BREXIT NEW V A T ON EBay TO IRISH

[jhb171achill]

OK, for dummies; namely me - 

If, as NIR says, this is nothing to do with Brexit, then what measure have been put in place, and why, regarding:

-  The fact that the last time I bought anything on fleabay OR Hattons, which would have been maybe a year ago in the first instance, and 2 or 3 years ago with the latter, was I able to pay the amount plus what their website charged for postage, put on the kettle and await the doorbell ringing - and this can't be done now.

-  If not Brexit, why are customs charges now being charged in Britain?

-  Why are they being charged in Ireland?

-  Why are BOTH apparently being charged in some cases?

-  Why are VAT charges also appearing in the same way?

-  Is there an implication that without Brexit none of this would have happened, and IS it correct or not? If not, the implication is that had the UK remained in the EU, would have happened anyway; is this fully correct? If it is, does that mean a German buying something from Austria, or Ireland buying from Italy is also thus hit?

[NIR]

It's something coincident with Brexit. If European governments had not already decided to introduce a new customs regime in 2020 then the effect of Brexit would have been less.

Edited February 27, 2021 by NIR

[DJ Dangerous]

24 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

OK, for dummies; namely me - 

If, as NIR says, this is nothing to do with Brexit, then what measure have been put in place, and why, regarding:

-  The fact that the last time I bought anything on fleabay OR Hattons, which would have been maybe a year ago in the first instance, and 2 or 3 years ago with the latter, was I able to pay the amount plus what their website charged for postage, put on the kettle and await the doorbell ringing - and this can't be done now.

-  If not Brexit, why are customs charges now being charged in Britain?

-  Why are they being charged in Ireland?

-  Why are BOTH apparently being charged in some cases?

-  Why are VAT charges also appearing in the same way?

-  Is there an implication that without Brexit none of this would have happened, and IS it correct or not? If not, the implication is that had the UK remained in the EU, would have happened anyway; is this fully correct? If it is, does that mean a German buying something from Austria, or Ireland buying from Italy is also thus hit?

 

Of  course it's to do with BrExit.

The whole goal of BrExit was to limit freedom of movement of people, goods and services, in other words, to "take back control".

The double taxation will happen if the seller does not properly declare that tax has already been paid, OR if you use a third party mail forwarding service like AddressPal.

In using a third-party service like that, you are doing as @NIR says, and having a product delivered to the UK, then subsequently exported to Ireland, almost like it's being sold a second time.

There is no friction at all when in one EU country and buying from another EU country - you pay whatever tax is due when you buy, and that's it, it's delivered to your door.

It's when you buy from or sell to a third country, be it China, the UK, the US or wherever, that the extra paperwork and the friction comes into play.

Hattons though, for example, are VAT registered in some EU countries, so in theory, once they actually declare that the VAT has been paid and don't forget to put a sticker on it (LOL @murphaph), it should arrrive while you're making your tea, no problem.

Although, who the Hell drinks tea nowadays?

 

[murphaph]

The EU changes to vat on parcels from outside the union were delayed until mid 2021 because if Brexit. The UK decided to go ahead with these changes in January already as originally planned when a member state but these changes currently only affect those in the UK, not anyone in Ireland (unless selling into the UK below £150 in value)

The negative effects we are currently experiencing on postal deliveries to Ireland are purely down to the UK leaving the single market and customs union in January.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by murphaph

[Georgeconna]

6 hours ago, NIR said:

Why the hell would anyone do that. Two lots of VAT are inevitable if you get something delivered in the UK and then get it redelivered to Ireland. It's nuts.

Addresspal and the like were just dodges to make a piddling few quid on delivery charges. There was never a real business case for it.

Some Sellers on Amazon won't post to Ireland and have never done, It was not about saving a few pennies on delivery, It was a case if you needed some stuff on the UK then the Proxy address was useful and needed.

[NIR]

53 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The negative effects we are currently experiencing on postal deliveries to Ireland are purely down to the UK leaving the single market and customs union in January.

Take it up with the Revenue Commissioners and your MEP.

[BosKonay]

Straying dangerously into political talk NIR. The fact is there is nothing to bring up with revenue or Europe. 
if you are outside the UK buying from the UK is now treated the same as from any non EU country. So you import anything from the UK to your home location. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

Of  course it's to do with BrExit.

The whole goal of BrExit was to limit freedom of movement of people, goods and services, in other words, to "take back control".

The double taxation will happen if the seller does not properly declare that tax has already been paid, OR if you use a third party mail forwarding service like AddressPal.

In using a third-party service like that, you are doing as @NIR says, and having a product delivered to the UK, then subsequently exported to Ireland, almost like it's being sold a second time.

There is no friction at all when in one EU country and buying from another EU country - you pay whatever tax is due when you buy, and that's it, it's delivered to your door.

It's when you buy from or sell to a third country, be it China, the UK, the US or wherever, that the extra paperwork and the friction comes into play.

Hattons though, for example, are VAT registered in some EU countries, so in theory, once they actually declare that the VAT has been paid and don't forget to put a sticker on it (LOL @murphaph), it should arrrive while you're making your tea, no problem.

Although, who the Hell drinks tea nowadays?

 

Well, the idea that it IS to do with Brexit is exactly what I would have thought; it was suggested elsewhere that it wasn't, so i was simply wondering if it isn't to do with that, then what IS it to do with!

Personally, I can get around it by having UK-origin stuff delivered to a relative in Liverpool, or a relative in Wales, and they can bring it when they're coming. Ferry prices to and from Wales, incidentally, are horrific, and you can't fly to Cardiff without changing flights in Singapore, Johannesburg or San Diego.....

Thanks for clarifying; I will continue to trawl mainland European websites.........

 

1 minute ago, BosKonay said:

Straying dangerously into political talk NIR. The fact is there is nothing to bring up with revenue or Europe. 
if you are outside the UK buying from the UK is now treated the same as from any non EU country. So you import anything from the UK to your home location. 

That would always have been my understanding.

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Although, who the Hell drinks tea nowadays?

ME! I'm off to get a refill now.............

[jhb171achill]

So, overall, I wonder if there will emerge a reasonably general rule of thumb regarding all of this, along the lines of a fairly accurate assumption that for every £50 we pay in Britain, we should add X%? Or does it vary so much for obscure reasons, that no two cases are comparable in that manner?

And, as the old exam papers used to ask, "what is the value of X?".......
 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

So, overall, I wonder if there will emerge a reasonably general rule of thumb regarding all of this, along the lines of a fairly accurate assumption that for every £50 we pay in Britain, we should add X%? Or does it vary so much for obscure reasons, that no two cases are comparable in that manner?

And, as the old exam papers used to ask, "what is the value of X?".......
 

I'd say that we need to give things time to settle. BrExit is new, we don't know where we're going with it, we don't know if there'll be any political spats between the UK and European countries in the future to make things worse, or will they both sit down at a table and agree that it's ridiculous dividing rather than uniting, and agree on some common tax and import / export policies which make things better.

What is that phrase, hope for the best and prepare for the worst?

With that in mind, assume that you'll pay 20% or so on top of everything you spend in Britain, and if you don't pay it, or can reclaim it, it's a bonus.

[murphaph]

My comment about the impact of Brexit on postal deliveries was intended to be purely factual, not to convey an opinion about it either way. I do have my own feelings about it but this is the only forum I contribute to where the matter hasn't become highly divisive and I am glad about that and I'd like it to stay that way

It's impossible not to discuss the practicalities of it however as we are all used to ordering stuff from all over. I have a parcel waiting for my down the (German) post office with vat to pay and I have a bad feeling it's from Hattons. I know about another guy in Germany that got stung for vat by the customs even though Hattons are supposed to be vat registered here and delivering duty paid. 

I expect Hattons will refund me the double vat as they did him but it's needless hassle (in his case they forgot the "delivered duty paid" sticker they said)

 

[murphaph]

Hattons are the only UK shop I order off and for one reason: their trunk service. Saves a fortune on postage costs.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Hattons are the only UK shop I order off and for one reason: their trunk service. Saves a fortune on postage costs.

 

Only a matter of time and I'm sure IRM will offer us a Trunk service. That will make hattons largely obsolete, except for the odd second-hand Lima coach.

[Noel]

Hattons have excellent and rapid service with very low postage costs to ROI. Just today I placed another order with Hattons a) because they had the items I was looking for in stock and I was not able to order the items from my usual Irish online retailer who was out of stock, and b) good prices. Hattons are ultra reliable and pack products properly for transit (ie by not just chuckling a model item  in a box and then throw a pile of padding or bubble wrap over it leaving the inner model box in direct contact with the outside wall of the packaging box making it more vulnerable to shock treatment).

I wish Marks would upgrade their eCommerce suite, its pretty awful functionally, no login, no saved baskets, no wish lists, limited searching. I order from Marks as much as possible when they have items in stock.

PS and apparently they are VAT registered in Ireland so use DDP (delivery duties paid).

Edited February 27, 2021 by Noel

[DJ Dangerous]

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

Hattons have excellent and rapid service with very low postage costs to ROI. Just today I placed another order with Hattons a) because they had the items I was looking for in stock and I was not able to order the items from my usual Irish online retailer who was out of stock, and b) good prices. Hattons are ultra reliable and pack products properly for transit (ie by not just chuckling a model item  in a box and then throw a pile of padding or bubble wrap over it leaving the inner model box in direct contact with the outside wall of the packaging box making it more vulnerable to shock treatment).

I wish Marks would upgrade their eCommerce suite, its pretty awful functionally, no login, no saved baskets, no wish lists, limited searching. I order from Marks as much as possible when they have items in stock.

Actually, Hattons have gone to shit lately. Their packaging is a joke, both the exterior and interior, they are falling down on paperwork and they don't know what they are doing regarding shipping.

This is an ideal opportunity for somebody to take their mantle.

The only thing going for them at the moment is excellent customer service.

Agreed on the Marks website. It looks like something that a scammer would have built twenty years ago, and it's very diffiicult to spend money with them as a result.

Hats off to IRM. Their store is the business, their prices are perfect, their shipping rates are too good to be true, their range, both home-grown and bought in is ever expanding, and their customer service is flawless.

BrExit, whether one is in favour of it, against it or on the fence, is offering an opportunity in the face of crisis for Irish retailers to expand their online presence massively. I believe the Japanese call it a crisitunity, but don't quote me, quote Homer Simpson.

[Ironroad]

7 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I'd say that we need to give things time to settle. BrExit is new, we don't know where we're going with it, we don't know if there'll be any political spats between the UK and European countries in the future to make things worse, or will they both sit down at a table and agree that it's ridiculous dividing rather than uniting, and agree on some common tax and import / export policies which make things better.

 

The fact is the UK decided to leave the EU. And in fairness to the rest of the member countries there is no way the EU can grant concessions to the UK that only come with membership. The UK cannot have it both ways. So it is what it is, something very divisive and all of us need to come to terms with that. 

[Ironroad]

6 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Actually, Hattons have gone to shit lately.

I agree and say this with a heavy heart as a customer of theirs for over 40 years. I have no complaint about packaging but they arbitrarily cancelled one of my pre orders for a 121 while another one is still recorded as being on pre order and still pending delivery and they insist that is the case despite the fact this version has long since been released to the trade by MM.

[irishthump]

22 hours ago, NIR said:

Why the hell would anyone do that. Two lots of VAT are inevitable if you get something delivered in the UK and then get it redelivered to Ireland. It's nuts.

Addresspal and the like were just dodges to make a piddling few quid on delivery charges. There was never a real business case for it.

Sorry but you’re dead wrong there. As was already said it was about being able to order item(S) that couldn’t be shipped any other way.

Parcel Motel and Addresspal were a godsend for me. The vast majority of UK based EBay sellers wouldn’t post to Ireland at all and the ones who did charged ridiculous money. They nearly all offered free shipping within the uk so all I paid was the charge from Parcel Motel or An Post. It’s all finished now. 

I’ve recently invested a lot of time and effort into seeking out suppliers within the EU and now that I’m sorted I won’t be ordering from a UK based company ever again. They’re loss. 

[DJ Dangerous]

3 minutes ago, irishthump said:

Sorry but you’re dead wrong there. As was already said it was about being able to order item(S) that couldn’t be shipped any other way.

Parcel Motel and Addresspal were a godsend for me. The vast majority of UK based EBay sellers wouldn’t post to Ireland at all and the ones who did charged ridiculous money. They nearly all offered free shipping within the uk so all I paid was the charge from Parcel Motel or An Post. It’s all finished now. 

I’ve recently invested a lot of time and effort into seeking out suppliers within the EU and now that I’m sorted I won’t be ordering from a UK based company ever again. They’re loss. 

Not disagreeing at all, but I think that there's already a thread somewhere on the forwarders.

I'm sure that NIR was speaking strictly from the taxation side of things rather than the incredible utility of these services.

Such a shame that they're now redundant - lots of UK sellers, selling Irish stuff, and won't ship to Ireland. I'm not sure whether that's tragic or comic.

[irishthump]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Not disagreeing at all, but I think that there's already a thread somewhere on the forwarders.

I'm sure that NIR was speaking strictly from the taxation side of things rather than the incredible utility of these services.

Such a shame that they're now redundant - lots of UK sellers, selling Irish stuff, and won't ship to Ireland. I'm not sure whether that's tragic or comic.

Well I’ll happily laugh at their predicament!

Sorry for being political, but the amount of business owners who voted for Brexit is mind boggling. I have zero sympathy for them. 

You got what you wanted folks. How does it taste?

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, irishthump said:

Well I’ll happily laugh at their predicament!

Sorry for being political, but the amount of business owners who voted for Brexit is mind boggling. I have zero sympathy for them. 

You got what you wanted folks. How does it taste?

Tastes like monkfish, duh.

[irishthump]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Tastes like monkfish, duh.

Don’t mention the fish!

[BosKonay]

At least 25~33% of Irish modelers are actually in the UK. That’s a lot to do with why some UK retailers stock Murphy models. 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, BosKonay said:

At least 25~33% of Irish modelers are actually in the UK. That’s a lot to do with why some UK retailers stock Murphy models. 

Wow!

I had guessed that maybe there were a handful of stragglers, but not that many.

What percentage are in Spain?

[irishthump]

6 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

At least 25~33% of Irish modelers are actually in the UK. That’s a lot to do with why some UK retailers stock Murphy models. 

They could see a lot of discounted stock coming their way!

[DJ Dangerous]

Just now, irishthump said:

They could see a lot of discounted stock coming their way!

Models or fish?

[irishthump]

5 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Models or fish?

Both!

[Georgeconna]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Well, the idea that it IS to do with Brexit is exactly what I would have thought; it was suggested elsewhere that it wasn't, so i was simply wondering if it isn't to do with that, then what IS it to do with!

Personally, I can get around it by having UK-origin stuff delivered to a relative in Liverpool, or a relative in Wales, and they can bring it when they're coming. Ferry prices to and from Wales, incidentally, are horrific, and you can't fly to Cardiff without changing flights in Singapore, Johannesburg or San Diego.....

Thanks for clarifying; I will continue to trawl mainland European websites.........

 

That would always have been my understanding.

ME! I'm off to get a refill now.............

There a Goods Value Ceiling of goods you can bring in now from the UK so just be aware of that if they do get checked they could end up forking up a few bob to Revenue.

[jhb171achill]

56 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

There a Goods Value Ceiling of goods you can bring in now from the UK so just be aware of that if they do get checked they could end up forking up a few bob to Revenue.

I would get it delivered to a relative, who would then bring it over in the car when visiting.....

[murphaph]

It would be nice if folks could post any alternative EU sources for materials etc.

For example I bought stuff (finnboard, plastikard) from https://www.architekturbedarf.de/versand

They list Ireland lower down. Shipping is a flat €30 though so I'm guessing you'd want a nice big order to make it viable.

[jhb171achill]

21 hours ago, NIR said:

It's something coincident with Brexit. If European governments had not already decided to introduce a new customs regime in 2020 then the effect of Brexit would have been less.

So, Brexit!

 

[Broithe]

36 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

So, Brexit!

 

I've not been paying a great deal of attention.

What is this Brexit thing?

Is there a vaccine for it yet?

[jhb171achill]

6 minutes ago, Broithe said:

I've not been paying a great deal of attention.

What is this Brexit thing?

Is there a vaccine for it yet?

Yes, but ye daren’t mention it!

[DJ Dangerous]

5 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

There a Goods Value Ceiling of goods you can bring in now from the UK so just be aware of that if they do get checked they could end up forking up a few bob to Revenue.

What is the limit, and how is it controlled?

Is there one limit for all non-EU countries combined, or a limit for each one individually?

As in, is the limit X from China, Y from the US, Z from the UK, or a limit on the total of X, Y and Z?

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, but ye daren’t mention it!

Liar!

Vaccines are a preventative measure. That horse has long bolted.

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

What is the limit, and how is it controlled?

Is there one limit for all non-EU countries combined, or a limit for each one individually?

As in, is the limit X from China, Y from the US, Z from the UK, or a limit on the total of X, Y and Z?

Liar!

Vaccines are a preventative measure. That horse has long bolted.

There WAS no horse! That’s a conspiracy theory!