KMCE's Workbench

[KMCE]

A few tweaks to the CAD model & we get the Mk2 version.

I detailed the axleboxes to reflect those used, while reverting to the pre 1907 single (large) brake block arrangement.  The seam was put into the inner doors to provide more realistic detail, and some additional supports were provided to stabilse the wagon top to help clarify the detail.

A much better model, and perhaps more accurate to the prototype (drawing anyway).

And given there was space on the build plate, why not a second to run with!

 

Given these are in their pre 1907 guise, I may finish these as either early DSER or DWWR wagons rather than GS to match the other fleet.  With some minor changes to the CAD model, it will be possible to convert these to the later style which can then run in GS trains.

 

I do have a few DSER liveried wagons already & may bring together with these to create their own dedciated trains with suitably painted locos to run with.  A repaint of some of the Ashbury & Convertible wagons could add to these trains quite easily.

I think I'll leave that to another day.......

 

Ken

 

[David Holman]

Another fine project!

[Northroader]

Wonder if the prints would be do-able in 7mm?

[KMCE]

6 hours ago, Northroader said:

Wonder if the prints would be do-able in 7mm?

Yes, they would be - the detail scales up quite well, and wall thickness at the larger scale does help to strengthen the overall model.

PM me if you are interested in partaking.

Ken

[Mayner]

The DWWR opens almost look like early ore wagons with those massive solebars extending past the end framing almost like dumb buffers.

Perhaps a hangover from the boom years of the Avoca Mines when copper ore was shipped by rail to Kingstown (Dunlaoire) Mineral Wharf.

Hopefully some day you will get round to building a typical 19th Century DWWR 0-4-2 Goods Locomotive to haul them

[KMCE]

18 hours ago, Mayner said:

look like early ore wagons

They were indeed.  Those wagons were ordered by DWWR from Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon Works (MCW) in 1863 to be delivered the following year. 

Just preceeding them were the tipping wagons which were very short with a 5' wheel base, and luckily a drawing still exists with the HRMS.  These wagons were ordered in early 1860's, most likely from J.Wright & Sons as MCW was only incoporated in 1863, however the drawing with HRMS is labelled by MCW; perhaps a revised drawing post 1863?  As version of these wagons was used by the Furness Railway in the UK.

These wagons were ordered specifically for the movement of copper ore from the Ovoca (Avoca) mines to Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire) mineral wharf, with an initial 20 delivered in 1862.

 

Usual drawing development from the original HRMS print through to 3D model.  A complex model as it has no floor on the chassis, so chassis contsruction is visible (no hiding then!).

Intersting arrangement of springs & axleboxes, and given the vintage, these may be grease filled rather oil filled.

Model printed well, but strapping on open side proved to be to flimsy and was lost in the clean up process - this will need to be amended in the revised version - I may change these to brass strip in later versions.

Underside of tipping element will need some additional suports, as this sagged during the print.  Supports in this instance were up through the chassis which proved interesting when removing.  This model will need more focus on the placement of suports to get a cleaner and more accurate model. 

Buffers are designed to scale, however they do look very small, so perhaps a little modelling licence can be applied to improve the look.

 

As can be expected with a 5' wheel base this really is a small wagon, and for comparison a €1 in the mineral bay.  

 

 

18 hours ago, Mayner said:

Hopefully some day you will get round to building a typical 19th Century DWWR 0-4-2 Goods Locomotive to haul them

It is on the cards and was some time off, however given the addition of the Ballast wagon, early mineral wagon, and this tipping wagon, it makes sense to bring that model design & build forward   

Let's tackle that a little later - enough to be doing here for now..........

Ken

[Mayner]

The Ore Wagon looks fantastic combination of dumb and sprung buffers, IRM highly unlikely to bring out a mass produced rtr version, real Mike Sharman or Richard Chown stuff.

The British Builders archives held by the HMRS and various Museums are a real treasure trove of 19th and early 20th Century Irish locos and rolling stock.

[Mike 84C]

The Ore wagon is brilliant and such an unusual prototype. 5 ft wheel base x 5 ft 3 inch gauge a train of them must have looked like a string of conga dancers when in motion!

[David Holman]

More than a hint of alchemy going on here! Very impressive.

[KMCE]

Ok - so the Mk2.  Fixed a number of problems from the first version. 

Strapping was beefed up and properly supported so came out much better.  Axle width & height was adjusted slightly as the wagon was running too low on the rails and wheels were not running freely.  Buffers were beefed up and came out with a much more defined shape.

 

Not sure the Spratt & Winkle coupling system is going to work with these as it may be too big.  Thinking of grouping these into a rake with S&W at start & end with 3 link coupling between.

 

The wagons are really short with a dimension of 48mm (12ft), which means a train of them does not take up much space!

 

Need to sort the couplings & get them into paint.

 

Very please how these turned out; Quirky wagon with plenty of character!

 

Ken

[David Holman]

Fab.

[KMCE]

Some upgrades to the wagons:

Buffers & hooks added. Roofs (different types) fixed in place, and for those OO gauge people - NEM pockets.  Some OO gauge wheels added for photos.

Ashbury 13'6" van.

 

Convertible wagon with NEM coupler

 

Cattle wagon - brass rod to be added to represent cross bars, however holes provided to ease installation.

 

No work has been done to these wagons with the exception of adding wheels - these are literally hot off the UV curing table.  Some minor tidying up of edges & support spots to be removed.  The curved roofs could do with a quick sand to remove the print lines.

Few issues to address:

- Buffer collar behind head is too large and needs to be tweaked to reduce size slightly. 

- NEM pocket is slightly too high, but again this will depend on what wheels are used.  Cattle & Convertible are designed for 3'6" wheels (as per prototype) and pocket will definitely need to be moved down.  Not as big an issue if 3' wheels are used.

 

Quick shot of these wagons in a small rake.

Getting to a point where these can be supplied on demand if they are of interest.

 

All for now.....

Ken

[Angus]

They almost look as nice as the 2mm scale ones Ken  

[KMCE]

15 minutes ago, Angus said:

2mm scale ones

I'm looking forward to see those run with your stock (no rush like!!!)

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, KMCE said:

Getting to a point where these can be supplied on demand if they are of interest.

Hi Ken

If you were ever able to scale down the "soft-top" and the goods van I'd be interested in a few.

To 00 scale, that is.

 

[KMCE]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

To 00 scale, that is.

They are OO scale!

I will supply 28mm pinpoint axles - wheels are up to you.  Thus you have the option of OO or 21mm, which ever you prefer.

Ken

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, KMCE said:

They are OO scale!

I will supply 28mm pinpoint axles - wheels are up to you.  Thus you have the option of OO or 21mm, which ever you prefer.

Ken

I’ll pm you, Ken!

[David Holman]

Fantastic work, Ken - these models really look splendid. Presume a floor needs adding too  - at least for the cattle wagons! You are taking 3D printing to new levels, as that last photo shows.

[Angus]

13 hours ago, Angus said:

They almost look as nice as the 2mm scale ones Ken 

 

11 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

If you were ever able to scale down the "soft-top" and the goods van I'd be interested in a few.

To 00 scale, that is.

I think I may have caused some confusion with my top comment so I had best elaborate, Ken sold me some of his 3D printed vans scaled down to 2mm scale. They arrived mid-week so I've not had chance to do anything with them yet.

There's snow on the ground here so my cancelled bike ride tomorrow may allow time to play.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Angus

[David Holman]

Don't sneeze!

[KMCE]

Many thanks for the kind comments.

 

7 hours ago, David Holman said:

Presume a floor needs adding too

Wagons have a floor, well kinda.  To help reduce suction and risks of misprint, I have broken the floor down into a stepped cross shape.  This provides additional strength & also helps to reduce the area of resin stuck to the FEP, thus reducing the risk of tear away from the model.  Large flat areas can cause problems where there is not enough adhesion between the previous layer and the layer just printed - this can cause separation in the layers.  Poor case is a de-laminated model, worst case is it separates from the model and prevents any further printing.

 

These openings can be closed over, but it does allow access to the interior of the wagon to add weight - these wagons are light and will need something added.  There is enough space to add lead, and perhaps some cattle for the cattle wagon - so long as they are slim cattle!!

Ken

[jhb171achill]

They look superb! GREAT to have yet another addition to the range of real Irish wagons.

Prototypes like that lasted a lot longer than many realise - there were still short-wheelbase vans and even old curved-roof "soft-tops" in use in far-flung places like Wisht Caarrk up until abut 1960. So a "C" class at the very least, but probably an "A" as well, would have hauled them in amongst more modern ones during the "grey & green" era.

The last of this type of vehicle would have died with the end of steam, or probably just before it, and before the black / black'n'tan liveries appeared - but who knows, possibly a VERY late survivor?

If or when these go into production, I'll be looking for some for sure!

[Westcorkrailway]

30 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

They look superb! GREAT to have yet another addition to the range of real Irish wagons.

Prototypes like that lasted a lot longer than many realise - there were still short-wheelbase vans and even old curved-roof "soft-tops" in use in far-flung places like Wisht Caarrk up until abut 1960. So a "C" class at the very least, but probably an "A" as well, would have hauled them in amongst more modern ones during the "grey & green" era.

The last of this type of vehicle would have died with the end of steam, or probably just before it, and before the black / black'n'tan liveries appeared - but who knows, possibly a VERY late survivor?

If or when these go into production, I'll be looking for some for sure!

Interestingly I see this thread as I’m reading about the kinsale 1915 crash in which the only picture includes a C&B curved top cattle van!

 

Count me “interested”

[the Bandon tank]

I would be interested in some of these if you start producing them for sale.

[KMCE]

For those following the section in the manufacturers area on the gas tank wagon, I noted that I would be running some prints to establish how well the would print.  Rather that clog that topic, I felt I would update progress here, as I'm not entirely happy with the print result thus far.
 

The wagon has turned out rather well, and I quite like the open chassis look and feel.

There are some striations to the tank body and ends due to the curves, so some tweaking to the slicing software may be needed to smooth this out a little better.

 

As anticipated, supports for the tank proved problematic, particularly with the NEM pocket as it blocks access to the underside of the tank ends.  The tank ends were un-supported and thus sagged away - it's not major, but takes away from the tank which is the key feature of the wagon.

I may be able to get some intermediate supports between the NEM pocket & underside of the tank - a little more work in getting them out post print, however it's worth a try.

 

The provision of holes on the underside of the tank did work out well, allowing uncured resin out.  This should provide a good basis for adding weight in the form of sand / ballast & plugging the holes with wax or similar.

 

A little more work & hopefully we can get better results.

 

All for now,

Ken

[Killian Keane]

Thats looking very nice, I wonder if it might be an idea to print the tank itself as a separate item that could plug into the chassis? 

[David Holman]

Must admit that was my thought too, probably because more 'traditional' modelling techniques have always been somewhat hybrid in nature, mixing materials too. However, it is interesting to see how 3D modellers are problem solving these days. There is little, it seems that cannot be sorted through ingenuity, the mouse and keyboard!

[KMCE]

Before separating into parts, I decided to re-print, but focus on supports for the end of the tank, and this time I think we have it.

 

Little bit of tidy up and it should be right for painting.

 

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, KMCE said:

Before separating into parts, I decided to re-print, but focus on supports for the end of the tank, and this time I think we have it.

 

Little bit of tidy up and it should be right for painting.

 

One of the biggest challenges in 3D printing is orientating the model for printing and designing the temporary support structure which can end up like a major scaffold structure.

[KMCE]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

orientating the model for printing and designing the temporary support structure

Agreed John.  Your supports are  very interesting and will considerably reduce risk of separation from the FEP, however I have found that keeping the model as close to upright as possible helps to reduce support marks on the visible surfaces & reduce the risk of angled striation across the sides of the model.  I suppose it does depend on your exposure settings, I have found a slightly longer exposure gives a stronger model, albeit with the risk of striations.

 

It does lead to a considerable support structure though!

 

[J-Mo Arts]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:47 AM, KMCE said:

Agreed John.  Your supports are  very interesting and will considerably reduce risk of separation from the FEP, however I have found that keeping the model as close to upright as possible helps to reduce support marks on the visible surfaces & reduce the risk of angled striation across the sides of the model. 

I usually give a slight angle to my prints in 2 dimensions as it takes some strain off the FEP film. As an example of what I mean, instead of pulling off the entire square footprint of a wagon for each bottom layer, it would only pull off a fraction of that at a time, which takes less force to remove and therefore lowers the risk of tearing/deforming the film. It can also help the layers stick together-rather than the bottom of our wagon being flat layers that could peel apart, it is made of many more layers at an angle.

 

That being said you've been very successful in your prints so far, and I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than me. Looking forward to seeing what comes next! 

[KMCE]

10 hours ago, J-Mo Arts said:

I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than me

I wouldn't go quite as far as that.  I seem to have found a balance between printer settings and resolution, however I am finding anything with serious curves is causing striations.  I may look at adaptive layers to reduce the layer height on strong curves to improve the finish on the curved elements.

I would be interested to hear what printer / settings you are using with angled prints.  As mentioned before, I found angled prints were causing strange striations on the final print, however I am open to learning other solutions..

Ken

[jhb171achill]

On 27/11/2021 at 6:06 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

Having seen the finished result, I would strongly recommend changing status from “interested” to “purchaser”; that will automatically propel you to the ranks of “satisfied customer”!

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by jhb171achill

[J-Mo Arts]

13 hours ago, KMCE said:

I wouldn't go quite as far as that.  I seem to have found a balance between printer settings and resolution, however I am finding anything with serious curves is causing striations.  I may look at adaptive layers to reduce the layer height on strong curves to improve the finish on the curved elements.

I would be interested to hear what printer / settings you are using with angled prints.  As mentioned before, I found angled prints were causing strange striations on the final print, however I am open to learning other solutions..

Ken

I've found some strange striations when I put a 20 degree or thereabouts angle on the object

I've done a few things at 10 degrees or so which seem to be much better. A very slight angle in another dimension of less than 10 degrees doesn't seem to go amiss with my prints. If it doesn't work you can always go back to your tried and tested method. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by J-Mo Arts

[Killian Keane]

6 hours ago, J-Mo Arts said:

I've found some strange striations when I put a 20 degree or thereabouts angle on the object

I've done a few things at 10 degrees or so which seem to be much better. A very slight angle in another dimension of less than 10 degrees doesn't seem to go amiss with my prints. If it doesn't work you can always go back to your tried and tested method. 

Thats quite interesting, I usually do my stuff around 16 degrees on my Mars, what machine are you using?