The Sligo to Larass branch of the MGWR (with a bit of help from the SLNCR)

[WRENNEIRE]

17 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

 

Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter as it is a very fine model. Scratchbuilt?

No, I picked up 2 some years back, Des from Studio Scale Models relieved me of the second one as he sells the kits for this model
A picture of his appears on his site if I remember correctly, possibly Lissadell?

[jhb171achill]

Ah, yes, I know the one.

I've one of his 800s. 

Cabin fever being what it is, I'm off to revisit his site.

[Irishswissernie]

34 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

 

Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter as it is a very fine model. Scratchbuilt?

Its one of these 2  repatriated some years ago from my loft.

They were jointly built by my friend Iain Young of Sans Pareil Models and his loco builder who lived in Sunderland. Ian did the knocking out of the rivets on the etchings and no doubt ended up with an RSI!. Original North Star kits as were the 2 PP Class I also had built. Des acquired the kits from North Star Design after they decided to give up on Irish prototypes. I think they had only produced 10 PP kits and I acquired the last 2.

I went back to 00 scale

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[WRENNEIRE]

3 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

Its one of these 2  repatriated some years ago from my loft.

They were jointly built by my friend Iain Young of Sans Pareil Models and his loco builder who lived in Sunderland. Ian did the knocking out of the rivets on the etchings and no doubt ended up with an RSI!. Original North Star kits as were the 2 PP Class I also had built.

I went back to 00 scale

 

 

Rings a bell Ernie, I think I bought them on eBay
I had the Hazelwood plates made, the loco was unnamed when I got them
Cracking models, your friend did an excellent job on them, including rivets!

[Irishswissernie]

I seem to remember I acquired some 141's / 071's in exchange which are now on Glengarriff. I don't really have enough room for 0 scale. I'm trying to persuade my son Alan to do some 3D printed SLNCR  locos in 4mm but at present he is tied up building

an extension to his kitchen. One day!! maybe!

[WRENNEIRE]

Becoming a lot cleared now Ernie, possibly one of my top 5 locos

 

[airfixfan]

There are good colour photos of Lough Melvin both taken in 1964. One is at Adelaide and the other at York Road with no UTA Crest

 See Steam Age in Colour and Volume 11 The Steaming Sixties.

[Irishswissernie]

Or just look at my cover photo left! It has been doctored though to "Lough Ernie"

[Galteemore]

18 hours ago, Galteemore said:

I would be interested to see if the burnished red plates coincided with an SLNC loco’s visits to Dundalk Works...

Had another look at Mr Egan’s talk. The arrival of the Lough class in 1951 (they were still in the yard at BP in Gorton when he was talking to the IRRS) was to set in train a rolling overhaul programme for the Large Tanks. Lough Gill was the last of these and was actually at Dundalk when the line shut. My guess is that the dates of the red plates coincide with the Dundalk overhauls.Enniskillen was apparently in the best mechanical fettle of the entire  fleet at closure - suggesting a recent overhaul - and she had red plates. Sir Henry had red plates in May 57 but at time of closure had gone back to black/red, suggesting that Manorhamilton works had readjusted her livery!  I also had a closer look at the BP delivery photo. The coupling rods look very pale so my initial thought was steel. Then looked again - it’s exactly the same colour as the buffer beam.....

Edited May 14, 2020 by Galteemore

[StevieB]

If 00 Works could be persuaded to make a model of the original SLNCR 0-6-4T, I wonder how many they would sell. It would be nice to think they would go like hot cakes but is that being too optimistic/naive?

Stephen

[Galteemore]

Here’s a fascinating shot from Irish Swiss Ernie’s archive. It shows one of the Loughs involved in the 1959 remodelling of GV St, still in SLNC livery. The loco has had no attention from the UTA bar the removal of the double coupling hooks. The broken cab window acquired at Enniskillen shed in the 57-59 storage is still there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5736774130/in/album-72157626756740602/

 

[airfixfan]

Colour photos of 26 in 1964 show no UTA markings except number on the bunker

 But am sure 27 had acquired an UTA coat of arms by the 1960s?

[Galteemore]

Yes that’s correct. Melvin only has ‘26’ in GN font front and rear buffers (the loco above is numberless and filthy hence my thought that this may be an early post-purchase test run). Lough Erne seems to have had the full York Road livery treatment towards the end - and even made it on to the NIR stock list.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Galteemore

[Midland Man]

Will This help anyone..? Taken by Conrad Natzio. Hope there is not a copyright.

 

 

 

stay safe 

MM

 

[David Holman]

 Only just caught up with this thread again. Interesting to get livery details, not least because my own Small Tanks, Fermanagh and Hazelwood are in need of some TLC, mostly just paintwork, but a good excuse to correct a couple of errors...

 My name plates are black, rubbed with wet and dry to reveal the brass letters - a whole lot easier than painting the raised letters red! Tempting to do red background and raised brass letters therefore and Sir Henry can be the same.

 Also useful to see the SLNCR lettering on the tank sides as Fermanagh will be back dated to early 1900s eventually. That said, when I had the pleasure of meeting Richard Chown at the Manchester show a few years ago, and we ran his version of Lissadell on Arigna Town. This was in lined green, with a polished brass dome. Anyone got any ideas when this livery gave way to black? Will post a pic of Lissadell later.

[Galteemore]

Intriguing stuff - look forward to seeing the small tanks again! There’s a 1902 picture which shows a small tank with polished dome and chimney cap, which were adjuncts of the green livery - although the loco in the picture appears unlined so it’s hard to be sure about colour. The brass domes continued even in black livery until the 20s when Mr Egan had them painted over as they had simply become tarnished and had not been polished for some time...As far as I know the Sir Henry class were always black and they appeared after c1905. I’d say you could have green up to 1905 or so.....

Edited May 14, 2020 by Galteemore

[airfixfan]

Good colour photo of 27 on back of IRRS Journal 177

 Says it is 1969 but think it is probably 1967?

[Brack]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:25 PM, Angus said:

I do have a question, I have a GA drawing from the Beyer Peacock archive that I am converting into 2mm scale dimensions to start cutting components in advance of starting the build in earnest.

The drawing has side elevation and top section only which provides most of the key dimensions. However, I don't have a dimension for the cab width and cannot find a clear photo showing the relationship of the cab edge and the tanks to estimate the distance.

Hello folks, after several months of hints/persuasion etc I'm looking in to making some large tanks in 4mm scale for my Dad (irishswissernie). Most likely through 3D printing, at which I have some previous, although usually very narrow, rather than broad gauge (https://brackmodels.weebly.com/).

 

I too had the side elevation of the works GA from the old MOSI site, but not having paid for the proper one the resolution wasn't great (cannot read any dimensions at all) so I ended up asking some questions regarding widths and Dad pointed me to this thread. Whilst the information here has meant that everything I had sketched out in CAD yesterday will now be binned, I have had a small breakthrough this morning which might help like minded people on here. A few years back the very useful beyer peacock drawings on the old MOSI website disappeared as they were ordered to make their website match the other science museum group ones. However it seems that getty images have copies of the images. I discovered this morning that their preview image size has increased, and I could now get a 2048 pixel wide image of the GA, which means dimensions are now readable! What is more, I found the front and rear elevation of the cab. Which it seems might help Angus and a few others.

 

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/general-arrangement-drawing-of-sligo-leitrim-northern-counties-064-picture-id493708064?s=2048x2048

 

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/general-arrangement-drawing-of-sligo-leitrim-northern-counties-064-picture-id493708076?s=2048x2048

[jhb171achill]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 4:38 PM, David Holman said:

Also useful to see the SLNCR lettering on the tank sides as Fermanagh will be back dated to early 1900s eventually. That said, when I had the pleasure of meeting Richard Chown at the Manchester show a few years ago, and we ran his version of Lissadell on Arigna Town. This was in lined green, with a polished brass dome. Anyone got any ideas when this livery gave way to black? Will post a pic of Lissadell later.

My understanding is that the green was gone before WW1.

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 2:11 PM, airfixfan said:

Colour photos of 26 in 1964 show no UTA markings except number on the bunker

 But am sure 27 had acquired an UTA coat of arms by the 1960s?

Yes.

Lough Melvin remained plain black until scrapping, albeit with UTA number. Lough Erne (27) appears to have been repainted in full UTA livery about 1965-7. I remember her with the crest.....only saw her in steam once.

[Angus]

4 hours ago, Brack said:

Which it seems might help Angus and a few others.

Thanks Brack,

That is helpful, previously the preview photos were of such a low quality the dimensions could not be read once blown up on screen.

These drawings are for the Large Tanks (Sir Henry, Enniskillen & Lough Gill) rather then the earlier Small Tanks (Fermanagh, Leitrim,  Lurganboy, Lissadell and Hazelwood ) which I am starting with.

If you do produce a 3d print version I would be interested in one in 1:152 scale (Body only).

I suspect if you can crack getting an easy to build chassis sorted in 4mm scale you will have a queue at your door.

Your models on the website are superb by the way!

Edited June 3, 2020 by Angus

[Brack]

Thank you Angus. I missed that you were doing the small tank first, sorry! If I get the CAD done it is very easy to produce fittings such as sandboxes, chimney, dome etc in larger or smaller scales should people want them (if people would prefer to turn their own in a lathe I understand that too mind). Rescaling the model is about 50-70% of the work required to make the thing in the first place (if you do it properly!) as you need to change wall thicknesses and redraw detail parts to the size/resolution restrictions of the production process. Not saying no, but it might be some time before we get further down that road! Not sure how people do things in 2mm scale, I find O9 frustrating enough (not that there's much room there - it might be 7mm scale but my Sipat is only 66mm long, there was much more space in my 4mm scale LNER Y7!).

This project is something that has been bubbling for a year or two in conversations with dad, as I've become increasingly fed up with Shapeways. The plan is to buy my own resin 3D printer, convert my proxxon mill to CNC (I have the bits!) and then I should be able to knock out stuff relatively easily. Chassis parts shouldn't be too bad if I can mill them, although I've successfully used 3D printed chassis blocks in 9, 12 and 16.5mm gauges before. However I do need to learn how to use a resin 3D printer and how to use a cnc mill, not too tricky, but there will be a learning curve. In fairness my Sipat was finished 6 weeks after I opened a CAD program for the first time, so I'm confident I can get on with it. However I have a house to rebuild, a job, a wife and two youg kids, so time isn't as freely available as it used to be!

 

I'll stop clogging up your thread. Once I have something worth seeing I will start my own elsewhere.

[Angus]

hi Brack,

No thread clogging here, all useful information. I'll watch developments with interest, however slow. 

We are only playing with trains after all, there are other demands on our time!

[Irishswissernie]

I received the Sir Henry Drawings file from Richard (IRRS) last night so Alan (Brack) can now start again. I've also sold a number of original Working Timetables (Not Irish!) which will fund the purchase of a decent resin printer so apart from his job, wife and our grandchildren plus rebuilding his house  if I keep prodding and persuading matters should move on. The re-born Sligo & Donegal Junction is under development, now I'm retired all that's holding me up is taking the dogs out, converting 200 hours plus of Swiss Train video to MP4, uploading scans to Flickr etc (there is a chip with 10,000 scans on its way to me apparently - no Irish though) but mainly fending off questions from Mrs B who can't work out what I do all day!

I think this Casserley neg is at Collooney, does anyone recognise the fence posts/trees - not much else to go on!

[Galteemore]

Great stuff, Ernie. Think you may be right as it doesn’t  look like any of the familiar angles of the main stations. The scenery looks too free of hills to be along the middle of the line. I suspect it may be taken facing south at Collooney. I think Casserley may have had a brake van run on a cattle train, which would also fit - Collooney being the main starting point for the SLNC livestock specials. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Galteemore

[David Holman]

When I built my Sir Henry, it took around 180 hours in total and never thought I'd see a body kit, let alone in 2mm scale! If one day that means we could see a large tank at the head of the mixed train from Eniskillen, or a long cattle train, I will happily queue to see them.

[Mayner]

I built a large tank based on a  photo in Neil Spinks book  many years ago out of tin plate (drink cans) on a butchered Triang-Hornby Princess chassis.

In all liklihood she was pretty crude but was my pride and joy ran pretty well, aprat from removing the outside cyliners and valvegear and replacing the Princess with Jinty driving wheels I don't remember what I did with the chassis. The Princess came cheap second for around £1.50, I chopped her down to a Black 5 following a RM article before converting her to an 0-6-4T one of my better buys. 

[Galteemore]

I remember coming home at about the age of 11 from a visit to my grandparents in Leitrim and eyeing up a Wrenn 0-6-2T in the loft with a view to such a project. Don’t think it would have ended as well as yours Mayner! 2mm would be a fantastic scale to model the SLNC, with the greater scope it gives for sweeps of landscape. As Mr H says above, imagine the 7:20 in all its faded glory - seen at full length in an Irish landscape ....

[Angus]

Having conquered to locomotive roster I am now looking into the carriages,

One question before I delve into that though, whilst looking at the photos of SLNCR passenger stock I came across this picture on the HMRS web site.

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/tri-composite-bogie-coach-no-10.html

My question isn't about the carriage but the tank wagon next to it. It is clearly a CIE vehicle but the tank seems very narrow in diameter.

Any ideas what this might be for (....or is Guiness really that dense!) ?

[Irishswissernie]

Looks like this one behind the coach maybe a gas tank for coach lighting or water  carrier?

I ' ve done a bit more searching through my files and can't find a view of all of a wagon but they pop up everywhere. Westport, Mallow, Sligo probably most termini with Dining Car or through trains from Dublin etc had one knocking around.

The one at Mallow is in a rake of PW Dept Sleeping Cars.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Galteemore]

Yes - pretty sure it’s for recharging gas light. 

[Angus]

Thanks both,

I did wonder if that's what it was, it looks quite antiquated.

Something else to add to the list to model. I doubt any drawing exist though so it will need to be scaled from photos.

[murrayec]

@Angus

Talk to KMCE on that one, I'm sure he can give some info on it;-

Eoin

[Angus]

Thanks Eoin,

I will do, it looks like a different wagon (no end timbers and straining wires) but probably similar dimensions.

[Galteemore]

Did a bit of digging and I think they were also used to charge kitchen car tanks...

[KMCE]

51 minutes ago, Angus said:

looks like a different wagon (no end timbers and straining wires)

Angus,

From my research, they all appear to be different.  I know DSER built two, which ran on different chassis up to 1959.  

They were orgianally built on old short cattle wagon chassis, and I used these photos as the base for my model.

 

I have seen photos of a twin tank units, units with head boards etc, so it's really down to what you want to model.  What I do know it is very hard to get a complete photo of one of them.

If you are interested, I can give you some details of the model I built.

 

Ken

Edited June 6, 2020 by KMCE