KMCE's Workbench

[David Holman]

Looks the business, Ken, especially that Sligo wagon!

[KMCE]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:05 PM, Noel said:

How did you do the super looking rivets?

Hello Noel,

Rivets were punched onto 1mm x 0.5mm strips using a Kettering Rivet Press supplied by Midland Railway Centre.

Ken

[jhb171achill]

WOW!! That is seriously good quality stuff.... well done!

Great to see authentic goods rolling stock with a steam loco.

[KMCE]

Some work over the weekend.

Progress on the wagons.  Finishing off with springs, axle boxes, brakes, and coupling system.  I have been holding off on the coupling system, which I really shouldn't have, as some integration into the kits may have eased the installation.  Not withstanding that, the installation was quite straightforward with adjustment based on buffer length.

The coupling system of choice is the Spratt & Winkle system from Model Signal Engineering as it's unobtrusive but effective and allows remote uncoupling.

It involves the fixing of a coupling paddle / hook to the underside of the frames, while adding a simple wire loop / hoop stops the hook from pivoting too high.  On the other end of the wagon another hoop provides connection for the hook of the adjoining wagon.

Remote uncoupling is by means of three links of soft iron wire connected to the hook (not done yet) which is drawn down by magnets buried under the track.  The three links and very slim appearance of the coupling system provide a closer to prototypical look.

 

S&W coupling hook / pivot.

 

Connection between wagons

 

Wagons are virtually complete and can now head for the paint shop.

 

GSWR open wagon (Studo Scale Models) , with SL&NC Vehicle Wagon (Scratchbuilt).

 

MGWR Fishvan (JM Design) and GSWR (?) 7 Plank Wagon (SSM) with Class 423 (Scratchbuilt) in the background.

 

More soon.

Ken

[murrayec]

Excellent Ken,

The makings of a lovely little train, looking forward to seen them painted.

Eoin

Edited March 3, 2019 by murrayec

[David Holman]

Like the look of that fish van and often wondered how the traffic was catered for in Ireland. Did fish vans have a specific livery, like the white used in England? Don't recall seeing any pictures of specific fish trains either - presumably it was more a case of a wagon or two tacked on to an ordinary service train? Needless to say, a concept that would suit my new project very nicely!

[Noel]

Very nice indeed. Presume they were painted white especially the roofs to reduce heating effect from sunlight. Must have been a warmer country back then.

[Mayner]

The majority of Irish fish and meat vans were classified as non-passenger coaching stock and were painted in a simplified version of the company passenger livery.  Fish traffic also appears to have been conveyed in ventilated, insulated and standard goods vans.

In CIE days the up afternoon mixed train from Valencia Harbour was classified as a "Perishable"  and connected at Farranfore with the Up Tralee-Mallow which in turn connected with the Up Cork mail at Mallow.

Presumably a similar pattern operated for traffic from the MGWR western lines. There are several photos of ex-MGWR meat/fish vans as tail traffic on the Mayo Line and Sligo Branch in late GSR and CIE days.

 

[jhb171achill]

28 minutes ago, Mayner said:

The majority of Irish fish and meat vans were classified as non-passenger coaching stock and were painted in a simplified version of the company passenger livery.  Fish traffic also appears to have been conveyed in ventilated, insulated and standard goods vans.

There are several photos of ex-MGWR meat/fish vans as tail traffic on the Mayo Line and Sligo Branch in late GSR and CIE days.

 

Exactly.

Fish was also conveyed in that unique Irish wagon, the "soft-top"; the convertible van with an open centre section on the roof, which was left open for cattle traffic, and covered with tarpaulins for other traffic. These were wain stock, unlike (as Mayner says) horse boxes, and dedicated meat and fish vans.

As for livery,  it's not certain that all were in passenger livery on all lines, but as above, most were. Usually this was the base colour but without lining. Rarely was a crest added, though the GSR certainly applied it to to some vehicles. The last incarnation of a wagon in passenger livery would have been the NCC / UTA "Brown Vans", which despite initial fitted WAGON brown in NCC times, then got UTA green, and finally NIR plan maroon.

Even on the narrow gauge,  while I'd need to look this up, there was a horsebox or van of some sort on either the West Clare or T & D which the GSR painted maroon, and CIE painted the six wheeled brake vans on the West Clare in green, though a brake van made from a T &.D passenger coach was painted grey.

There were exceptions. While the GSWR used their extremely dark claret, and the GSR their own maroon, and the GNR used mahogany on bread vans, it seems the GNR used wagon grey on other such vehicles.

I am unaware of information on horse box liveries on the DSER and in West Cork, but there is some evidence that the MGWR used GREEN - not unlike their loco green - on horse boxes. The WLWR had a unique livery for them, though I don't know what I think was at this stage.......

Unlike normal-liveried non-passenger stock, when horse boxes and the like received a passenger livery, the chassis was black, same as carriages.

Edited March 6, 2019 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

Lovely stuff! Have always liked the 'semi' vans, so now have an excuse to build some more!

[jhb171achill]

46 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Lovely stuff! Have always liked the 'semi' vans, so now have an excuse to build some more!

Very underestimated - prior to 1950 on many lines they’d have outnumbered “hard top” vans.

They are as completely indispensable in any pre 1955 layout as track is - main line, branch, broad or narrow gauge,

[KMCE]

The van in question is a Studio Scale Model (SSM) kit in white metal.  It is quite heavy with thick castings; the detail is not a sharp as perhaps it once was (Sorry Des!). 

They are a really interesting wagon & it would be good to scratch build  a version which may be a little closer to scale thickness 

 

I'll perhaps tackle that after the wagon I'm currently working on; a DSER 13'-6" covered wagon..

These are small wagons but have really nice detail and should provide a nice model once complete.

Very nice small wagon which should look good in a rake with the other wagons. 

This would bring me to 5 wagons - an Inklenook Sidings shunting puzzle is beckoning!!!!

 

Ken

[David Holman]

Looking good Ken. One of the many positive aspects of modelling Irish railways for me is the short stock. Compared to most British 4w wagons, Irish ones are around an inch or more shorter in 7mm scale and overall in the same space that would only fit six British wagons, you can get seven Irish ones. 

[KMCE]

Got some work done on the covered wagon.  Quite a lot of work went into this one,  as all parts needed to be added to the base wagon shown above.  Still waiting for a delivery of corrugated iron for the roof to complete, but all other physical work is complete.

All uprights and cross members are 1 x 1mm brass.  Corner posts are tri folded 0.3mm brass cut & groved on the mill.  Hinges and corner straps are 0,5mm brass riveted to suit.

 

 

It has come together rather well and just needs a roof and a good cleanup for painting.

 

Some shots of the wagon with others which give an indication of how short it is.

Wagons behind 495 which also has had some work done today - see Class 495 post in Irish models for more details.

 

More later.

Ken

[popeye]

Beautiful. Will be great when it's all painted. 

[KMCE]

Little Diorama displayed at the Bray Show yesterday.  600mm x 130mm with small backdrop.  Still needs a little more detailing on the vegetation etc, but good for display purposes nonetheless.

 

458 (Still incomplete) ex MGWR Fish van, ex DSER Covered Wagon, ex SLNC Vehicle wagon & ex GSWR covered wagon.

Good reception and thanks to all who commented.

 

Ken

[WRENNEIRE]

Saw this in Bray yesterday, the pics dont do it justice

Excellent piece of modelling, in 21 mm!

[KMCE]

Got some painting done on two of the wagons.  

Interesting that every time you go to paint you discover some last little item that needed to be finished before the painting can start.

Two that were ready were the Flat Vehicle wagon and the Convertible.  Paint on, coat of gloss varnish to apply the lettering (stencil & hand).  I now need to add a final coat of matt varnish & begin the weathering stage; same applies to 423 as well.

With the profusion of grey, the goods trains must have looked rather dreary making their way through a damp countryside.  I can see why the pre-amalgamation companies wanted a bit of colour on their fleet.

More as time permits

Ken

[WaYSidE]

1 hour ago, KMCE said:

Got some painting done on two of the wagons.  Interesting that every time you go to paint you discover some last little item that needed to be finished before the painting can start.

 

is not every bit of modeling rail the same?  you/I discover some last little item that needed to be finished before you can start the next bit.

I saw the brass model in bray, very tasty, and the above gray loco 423 looks fab,

"With the profusion of grey, the goods trains must have looked rather dreary making their way through a damp countryside."  sure, the fire box glow and white smoke on a dark wet day would cheer us all up,

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaYSidE

[murrayec]

Amazing Ken, looking great.

Eoin

[Noel]

Looks sublime, great result. Love the colouring.

[jhb171achill]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:07 PM, KMCE said:

Got some painting done on two of the wagons.  

Interesting that every time you go to paint you discover some last little item that needed to be finished before the painting can start.

Two that were ready were the Flat Vehicle wagon and the Convertible.  Paint on, coat of gloss varnish to apply the lettering (stencil & hand).  I now need to add a final coat of matt varnish & begin the weathering stage; same applies to 423 as well.

With the profusion of grey, the goods trains must have looked rather dreary making their way through a damp countryside.  I can see why the pre-amalgamation companies wanted a bit of colour on their fleet.

More as time permits

Ken

Absolutely professional job, Ken!

Yes, the profusion of grey would indeed have been less than colourful, from the mid 1910s until the mid 1970s...

But we’ve gone right back to it - from orange, black and “tippex” 071s to plain grey ones!

[KMCE]

Started into the weathering.

 

Covered wagon is coming along quite well.  Not sure about the rust on the road vehicle wagon, may need to tone it back a little.

 

An overall misting of dust form the air brush may help to tone everything down.  

 

That Austin really needs a wash!!!

 

[popeye]

Very nice, you are right, the covered wagon is spot on but the open wagon is a little bit strong on the iron straps.

You might be able to wash it off a little. 

[scahalane]

Very nice modelling, and excellent paint finish.

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, KMCE said:

Started into the weathering.

 

Covered wagon is coming along quite well.  Not sure about the rust on the road vehicle wagon, may need to tone it back a little.

 

An overall misting of dust form the air brush may help to tone everything down.  

 

That Austin really needs a wash!!!

 

Looking good. And that covered van is just so Irish - love it!

[KMCE]

DSER Goods Brake

 

So following some research & the receipt of a photo, I have developed up a model of the 15 Ton DSER goods brake built in 1902.  As mentioned in another post the DSER used passenger brake vans or third brakes on all trains, including goods, until 1875.  After this they commenced building dedicated brake vans for goods traffic, which mainly worked the cattle trains and not unexpectedly became known as cattle brakes. 

The brake van here was part of the final group of dedicated brake vans built in Grand Canal Works for the DSER.

 

Starting with panels grooved and cut on the mill.  Roof rolled to the curve for installation later.

 

As the sides were grooved to simulate panels, we need to add the panelling details.  In this case 1mm strip from brass & nickle silver.

 

Yes - these were six wheel vans. 

Having no information on the vans themselves I had to search around for more information on dimensions of a six wheel brake van.  The GNR built 25 ton 6 wheelers in 1914, which I think may have been influenced by the DSER van.  The length of the GNR van was 20 ft over the frames, which I took as a reasonable length for this van and the proportions seem to work.

The chassis has been set up using compensated W-irons from SSM, with the centre axle supported via 0.5mm PB wire to allow the centre axle float (thanks to @murrayec for the advice on this layout).  This works well as the chassis rolls very well without binding.  It definitely seems to run much better than the Cleminson chassis on the GSWR coach  - I may change the coach to this arrangement.

 

With all sides added to the chassis & roof sitting on for the moment, we get to here.

 

A brake ban is only useful if it has brakes - in this instance all 6 wheels are braked, with outside brake rods.  For this I used 1mm Nickle silver strip, while looking good, appears to be too low, and perhaps too wide.  So another solution was devised using 0.5mm square wire.

 

The revised 0.5mm square does appear to look a little lighter & more prototypical; moving the rodding it in closer to the W-irons improves the look.

Still a little more work needed around the hoops down from the chassis to represent the crank arrangement.

Springs and axle boxes were also added to get the brake rodding to the right position - this all needs to be cleaned up with files & white spirit to remove the flux.

 

So - I give you a DSER 15 Ton 6-wheel goods brake.

 

Ok, steps and a little more detail on the roof is required to finish, but all in all I'm very happy with how it has turned out. 

 

A quick shot with the other wagons to put the size in perspective.

 

More soon,

Ken

 

[murrayec]

Excellent Ken,

Love the development of this train, like has not been seen before, what next

Eoin

[KMCE]

Cheers Eoin,

 

Well, that conversation about the DSER third brakes got me thinking!!!

 

A bit more research coming up........

 

Ken

[David Holman]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:43 AM, KMCE said:

9 hours ago, KMCE said:

 

A scratchbuild, six wheel van in brass. That is class!

 

[Mayner]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:50 AM, KMCE said:

Cheers Eoin,

 

Well, that conversation about the DSER third brakes got me thinking!!!

 

A bit more research coming up........

 

Ken

I have my doubts about the Dublin Wicklow and Wexford using brake 3rd coaches as guards vans on loose coupled main line goods trains on its steeply graded main line.

Braking heavy loose coupled goods trains was considered to be quite severe on ordinary coaching, this was less of an issue on narrow gauge lines that used passenger brakes with fully braked stock like the Tralee & Dingle, Donegal & Swilly.

Many pre-amalgamation "goods brake vans" either tended to be a goods van with a brake compartment or a drovers coach with a brake compartment( The SLNCR van 2 included brake, drovers and goods compartments) rather than the classical goods brake van like the GSWR 10-12T brake van which evolved into the standard CIE 20 & 30T brake vans.

It might be worth checking with the Historical Model Railway Association in the UK or transport museums in the Midlands and North of Englind, small to medium sized railways like the DWW tender to buy their goods stock off the peg from builders like Metropolitan Carriage and Wagon, Pickering or Cambrian rather than build their stock in house like the GSWR or Midland

[jhb171achill]

That is a super piece of work, many congratulations.

I hadn't heard of the DWWR or DSER using passenger vans until comparatively recently. Like Mayner, I find it surprising, though not impossible if they were built with this in mind. The T & D, LLSR and CDRJC all used passenger brakes as goods brakes, and although they were narrow gauge and therefore the weight of the trains WAY lighter, the gradients were vicious.

Also, in places like South Africa, with gradients almost impossible to believe, such practices were common.

[KMCE]

Thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated.

 

On the 3rd Brakes being used on the goods trains, I gleaned this info from the book on the D&SER by Shepherd and Beesley who noted this was the practice up to 1875.  It also relates that goods were only really carried on this line from 1855 on, so perhaps there was 20 years of mixed trains before they decided, we really need dedicated brake vans.  It appears the growth in cattle traffic was what raised the need and the first lot of brake vans were known as cattle brakes, before the vans, as per the model above, were built around the turn of the century.

 

Ken

[KMCE]

Meanwhile,

Our good friends Shepherd & Beesley also mentioned in passing that given the rise in gas lighting to the coaches in 1895, a means of conveying gas around the network was needed.  Two old wagons Nos. 131 and 242 (cattle wagons, I think) were stripped and their chassis used to carry tanks for the gas.  It appears these were long lived and 131 operated on the network up to 1959.

No drawings, or even full photos were available, so with a bit of research through loads of photos, it was possible to get some partials which allowed a wagon be built.  The cattle chassis would most likely have been short, so I went for a wagon length of 14"  which dictated the size of the gas tank. 

 

 

 

I cannot claim it to be historically correct, however given the severe dearth of information available, I think this is a reasonable representation.  

The tank is not fixed at the moment as the whole lot needs a good clean prior to painting.  Once it's all painted I most likely will glue it together and blend the elements together with some weathering.

 

Nice little wagon and a good way to pass a rather dull Saturday.

 

Ken

[Galteemore]

Certainly looks right, Ken! Lovely work