have come up with Longford railway station as a suspect and this is probably a dublin bound train from Sligo leaving Longford station.......

My reasoning:

Now I may probably be needing a spectacles upgrade - but from what I can make out from the picture and cross referencing with other photos and maps:

The station house in Longford is a substantial 2 story building and is on the same side as the Goods shed which is on the Sligo facing end of the station (the back of the photo).

the Signal box  in the right  location going by the maps and other photos - on the opposite side from the Station house at the Dublin facing end of the Station - to the left of the Signalbox was the engine shed - again clearly indicated by the steam/smoke vent thingy in the centre of the roof.

As per Osi maps -Particularly the 25 inch 1888 to 1913 maps -  the line out of Longford to the south was orginally double line all the way to Mullingar - Im sure that was probably rationalised in the 20s and 30s.....or more probably one line was upgraded ,regularly ballasted and maintained to express train level while the other was allowed to decay and degrade ....which looks like what happened here and was possibly used as a headshunt?

When I looked at this at first - I was sure I could see a "double"  footbridge.....ie - the sigalbox was on an island platform - so I looked for that kind of configuration on the MGWR lines - the only real suspects where Claremorris and Manulla junction  - but in both cases - all other aspects (Station house, Box and the rest of the yard configurations) were "wrong"....so I looked at Longford again  - the Signal Box is on an Island platform of sorts - the Engine Shed and yards were quite extensive on the left side of the picture - but the Footbridge did not extend beyond the passenger platforms....but if you look at maps and modern photos you will notice a road bridge going form left to right - directly behind the footbridge - which could give the illusion of an extended footbridge

 

Anyway im rambling and I have to go and face the lawn.............So I place my bet on the Longford square!

Ed 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Edo

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Mayner said:

I wonder if its somewhere on the Midland  rather than Harcourt Street.  It doesn't look like Broadstone as the line entered a deep cutting before passing under the North Circular Road

The make up of the train is pure Midland with an ex MGWR Cs GSR 536 or 540 Class leading and a long string of passenger rated vans behind the second coach, typical of Sligo & Mayo trains.

 The buildings at Harcourt Street appear to be on a much smaller scale than those in the background, the area on either side of the train appears very rural for the raised section of railway between Adelaide Road and the Grand Canal, the line on the left appears to be a siding rather than a running road. https://irishphotoarchive.photoshelter.com/image/I0000kXkNdsSJDXI.

 

It’s possible. Mind you, some Midland locos as well as coaches were to be seen on the DSER after 1925....

The leading coach is DSER, and the next one is either DSER or GSWR - hard to decipher but I’m pretty certain it’s not Midland. 
 

After 1925, of course, such was perfectly possible, just as ex-Midland coaching stick was to be seen as far afield as West Cork!

Only two carriages, but then a string of horse boxes - made me think initially of Leopardstown Races..... maybe Ballinasloe too, of course.

Location jury still out?

[jhb171achill]

CIE Goods Stock 1970s - today’s delve into the cupboard.

Flats & opens today, vans tomorrow. Truly awful pics of mine with the then cheap camera I had; some taken from moving trains. However, better than nothing and an insight into what one saw away from passenger platforms.

1. Bullied open, Heuston, 1977.

2 & 3.  PW flats, Port Laoise Depot, 1977 or 1978.

4.  Oops! Heuston, 1976. Pretty much outside the door of the IRRS premises, as of now.

5.  Beet truck, Wellington Bridge or possibly Bridgetown, 1977. Wooden ramps were often used to back tipper tricks up to empty beet into these - this is visible on the right. They were made of old sleepers.

6.  Flat wagon, Heuston, 1976 or 1977.

[Midland Man]

 

[leslie10646]

Ah, Jon, nice to see a Bulleid-chassised PW flat used as such!

We did my KIT from a photo of one with a new car atop it.

I suppose you could bash the resin body of my Bulleid open to get that "worn top" impression. Any views on how heavy a hammer (this competition is not open to RTR people).

The pair of corrugateds trying to produce baby corrugateds in the background of one of the shots is pretty easy to set up!

Back to ballasting and working on Richhill upstairs in a very warm loft!

Edited April 9, 2020 by leslie10646

[jhb171achill]

8 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

 

The pair of corrugateds trying to produce baby corrugateds in the background of one of the shots is pretty easy to set up!

 

......And presumably the result was all the little Provincial Wagons kits!!!

[leslie10646]

Damn, you've discovered my secret - now you'll wanted the kits cheaper!

I feed them good Isle of Wight grass - never a Chinese takeaway.

[Dhu Varren]

1937 picture of Victoria Road station clearly shows the signal box next to the river.

[jhb171achill]

Symphony in grey (1)

391 at Inchicore, approximately 1937.