Greenway mania!

[Edo]

For those of a certain disposition - look away now!

 

For those of us of a more, well, realistic bent - an interesting announcement of feasibility studies that could massively expand the number of Greenways in the near future

https://www.thejournal.ie/greenways-ireland-5164123-Jul2020/

 

 

Some interesting ones from a railway point of view

Athenry to Milltown

West Clareway - Ennis to Moyasta.

Dungarvan to the Cork Border along the old Mallow Line

Rathkeale to Patrickswell along the old North Kerry/Foynes

Sligo to Blacklion along the old SLNCR line

Rosslare to Belfield along the recently closed Rosslare - Waterford 

And most improbably - Bagnalstown to Palace East.................from a personal point of view - that would be just fantastic to get this alignment back into public transportation - very scenic and would link up with the New Ross Greenway.

A lot of food for thought there - very ambitious - but maybe its about time we showed this kind of ambition - from a railway point of view - it would keep the old alignments and the memory of the lines - none of them are going to re-open as railway lines again.

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

Intriguing. A short stretch of the SLNC has already been trialled. https://crankandcog.net/2016/11/04/slncr-cycle-way-demonstration-opening-day/

[jhb171achill]

One wonders is this why the West Clare was turned down for modest funding recently?

Why not just close the whole railway network and give it over to the Lycra mafia.....who will STILL cycle along narrow twisty roads adjacent to empty greenways....!

[Edo]

12 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

One wonders is this why the West Clare was turned down for modest funding recently?

Why not just close the whole railway network and give it over to the Lycra mafia.....who will STILL cycle along narrow twisty roads adjacent to empty greenways....!

well its either them or Railcars.............close run thing IMHO!

[jhb171achill]

38 minutes ago, Edo said:

well its either them or Railcars.............close run thing IMHO!

Very true - but gimme the railcars any day!

[minister_for_hardship]

Old Mallow line, good luck with that one. There can't be very much left of that alignment at this stage.

If only there was as many interested in a rebuilt railway as greenways that mountains seem to be moved to accommodate.

Witnessed an amusing incident recently at the Maam Cross project site. Picture this, heaps of these cyclists came pedalling through, two mounted the platform on their rufty tufty all terrain carbon fibre bicycles only to be forced to dismount when they encountered the water tower at the far end.

One reportedly asked "is this going to be the new greenway?" despite all this railway track quite obviously in place. It's like a craze, a quasi religious cult. Everything has to revolve around my pedalling leisure activity.

Edited July 30, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[airfixfan]

The proposed sections in Donegal and the North West are just as interesting for obvious schemes not even proposed.

[jhb171achill]

18 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Old Mallow line, good luck with that one. There can't be very much left of that alignment at this stage.

If only there was as many interested in a rebuilt railway as greenways that mountains seem to be moved to accommodate.

Witnessed an amusing incident recently at the Maam Cross project site. Picture this, heaps of these cyclists came pedalling through, two mounted the platform on their rufty tufty all terrain carbon fibre bicycles only to be forced to dismount when they encountered the water tower at the far end.

One reportedly asked "is this going to be the new greenway?" despite all this railway track quite obviously in place. It's like a craze, a quasi religious cult. Everything has to revolve around my pedalling leisure activity.

How did they get onto it? It is, as far as I am aware, clearly marked as private property...... Presumably, Jim would be well within his rights to advise them into which nook or cranny they might place their lycra-carbon-fibre €5000 bicycles........!

[minister_for_hardship]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

How did they get onto it? It is, as far as I am aware, clearly marked as private property...... Presumably, Jim would be well within his rights to advise them into which nook or cranny they might place their lycra-carbon-fibre €5000 bicycles........!

They're entitled to be on it. They're cyclists don't you know?

[Noel]

Don't like the idea of the Rosslare or Athenry ones. Both could be put back as rail lines, but once lost to greenways there gone for good. Greenways earn local communities vast amounts of indigenous tourism revenue and transform the local economies.  Post brexit it looks like our dear neighbours are hell bent on the kamikaze route with a hard over the cliff no trade deal on WTO terms, so Rosslare could gain massive significance as a port that could bypass the UK land bridge handling container traffic direct from Europe to Ireland. The line from Waterford to Rosslare could suddenly become economically viable again for freight traffic and therefore be able to provide commuter traffic to waterford and wexford. Once the line is pulled up for bicycles its gone forever, don't believe the myths about contracts facilitating a return to rail. Local parish pump Politics would stop that. Same goes for Youghal to middleton, huge potential to reopen for busy commuter traffic to Cork as well as seasonal tourism to Youghal.

I'm a cyclist and really enjoyed the greenways in Westport and Dungarvan, but enough is enough, how many greenways do we need. Those coastal greenways have amazing scenery, but many on that list are through flat boring bogland with no elevated views nor mountainous scenery, and that won't attract cyclists. Did the Abbeyfeal one a few years ago and it was third world compared to Westport-Achill or Dungarvan-Waterford with their stunning coastal scenery. Kilrush-Kilakee has some merit, but the midlands one to Athlone is bog boring.

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

Intriguing. A short stretch of the SLNC has already been trialled. https://crankandcog.net/2016/11/04/slncr-cycle-way-demonstration-opening-day/

At least they got the name of the railway right. Had to wince when I saw this full colour poster displayed at Mullranny MGWR advertising the so-called Great Western Railway... as it's known as now!

Worse, some marketing folks thought it best to call a future greenway on a portion of the DN&GR the "Great Eastern Greenway", an obvious copying of the Achill version

 

[Noel]

Minister Ryan should perhaps get rid of his NoX spewing filty diesel car and get an EV instead or getting rid of more rail potential or closing more lines.

[minister_for_hardship]

10 minutes ago, Noel said:

Minister Ryan should perhaps get rid of his NoX spewing filty diesel car and get an EV instead or getting rid of more rail potential or closing more lines.

Do as I say, not as I do.

[Galteemore]

58 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

At least they got the name of the railway right. Had to wince when I saw this full colour poster displayed at Mullranny MGWR advertising the so-called Great Western Railway... as it's known as now!

Worse, some marketing folks thought it best to call a future greenway on a portion of the DN&GR the "Great Eastern Greenway", an obvious copying of the Achill version

 

Yes, if anything there seems to be a growing and informed affection round Dromahair for the line. We took our boys down last year and showed them where my mother’s railway journeys began. The hand drawn sign is perfectly in keeping with the SLNC vibe....
 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

I did the Newport - Achill bit when it first opened - but I didn't dress in day-glo lycra! 

Must do it again, actually..........

[Mayner]

Several of the proposed schemes in Ireland could come with a hefty price tag to compensate existing landowners as lines like the SLNCR & West Clare were abandoned and the trackbed mainly sold to adjoining farmers.

There are a number of examples of heritage railways co-existing with cycleways and bridlepaths including the Waterford & Suir Valley, Carenarfon-Dinas section of the Welsh Highland and Northampton & Lamport in the East Midlands.

Interestingly about 10 years ago the New Zealand Government considered converting sections of the national rail network as part of the National Cycleway Project to stimulate the economy in the wake of the 2008 Great Financial Crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Cycle_Trail.  

In the end someone pointed out that rail was essential to export industry and no operational lines were converted to cycleways though a number of mothballed lines were converted to rail carting operations. 

The National Cycle Way and various rail carting operations has been good in supporting local economies in remote areas where rural -depopulation has become a serious problem with the decline in traditional small scale framing and rural support industries

Rail cycling (Velo Rail)  http://veloraildefrance.com/ and Rail Carting https://www.forgottenworldadventures.co.nz/routes-and-trails/category/2/rail-cart, would seem to be good alternative uses to Cycleways  for "mothballed" lines, but liability issues with level crossings and a new and novel form of rail operation would probably be un-surmountable problems in Ireland

[Georgeconna]

3 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

At least they got the name of the railway right. Had to wince when I saw this full colour poster displayed at Mullranny MGWR advertising the so-called Great Western Railway... as it's known as now!

Worse, some marketing folks thought it best to call a future greenway on a portion of the DN&GR the "Great Eastern Greenway", an obvious copying of the Achill version

 

Heard there  are quite a few Brunel Statues being made now in China to sell along the way, Larges hats too. He would be well chuffed to see the GWR hit all the way to the west.

[jhb171achill]

28 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Heard there  are quite a few Brunel Statues being made now in China to sell along the way, Larges hats too. He would be well chuffed to see the GWR hit all the way to the west.

Hope they're not associated with slavery! 

[NIR]

Greenways, do they really produce €€€€ of revenue for local economies, I find that hard to believe. And let's not forget the last lot of unpleasantness with people fond of wearing too tight shorts.

Edited July 30, 2020 by NIR

[minister_for_hardship]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Several of the proposed schemes in Ireland could come with a hefty price tag to compensate existing landowners as lines like the SLNCR & West Clare were abandoned and the trackbed mainly sold to adjoining farmers.

The proposed South Kerry greenway is currently mired in a dispute between KCC and farmers over compulsory purchase orders, the land was purchased by farmers from CIE decades ago.

There's a great deal of presumption that these projects are welcomed by all, and if they are a silver bullet to revitalise local economies. Unlike preserved lines, 'someone else' does all the work, and free money* is available for funding.

*money may not actually be free.

Edited July 31, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Noel]

14 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The proposed South Kerry greenway is currently mired in a dispute between KCC and farmers over compulsory purchase orders, the land was purchased by farmers from CIE decades ago.

There's a great deal of presumption that these projects are welcomed by all, and if they are a silver bullet to revitalise local economies. Unlike preserved lines, 'someone else' does all the work, and free money* is available for funding.

*money may not actually be free.

One of the successes of the Westport greenway was getting farmers to buy in and convince them the passing walkers and cyclists would not cause problems for their livestock, so it proved, and some of those farms are now running multimillion euro cottage cafes and restaurants along the route. It was dealing with fears and objections from land owners that made westport such a success. I'd highly recommend a visit and cycle along it. Clewbay bike hire are a superb outfit with courtesy buses, will drop you off at achill, so wind at your back, and will pick you up at any of the intermediate stops, so you can do only 10k, 20k, 30k or the full 42k. Stunning wild atlantic coast scenery and cycling through harry potter like scenery and forests over magical bridges and viaducts. A must do for every Irish citizen, and the beauty is its only a few hours from Dublin, no airport hell needed to get there, or better still take the train and pass through Athlone and Claremorris on route.

[NIR]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

...and some of those farms are now running multimillion euro cottage cafes and restaurants along the route.

This is exactly the sort of thing I find hard to believe - these are the sort of numbers you might expect from a McDonalds! I hear the same sort of thing from people going on about surfing in Donegal...

Edited July 31, 2020 by NIR

[Noel]

4 minutes ago, NIR said:

This is exactly the sort of thing I find hard to believe - this is the sort of turnover you might expect from a McDonalds!

Go for a cycle on the Westport or Dungarvan, its incredible the footfall some of these new hospitality spots are getting. A captive audience and very very profitable to provision for. There is one in particular on the Westport and its like a mega pub in the middle of nowhere, a vast complex in old stone farm buildings. A huge employer too, and these businesses benefit from a long season including both shoulders and even mid winter business.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Noel

[minister_for_hardship]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

One of the successes of the Westport greenway was getting farmers to buy in and convince them the passing walkers and cyclists would not cause problems for their livestock, so it proved, and some of those farms are now running multimillion euro cottage cafes and restaurants along the route. It was dealing with fears and objections from land owners that made westport such a success. I'd highly recommend a visit and cycle along it. Clewbay bike hire are a superb outfit with courtesy buses, will drop you off at achill, so wind at your back, and will pick you up at any of the intermediate stops, so you can do only 10k, 20k, 30k or the full 42k. Stunning wild atlantic coast scenery and cycling through harry potter like scenery and forests over magical bridges and viaducts. A must do for every Irish citizen, and the beauty is its only a few hours from Dublin, no airport hell needed to get there, or better still take the train and pass through Athlone and Claremorris on route.

I believe the tunnel at Newport is not part of it due to landowner issues.

I don't doubt the success of the above but let's not forget that region was already on the tourist map for many many decades, probably kick started by the MGWR, and the results may not be identical in less traditionally touristed areas. Dungarvan was an up and coming town in it's own right before the greenway appeared.

There's current debate over a portion of WRC to become greenway, the scenery and towns there are, let's be honest, quite pedestrian at best, unattractive to tourists at worst.

Edited July 31, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Georgeconna]

3 hours ago, NIR said:

This is exactly the sort of thing I find hard to believe - these are the sort of numbers you might expect from a McDonalds! I hear the same sort of thing from people going on about surfing in Donegal...

Quite. The Media Love  banding about the phrase 'Millions' as if it was spare change.  

[Horsetan]

17 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

 

.... Everything has to revolve around ...pedalling leisure activity.

Should that not be "peddling" rather than "pedalling "?

[mphoey]

new idea for IRM new greenway set to include old track bed new cycle tracks and a box of cyclists

[NIR]

and a megapub for them all to get pissed up in after an all you can eat carvery and greenway experience

[Noel]

1 hour ago, Georgeconna said:

Quite. The Media Love  banding about the phrase 'Millions' as if it was spare change.  

Decent food pub can do 5m/pa handy on food & BEV in the right location. 5m is not a large turnover if your employing close to 100 staff on rosters, chefs, managers, etc.

[jhb171achill]

In the Achill area, where I have many friends and contacts in the tourism industry, they were able to tell me that the greenway there brings in some 50-60,000 people a year on top of what they had. Most eat and drink there, and while Achill and Mulrany experience a modest increase in overnight stays, Newport and above all, Westport, have benefitted more.

Several pubs along the way - Nevins at Tieranaur, Daly’s in Mulrany and the Ostán Oilean Acla (“Alice’s”) at the bridge onto the island, have had their daytime meals take off BIG time.

Bike hire firms along the way, and several souvenir and coffee shops en route, have created about fifty new permanent jobs, over half of these in Newport and Westport.