KMCE's Workbench

[Niles]

Really quite excellent stuff! Shepherd and Beesley's volume on the DSER was one of the first railway books I was given and it's great seeing all these tank engine shapes realised in model form.

[David Holman]

Such a pretty little engine and now a very pretty model. Especially like the hybrid construction, making the most of new and traditional materials/techniques. Perfect for this sort of project and so effective!

[KMCE]

It's been quite a while since I posted in here, but then I suppose I had other stuff to do!!

I was reading through Iain RIce's book on chassis construction and realised that I needed to make some changes to the 2-2-2.  I was using a single centre PB spring for the front axle, while the book recommends two.  I also removed a lot of side play in the rear axle and reduced side play in the front axle which greatly helped balance and general running.

As has been mentioned before, I have moved to RC for loco power, and given the batteries in question are 3.7V, I have also changed motors (to remove the voltage regulators), and in this instance gearboxes also.  I bought a few N20 gearmotors with various gear reductions, in this case 300, 200 & 100 RPM at the shaft - this then required some form of bevel gears to transfer this shaft speed to the axle.  Some brass bevel gears were bought and amended to fit the shaft (1/8" rather than 3mm as bought) and a motor /gearbox mount designed and cut on the CNC. This last addition solved a lot of problems with mounting the gearmotor & ensures consistent meshing of gears.  The different shaft speeds were to work out which gearmotor provided the smoothest slow speed running - this loco (and the prototype) were never designed for high speed mainline running, and given the size of my layouts, would never get up to speed anyway!

Gearmotor, bevel gears & motor mounting on display here, along with the on/off & charging port.

 

What is really nice about these gearmotors is that they are very compact and can be mounted nicely between the frames (in 21mm anyway) so that it does not take up cab space.  The battery and receiver were added, which for now do sit up in the cab, but there is a little more space in the firebox area, which may hide them in the future.  All of this clears space in the boiler area for a rather large lump of lead; this little loco needs quite a bit of weight over the drivers to avoid wheelspin.

Cables between switch and battery & switch and receiver are a little long, but can easily be shortened once the chassis is painted & I can make the final installation.

 

So with the mods made to motor & gearbox, plus the few suggestions from the Iain Rice book, the loco runs very well and negotiates points and other track impediments rather well.  It runs smoothly without wheel spin, and as this was never designed to haul a long train of heavy coaches, should do just fine on my small layouts.

 

Still more work to do, as boiler bands, handrails, brakes, etc still need finishing.  I may paint the chassis once the brake work is done to get it complete and then focus on the body afterwards.  Getting everything into this loco, plus sufficient weight for adhesion has taken some time and planning, albeit with some revisions where the first attempt was not quite right, but I think I am on the final stretch.

 

All for now.  More as progress and energy levels permit.

Ken

[David Holman]

Fascinating stuff Ken - really pushing boundaries. Amazing to see what can be squeezed into such a tiny loco!

[KMCE]

Between various bouts of treatment, I have been doodling with the modelling to help with sanity and keep the mind active.  Spurred by another thread on here regarding horse boxes, I re-visited the start I had made on the DSER horse box and made some (very) slow progress on bringing it to a printable state.  I also needed to resolve some problems with the printer, which hopefully have been mostly resolved now.

Anyway, all of the above allowed me to print a first revision to get a feel for the wagon and identify any errors.

 

As these were to run with coaching stock, the brakes are more involved than a standard wagon, so a bit of work was needed on the underside.  Brass wire and cranks need to be added to complete the brakes, but that's for another day.

 

I was curious to see how these would look painted, so a quick dash with some rattle cans, and a bit of sandpaper to take down the gloss on the roof (over did it slightly), but anyway it was to get a feel for how they will look.

 

Detail is still visible, and with a bit of rust weathering they should remain quite clear - brackets and hinge detail on the prototype was quite clear so I was keen to get a good look.

 

Not too bad for a first pass, but there are some errors and details that need to be tidied up.  Brake hangers were not quite in line and needed to be adjusted to align properly with the wheels.  The detail of the lower hinge / spring on the main horse box door is too light and needs to be beefed up slightly.  Holes for door handles needed to be added to make it easier to complete the detailing.

So for now, this model will be consigned to the breakers yard.  Adjustments noted above have been made, and when time and energy permits I'll run another print.

 

All for now.

Ken

[leslie10646]

Yes, Ken, definitely a "Wow"!

Good luck with it - especially as my own efforts to progress to doing a horesbox have taken a big step backwards.

Best wishes and prayers, as ever, for success with the treatment.

 

[Georgeconna]

Quite the lovely little Model there.

 

[jhb171achill]

All in all, Ken - the loco and the (MUCH needed) horse boxes - this is absolutely stunning craftsmanship. Top class stuff.

Hope the treatment is going well. Best wishes.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Great result

[Patrick Davey]

Just catching up with this incredible thread - amazing work Ken, truly amazing.

Hope you are keeping well too.

[David Holman]

Super work, Ken. A real gem.

[KMCE]

So, the horse box proved to need a little more work than anticipated, but I think we have got it sorted now.  Some problems with the printer have cause a backlog, but whilst not quite there, the prints are finally of a quality that can be shown.

What was not initially evident was that the Horsebox had a beehive type louvre on the roof - I initially mistook this as a building behind the wagon in the photo I was using, but sight of some other photos, it appears was part of the roof, and in this case is the only roof decoration.

 

Some detailing needed such as door handles, brake linkages, a tidy up and then off to the paint shop. 

 

The problems with the printer caused a backlog in output from the wagon works, but now that some semblance of normality has returned, we can build the latest wagons.

First up, a basic carriage truck which were used in numbers on the network, but given the simplicity of them, I'm not aware of any definitive photos of a DSER version, so I used some licence to create my own.  As simple short wheel base with a single plank siding with drop down hinges on all sides.  Simple but needed in the fleet.

Slight print error on the brake handle due to a lack of support during printing, easily fixed prior to painting; no real need to print another one just to fix this error.

 

From reading through Shepherd & Beesley book on the DSER it appears timber wagons were in big demand, and while new units were ordered from the UK makers, quite a few were repurposed from mineral wagons.  I have no photos of timber wagons from the DSER era, but searches through the HRMS records showed quite a few timber wagons made for other railways across the various networks, and the short wheel version all appear to be bolster wagons to be run in pairs.  It seams reasonable that the DSER would do the same, considering they were using repurposed mineral wagons; for me, it makes for a reasonable supposition. 

So with a little bit of work we get these:

Obviously these wagons will be permanently tethered together to run as a pair with a timber load - haven't decided if I will use unfinished logs or go with the machined lengths, I can decide later once painting is complete.

 

So this pent up demand from the workshop has added a few new wagons to the fleet, much to managements relief!!

The brake van at the end will need its own write up as it involves multiple materials.  It is much needed as I only have one DSER brakevan at present and given the wagon stock has increased, there will be more demand on brakevans to make up trains.

 

More later as time and energy permits.

Ken

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Lovely work

[Flying Snail]

Very impressive - looking forward to reading about the brake van!

[David Holman]

Amazing models. 3D printing is definitely going up in the world and the skills required to produce these are every bit as good as any scratchbuilding.

[Noel]

35 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Amazing models. 3D printing is definitely going up in the world and the skills required to produce these are every bit as good as any scratchbuilding.

Yes with these 8k printers they are even better than IMP for resolution. Excellent results @KMCE and excellent CAD work.

[KMCE]

Now that the printer is almost behaving itself again (its taken a whole (1L) bottle of resin and many dumped models to the the settings dialled in correctly), I can finally get some more models printed.  I have been working on coaches to add to those I already have.  I figured I needed another brake coach and a compo coach would be good also, so straight from the printer and without further ado:

First up:

1st / Lav / 3rd built in 1907 at the Grand Canal St. Works as No. 15, converted to all first in 1922 as No.25, and finally re converted to 1st / Lav / 3d in 1936 as No.30 - finally withdrawn in 1949.  33'6" over headstocks with 11' wheel bases

And, no, your eyes are not deceiving you, there is a slight bow in the roof.  This element is printed separately from the body to allow access to the interior; the net result is that it bows slightly when curing.  Most of the bowing has reduced overnight, but the final curve can be encouraged with a hair dryer.  This material responds well to gentle heat and can be tweaked to form another shape, which it will hold once cool.

This coach is interesting in that it has vertical timber panelling with modest panelling lines along the sides.  Roof tank for toilet is a nice touch. 

So some work to do in providing a brass chassis, adding handrails for the end steps, brake details, door handles and asscoated fixed pulls.  Hopefully that should not take too long.

 

Second Up:

2nd Class, built in 1875 at Metropolitan Carriage Works as No. 57 and converted 3rd Brake in 1914 as No. 70, - finally withdrawn in 1926.  31' 0" over headstocks with 9' 6" wheel bases

Again same issue with the roof on this one - easily sorted.

This is the Mk4 version of this coach as I have had quite a few fails due to resin quality, resin settings & some design flaws, however I think we have got there this time.

This one also needs a brass chassis, brake details, door handle and associated pulls before going to the paint shop.

 

 

And for giggles, a proposed suburban branch train to be seen somewhere down the Shillelagh Branch line - probably stopping at Coat's Bridge!!

With a nice tank loco up front we will have the 1st / Lav / 3rd, followed by the 3rd Brake providing the braking power with a horse box tagged on for the gentry - perhaps coming back from the RDS show?

After much trial and error (many errors), I'm very pleased at how these have turned out.  Looking forward to getting them on the bench to get some running gear underneath and then into the spray shop for painting - well, once energy levels will permit.

 

Anyway, all for now.

Ken

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by KMCE

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

They are lovely, well done you.

[Flying Snail]

They look really good. Also looking forward to seeing the fusion of a traditional technique (Brass) with the modern 3D in your carriages. This is all so fascinating!

[Tullygrainey]

Those look wonderful Ken. The detail is exceptional.  A great result after all the patience and perseverance needed to get there.

Alan

[David Holman]

VERY impressive - especially all that fine detail you have included..

[Patrick Davey]

Just superb!!!!  Worth the effort!!!  Well done Ken.

[WRENNEIRE]

Soon to be shown in Bray Ken?

[murrayec]

Excellent stuff Ken.

Eoin

[KMCE]

On 26/5/2023 at 12:17 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

Soon to be shown in Bray Ken?

I hope so, and would go so far as to ask for a provisional spot for the June show? 

[KMCE]

A little bit further on with the 3rd Brake coach.  Got some time to squeeze in a compensated chassis with a floating centre axle - I may need to add a little weight to the centre axle supports to ensure it remains put on the rails when negotiating points, but I can get to that as required.  Brake actuators were added along with the interconnecting rods to the printed brake equipment - easier to show than explain!!

All tidied away nicely, and almost unnoticeable when the coach is the right way, but I know they are there!

Brake hoses, couplings, Gas tank, door handles and associated handrails to be added, but coming together rather well.

 

Anyway, all for now.

Ken

 

[Flying Snail]

It really looks great - is the brass chassis something of your own design, or are you using a kit from somewhere?

[Galteemore]

Fabulous. Looks like a 7mm brass coach in primer ! 

[KMCE]

4 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

is the brass chassis something of your own design

No - I use one and a half compensated wagon chassis kits as supplied by SSM.  I have tried many variations of compensated chassis but have found this one to be the best; easy to set up and works every time.  Challenge here was getting into the limited space between the frames - I had to beef up the frames to reduce the warping tendencies in the 3D print, which in turn reduced the internal space for the chassis.  A little bit of grinding was needed to ensure both the rocking element and middle axle could move freely.

[KMCE]

Whilst the energy levels are reasonable, I have had some time to work on the coaches and horse box to make up my short branch train.

 

The horse box got brake gear fitted, vacuum pipes, door handles, and couplings added to bring it ready for painting:

 

The third brake also got some additional work to the chassis to include a gas tank, vacuum pipes, and couplings which also brings it ready for painting.  Grab handles have been added, but door handles will be added after painting.  It may be necessary to remove the grab handles when it comes time for lining, but time for that later.

 

The 1st / 3rd Composite needed a reprint after discovering problems with the Mk 1 version. Some of the panelling was not present and the water storage tank for the toilet was not quite in the right place - some re-working of the 3D model and a re-print produced a much better model.  I have added a chassis similar to that of the 3rd brake along with gas tank, vacuum pipes, end handrails, grab handles, and couplings bringing it too ready for painting.  Painting all three together will hopefully ensure the train at least is the same colour!

 

This all brings us very nicely to a branch line train with 1st and 3 accommodation with horse box in tow.  Add to this loco 423 (still incomplete, but nearly there) and we get a nice short train the fits within my 500mm limit for traverser storage.  I have limited traversers to this length as the layout I am building will not look right with trains longer that this keeping to the 1/3rd rule of train to layout.  The roof of the 3rd brake still needs tweaking slightly to get it to sit properly - as goes for the cab roof of the loco....

So in unpainted condition we have:

 

All for now and the next challenge is to get these through the painting shop without major difficulties - here's hoping!!

Ken

[David Holman]

Fantastic work Ken, making a super little train.

[KMCE]

After a little diversion into 6 wheel coach interiors, I have revised the 1st/Lav/3rd which now has corridors to allow all access to the toilets, so hopefully this is the last revision & I can get on with painting.

The longitudinal partitions do not reach up to the roof level, as the roof includes stiffening elements which protrude down into the compartments, however with the roof on, this is not visible. 

There will be a lot of glazing to do once this has been painted, but that's for another day!!

Ken

[KMCE]

As the 1st/Lav/3rd was a 34' coach built in 1907, the chassis and basic design was also suitable for No. 46 a 6 comp 3rd built in 1906 (withdrawn 1955).  Both coaches were built in the Grand Canal Works and it is easy to see the commonality between designs in terms of roof pitch, side panelling design, no over door louvres, etc.  Thus the evolution of No. 46 from No. 30 was quite straightforward

Panelling detail of 46 and 30 in the background right can be seen to be similar, so obviously no great rehashing of designs around the period!

 

No. 46 in company with No 48 4 Comp 1st (28').  The roof profile is quite distinctive between the two showing what most consider the "DSER" roof profile, however I have found through my research that these high roof coaches may be in the minority - most coaches appear to have had the lower roof profile similar to other railways. 

Anyway, No. 46 still needs a few final attachments prior to painting such as the vacuum pipes and door grab rails.  The roof needs quite a bit of tidying up as there was excess resin overspill  which has left some material to be removed, but not a major hassle - easily taken off with a scalpel.

The plan would be for 46 to form part of a mixed branch line train with some goods wagon and a goods brake, pulled by what loco, we'll have to see later.

All for now, still a bit to do before these coaches get to the painting shop - not all will be GSR, some will be in DSER livery, namely; No.48 plus its companions, No.1 5 Comp 3rd, plus the Metropolitan 4 wheel brake 3 (more later on those).

Talk soon.

Ken

[popeye]

Nice models and I can't wait to see the paintwork.

Did these coaches not have side steps?

[KMCE]

5 hours ago, popeye said:

Did these coaches not have side steps?

Certainly for the models I'm showing above, they are correct compared to drawings and photos of the prototypes. From my research it appears quite a majority of coaches did not have the lower steps; trawling through photos and drawings so far I'm finding probably only 40% of DSER coaches had lower steps. 

I wonder perhaps is it a result of most of these coaches being used on the Harcourt St - Bray and Westland Row - Bray lines in scheduled commuter traffic through stations with full platforms?

 

Ken