Oil fired steam engines

[Wexford70]

Were there any attempts to use oil / diesel to fire steam engines at any stage?

Would oil be much less efficient than coal to operate an engine?

[Garfield]

The Great Southern Railway converted quite a few locomotives to burn oil during 'The Emergency', but they were converted back to coal afterwards. You can identify these locomotives in photographs as they had rectangular oil tanks fitted onto the tenders and a white/pale yellow circle on the side of the tender to identify them as oil-burners.

Here's a public domain pic (via Wikipedia) of a K4 converted to burn oil:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS%26WR_Class_368#/media/File:CIE_no._360_(32520107288).jpg

 

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, Garfield said:

The Great Southern Railway converted quite a few locomotives to burn oil during 'The Emergency', but they were converted back to coal afterwards. You can identify these locomotives in photographs as they had rectangular oil tanks fitted onto the tenders and a white/pale yellow circle on the side of the tender to identify them as oil-burners.

Here's a public domain pic (via Wikipedia) of a K4 converted to burn oil:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS%26WR_Class_368#/media/File:CIE_no._360_(32520107288).jpg

 

Was there also a 'disc' on the smokebox door, albeit a bit more liable to getting dirty?

[jhb171achill]

The tender sides and smokebox doors had large white circles painted on them.

No tank engines were treated thus as far as I am aware.

Edited January 28, 2021 by jhb171achill

[Edo]

From Conrad Natzio's Irish Steam in the 1960s.....

He mentions that j15 No197 had been subject to a further oil burner trial as late as 1954....most of the others had been during the "emergency "...but converted back to coal afterwards.....

Below is no197 back burning coal in early 60s on a beet run to Palace East....

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

The tender sides and smokebox doors had large white circles painted on them.

No tank engines were treated thus as far as I am aware.

The white circles were an indication to the signalman that it was a oil burner and wouldn't get stuck mid section bailing out a bad fire.

Non oil burners burnt any sort of barely combustible rubbish that was to hand at the time, slack, briquettes, Inchicore experimental fuel, etc.

[minister_for_hardship]

6 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Were there any attempts to use oil / diesel to fire steam engines at any stage?

Would oil be much less efficient than coal to operate an engine?

It was quite common in countries and regions without a readily available coal supply.

[GSR 800]

As said during and after the Emergency, many locos were oil fired. 

5 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The white circles were an indication to the signalman that it was a oil burner and wouldn't get stuck mid section bailing out a bad fire.

Non oil burners burnt any sort of barely combustible rubbish that was to hand at the time, slack, briquettes, Inchicore experimental fuel, etc.

Aye, showed too, locomotives barely able to build up steam, breaking down, something going bust along the way. Maintainance nightmares. 

Were there some issues with oil firing though, otherwise would it not have been more widely implemented and for much longer? 

[airfixfan]

During the latter years of WW2 the Lough Swilly due to severe coal shortages used turf and even wood as they could not get coal for their steam locos.

[seagoebox]

CIE converted around 93 steam engines to burn oil, Athlone driver Val Horan wrote a good article in the IRRS Journal, Vol 15, no 96, February 1995, pages  337 to 351 and 383 to 385

[minister_for_hardship]

22 hours ago, GSR 800 said:

As said during and after the Emergency, many locos were oil fired. 

Aye, showed too, locomotives barely able to build up steam, breaking down, something going bust along the way. Maintainance nightmares. 

Were there some issues with oil firing though, otherwise would it not have been more widely implemented and for much longer? 

Shouldn't think so, the firebox needed to be altered slightly internally as oil tended to burn hotter than coal.

Coal importation simply resumed to pre war levels of quality after a while, that's probably about all. 

[Mayner]

The oil burning conversions was a short term measure by CIE to keep trains moving during the winter of 1947, when coal supplies from the UK failed as a result of severe weather conditions in the UK  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_1946–47_in_the_United_Kingdom.

The main issue with oil burning on CIE seems to be that oil firing with its rapid heating and cooling was severe on locomotive boilers and fireboxes and lead to maintenance problems and shortened boiler life on an already run down locomotive fleet.

Oil burning tended to be used to achieve higher power outputs than could be achieved with hand firing and in the post WWII era when it became increasingly difficult to recruit staff to carry out menial dirty tasks such as cleaning and disposal work on steam locomotives.

Despite ample coal supplies New Zealand Railways built both coal and oil fired versions of its Ka 4-8-4 and Ja 4-8-2 class locomotives for its heaviest main line duties.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZR_JA_class.

[David Holman]

Steam locos in the USA often burned oil, notably the Mallet 4-8-8-4 Big Boys. At over 560 tons, the fireman would not want to be shovelling coal on a beast like that!

[Mike 84C]

The Laidlaw-Drew burner is the same type used by the Festiniog Rly in its oil burning days, the burner was fixed vertically in the middle of the firebox with a machined saucer shape on the burner end which sprayed the oil out and a swirler caused the resulting fuel mist to rotate. The result was better fuel mixing with the combustion air coming through the pan plate which in effect replaced the ashpan. The firebox  mod's were refactory concrete in the pan plate and cast refactory concrete slabs to protect the firebox foundation ring and the bottom10/12" of the firebox.

  Be interesting to know how the burner was positioned in CIE loco's.

I thought some Big Boys also Challenger's were stoker fitted and burnt black diamonds!

If you come across a DVD Winter on JInpeng Pass, lots of double headed QJ 2-10-2's, there is a footplate sequence where the fireman is heaving coal into the firebox as well as the mech;stoker. it's a very good, well filmed dvd. I love to watch times gone by. 

[David Holman]

Seem to remember reading somewhere that as steam haulage faded around the world, it was not unknown for professional photographers to ask crews to chuck car tyres in the firebox to improve smoke effects.

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, David Holman said:

Seem to remember reading somewhere that as steam haulage faded around the world, it was not unknown for professional photographers to ask crews to chuck car tyres in the firebox to improve smoke effects.

Indeed - especially in Africa and Asia, and at the behest of a tiny minority of irresponsible British, American and German enthusiast tour leaders!

Some crews would accept a little “consideration” in cash, while others refused point blank!

[jhb171achill]

On 28/1/2021 at 4:49 PM, Broithe said:

Was there also a 'disc' on the smokebox door, albeit a bit more liable to getting dirty?

Yes, there was. Both got filthy within hours of going into traffic!