Turntables, Year 121s had to be turned

[Dave Dawes]

What was the standard size of turntables on the CIE network.want to put one on my new layout to turn the 121 class but they are so expensive except for the Peco one, but that's a 75' span.

Also when did it become law for the 121s to be turned ?

[StevieB]

Most would seem to be in the order of 40’-45’ diameter.

Stephen

[flange lubricator]

Yes 40'-45' seem to be the most common, with regard to the 121 class early in their careers one of them was operating bonnet first and was in collision with a PWD Trolley and this made the railway to change the rules regarding the 121-class operating bonnet first which was no longer permitted however on occasion this was done but there had to be a second man present.

Edited November 24, 2022 by flange lubricator

[Niles]

I believe this continued to happen on occasion at Rosslare even into the early 2000s if one turned up on the Limerick/Waterford-Rosslare. The ITG journal records a few occasions.

[flange lubricator]

The retention of turntables at a lot of places decades after the end of steam was down to the 121 class .

[Blaine]

 

[Broithe]

The remains remain at Ballybrophy.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9023258,-7.5977056,88m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Noel]

52 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Yes 40'-45' seem to be the most common, with regard to the 121 class early in their careers one of them was operating bonnet first and was in collision with a PWD Trolley and this made the railway to change the rules regarding the 121-class operating bonnet first which was no longer permitted however on occasion this was done but there had to be a second man present.

Strange as they had been operating steam locos boiler first safely (ie cab at rear), for 100 years successfully. Wonder if there was other reasons?

[flange lubricator]

56 minutes ago, Noel said:

Strange as they had been operating steam locos boiler first safely (ie cab at rear), for 100 years successfully. Wonder if there was other reasons?

Not strange at all steam locos had two crew members a driver and fireman, diesels had only one crew member a driver the 121 class could operate bonnet first but required a second man to be present, on a steam loco when the fireman was not firing, he would have been assisting the driver in sighting signals etc the same as the second man on a bonnet first 121 class would do.

Edited November 24, 2022 by flange lubricator

[ak425]

Up to early 1995, 121s did operate bonnet first. The 1135 Adelaide to North Wall liner was regularly worked by a single 121. After some shunting in Dundalk, the 121 would propel part of the liner past the junction to Barrack Street and then work bonnet first down the branch. Also a brake van was at opposite end for the two reverse workings. After more shunting of the wagons collected from Barrack Street, the brake van was left in Dundalk and the liner continued to North Wall.

[flange lubricator]

3 minutes ago, ak425 said:

Up to early 1995, 121s did operate bonnet first. The 1135 Adelaide to North Wall liner was regularly worked by a single 121. After some shunting in Dundalk, the 121 would propel part of the liner past the junction to Barrack Street and then work bonnet first down the branch. Also a brake van was at opposite end for the two reverse workings. After more shunting of the wagons collected from Barrack Street, the brake van was left in Dundalk and the liner continued to North Wall.

Yes they certainly did but they would have had a second man in the cab for the trip to Barrack Street.

[Niles]

7 minutes ago, ak425 said:

Up to early 1995, 121s did operate bonnet first. The 1135 Adelaide to North Wall liner was regularly worked by a single 121. After some shunting in Dundalk, the 121 would propel part of the liner past the junction to Barrack Street and then work bonnet first down the branch. Also a brake van was at opposite end for the two reverse workings. After more shunting of the wagons collected from Barrack Street, the brake van was left in Dundalk and the liner continued to North Wall.

How was the loco turned in Belfast (Or did it work up with a 141/181 and split?).

[Blaine]

1 minute ago, Niles said:

How was the loco turned in Belfast (Or did it work up with a 141/181 and split?).

Split - there was also a table in the old York Road depot - not sure if it worked mind, and the triangle for the 'cross harbour link' would have been around then - just!

[ak425]

1 hour ago, flange lubricator said:

Yes they certainly did but they would have had a second man in the cab for the trip to Barrack Street.

and the second man was hanging very precariously out the  cab door trying to see around the curve into Barrack Street

Edited November 24, 2022 by ak425

[airfixfan]

There was also a turntable at Central Serbice Depot in Belfast.

[ak425]

On 24/11/2022 at 11:34 AM, Blaine said:

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by ak425

[seagoebox]

From the GSR Green Appendix dated 1st March 1935

[jhb171achill]

I need a 45' one for my layout.

Could any of our 3D print wizards do an Irish standard 45ft one?

These massive 70ft things they have in GB, with little cabs on them and so forth, or ground level ones - for an Irish layout look as utterly ridiculous as a TGV in Amtrak livery, hauled by "Dick", on a model of the Sligo Leitrim in 1898. The "bought" turntables are both too big and too expensive.

[Blaine]

14 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I need a 45' one for my layout.

Could any of our 3D print wizards do an Irish standard 45ft one?

These massive 70ft things they have in GB, with little cabs on them and so forth, or ground level ones - for an Irish layout look as utterly ridiculous as a TGV in Amtrak livery, hauled by "Dick", on a model of the Sligo Leitrim in 1898. The "bought" turntables are both too big and too expensive.

Look for a Heljan one, they were shorter. As used on the MRSI Loughrea layout, suitably regauged to 21mm. 121's and J15's sit nicely on them

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Blaine said:

Look for a Heljan one, they were shorter. As used on the MRSI Loughrea layout, suitably regauged to 21mm. 121's and J15's sit nicely on them

Will do, thanks!

[Niles]

Curious that Waterford Manor and Tramore weren't of matching length, given I assume they were procured at the same time for the same locos?

[jhb171achill]

46 minutes ago, Niles said:

Curious that Waterford Manor and Tramore weren't of matching length, given I assume they were procured at the same time for the same locos?

One could have been second-hand, years later.

[Galteemore]

50 minutes ago, Niles said:

Curious that Waterford Manor and Tramore weren't of matching length, given I assume they were procured at the same time for the same locos?

I think the table also played a key part in the layout of the ‘workshops’ at Waterford (a set up which made Manorhamilton look like Swindon or Crewe) which might also explain the discrepancy. 

[David Holman]

The Dapol (old Airfix) kit is really cheap, but of course you need to work out how to get power to the track - and indeed to rotate it. Had one on Arigna Town, so might be worth looking up that thread. I think it works out at 60'.

 There are also useful articles online about how to make your own turntable. However, best option I have found is Kitwood Hobbies, who do a range of laser cut kits that are really well designed and also supply motoring kits. Belmullet has one.

[StevieB]

I think it’s Kitwood Hill Hobbies.

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, David Holman said:

The Dapol (old Airfix) kit is really cheap, but of course you need to work out how to get power to the track - and indeed to rotate it. Had one on Arigna Town, so might be worth looking up that thread. I think it works out at 60'.

 There are also useful articles online about how to make your own turntable. However, best option I have found is Kitwood Hobbies, who do a range of laser cut kits that are really well designed and also supply motoring kits. Belmullet has one.

Looked up their website - seems to be all 0 gauge / scale, though?

[Galteemore]

Some of it’s S scale. Worth approaching him with dimensions you need and seeing if anything in his range is ballpark. Think he batch builds. 

[Tractionman]

https://www.kitwoodhillmodels.com/on30-9-pit-turntable/

0n30 will work with 00 gauge track?

all the best,

 

Keith 

[David Holman]

're both the above, he does indeed batch build, so not all stuff is readily available.

 As for scale, yes there are mostly 7mm scale kits, but these include 0n30 designs. Thus far, not sure any of my turntables have been built to the scale intended. Arigna Town first had the Dapol/Airfix one, then used the South East Finecast version (worth a look), both of which are 00. Belmullet's is the Kitwood Hill 0n16.5, while Fintonagh's is Peco N gauge - two changes of scale.

 In each case, I made a new deck and sometimes added new sides. Ultimately, a turntable is about the operating bits, which are the centre 'boss', the circular track, the pit and the deck. Indeed, on full size TTs, the loco sits just off centre, so only one set of guide wheels is on the circular rail in the pit, whereas on most model ones the boss takes the strain and why stereo jackplug and sockets are often used on home made versions - they can carry power to the track.

 All in all, not surprising ready to run TTs are expensive, especially if you want to feed an array of tracks, but with a bit of thought and care, cheaper options can be made to work well and the hand cranked Frizinghall Models kit is the one I'd recommend for simple, reliable operation.

[Mallow Junction]

Interesting one this is. The turntable is the only remaining bit of kit in Mallow BFS aside from maybe a 20 foot section of track.