New Announcement - Hosanna Is A H Van

[Mol_PMB]

On 13/1/2025 at 6:34 PM, Patrick Davey said:

Seems like there is a significant arrival due at IRM Towers on January 15th.........

Since the H vans will be winging their way to us soon, let me share this photo which is also a new arrival on the IRRS Flickr archive and dates from March 1964, at Inchicore. 
In the foreground is @jhb171achill’s nemesis, with a brush of black paint in his hand!

This H van 18981 may be one of the first wagons to receive a tan roundel, as the logo had only been introduced couple of months previously. It’s in an odd place low down on the side of the van, and of course there’s that black underframe…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181

The vehicle behind, also available from IRM is an LB flat, I think 23379, with snail logo and looking pretty clean and freshly painted in a slightly darker shade of grey than the H van.

The flat wagon is carrying some sort of swapbody or Lancashire Flat painted bright red. This must be shorter than the later types as the wagon is only 16’11” long. It would be interesting to find more photos of these.

Meanwhile, Limerick was painting smaller white roundels on wagons in 1964, and had got JHB’s memo about the underframe colour!

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307038

Edited January 18 by Mol_PMB
reinstated missing link

[leslie10646]

Hi guys

When are you going to send out the H vans, grain wagons which I paid for ten days or so ago?

Thanks

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

On 17/1/2025 at 9:34 PM, Mol_PMB said:

Since the H vans will be winging their way to us soon, let me share this photo which is also a new arrival on the IRRS Flickr archive and dates from March 1964, at Inchicore. 
In the foreground is @jhb171achill’s nemesis, with a brush of black paint in his hand!

This H van 18981 may be one of the first wagons to receive a tan roundel, as the logo had only been introduced couple of months previously. It’s in an odd place low down on the side of the van, and of course there’s that black underframe…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181

The vehicle behind, also available from IRM is an LB flat, I think 23379, with snail logo and looking pretty clean and freshly painted in a slightly darker shade of grey than the H van.

The flat wagon is carrying some sort of swapbody or Lancashire Flat painted bright red. This must be shorter than the later types as the wagon is only 16’11” long. It would be interesting to find more photos of these.

Meanwhile, Limerick was painting smaller white roundels on wagons in 1964, and had got JHB’s memo about the underframe colour!

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307038

That roundel was also somewhat larger than normal. The black chassis would have been a one-off, as this was an experimental livery. In the same way, the very first half doizen or so coaches to get black'n'tan had one-off differences, like numbers in different positions, and non-standard fonts.

In the early 1970s, I believe that consideration was given to painting goods wagons a sort of beige-y "desert sand" colour, instead of brown, like Dublin buses. But it was not proceeded with, and I am unaware even of an experimental paint job being done.

The CIE roundel with tan surround, as opposed to white, was as far as I am aware confined to new vans - namely "H"'s and "Palvans". All older vans, all open wagons, plus SOME "H"s, had all-white roundels. I never saw a palvan with a white roundel, but it's at least theoretically possible.

All logos on all brown-painted wagons were always white. Some got discoloured with age and brake dust, but all were white initially.

Very few wagons ever got the "set-of-points" logo after CIE became IE. The few that did tended to be departmental stock. Ordinary wagons - IF repainted - just had the numbers, no logo.

[Dempsey]

Coming late to the party on these but will there be stock available after pre orders are dispatched or is it completely sold out as per the website?

[Mol_PMB]

On 28/1/2025 at 11:10 PM, jhb171achill said:

The CIE roundel with tan surround, as opposed to white, was as far as I am aware confined to new vans - namely "H"'s and "Palvans". All older vans, all open wagons, plus SOME "H"s, had all-white roundels. I never saw a palvan with a white roundel, but it's at least theoretically possible.

I do wonder if the tan or white roundel was an Inchicore/Limerick thing?

Inchicore built the Palvans with tan roundels, and judging by photos of Inchicore in the 1960s which seem to feature vast numbers of H vans, they seem to have done most of the H van overhauls. Perhaps there was a 'production line' type overhaul process?

Limerick meanwhile seems to have been more focused on overhauling the older wagons, and especially those with wooden underframes, as shown in these NLI images from 1962 (interior shots) and 1964 (lineup of wagons newly painted with white roundels):

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306905

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306904

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307038

In the last photo all the visible wagons have white roundels, and all except one have wooden underframes. The one steel underframe wagon looks like an H van, but a closer inspection shows that it's a bulk grain van (catwalk on roof, extra gubbins on underframe).

 

Other freight items to receive the tan roundel as standard were the swapbodies for Guinness:

 

 

As ever, there were oddballs and exceptions. Here's a 20t brake van with tan roundel:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

And a GNR cement van with a tan roundel (on the right):

On the left here are a pair of H vans with white roundels (67C 42909 photo on Flickr):

 

And then there are some H vans which don't seem to have any logo at all, as in this photo from Ernie:

And that begs the question - what logo was put on wagons in the 1962/1963 era? Remember at this time, the roundel hadn't been invented yet, while locos and carriages were being outshopped in black'n'tan with no logo at all. Containers were being built with 'C.I.E.' in block letters rather than any logo. Did they keep putting snails on wagons, or just omit the logo entirely?

[minister_for_hardship]

C.I.E. in block caps was a placeholder "logo" until the broken wheel, but survived for a time on road transport containers and vehicles, uniform cap badges and some publicity material.

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

And that begs the question - what logo was put on wagons in the 1962/1963 era? Remember at this time, the roundel hadn't been invented yet, while locos and carriages were being outshopped in black'n'tan with no logo at all. Containers were being built with 'C.I.E.' in block letters rather than any logo. Did they keep putting snails on wagons, or just omit the logo entirely?

The livery changed before the logo did, which is why you’ll see read and cream or navy and cream buses with snails. 

So they went on applying snails to everything until about very late 63 / early 64, when the roundels took over with immediate effect.

It was almost never you’d see anything without either - those vans above apparently with no logo could possibly have a very badly faded, barely discernible snail…

[meathdane]

Just got my order of H and bulk Grains, they look great! Can't wait to run them! 

Thanks lads! 

[Niles]

Post received today.

Even on a modern era layout an old brown H van hiding down a siding isn't necessarily out of the place.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Certainly into the Irish Rail era…

When I found and uploaded this photo a couple of years ago it was with some from Mullingar and I captioned it as Mullingar, but I’m having second thoughts now. I think it might be Gort.

Anyway, a brown H van dumped in a siding in the early 1990s, note the IR and Irish Cement sign on the goods shed. 

 

 

[ttc0169]

4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Certainly into the Irish Rail era…

When I found and uploaded this photo a couple of years ago it was with some from Mullingar and I captioned it as Mullingar, but I’m having second thoughts now. I think it might be Gort.

Anyway, a brown H van dumped in a siding in the early 1990s, note the IR and Irish Cement sign on the goods shed. 

 

 

More like Gort Mol…

[Niles]

There was a brown 4 wheel van of some description in the Boston sidings near Grand Canal Dock into the early 2000s. Not sure if it was H or another type but I remember passing it, it had become one with the weeds.

[Mol_PMB]

7 hours ago, Niles said:

There was a brown 4 wheel van of some description in the Boston sidings near Grand Canal Dock into the early 2000s. Not sure if it was H or another type but I remember passing it, it had become one with the weeds.

If it was this one, it was once a Palvan:

[Niles]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

If it was this one, it was once a Palvan:

yep, that's the one!

[Fowler4f]

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Certainly into the Irish Rail era…

When I found and uploaded this photo a couple of years ago it was with some from Mullingar and I captioned it as Mullingar, but I’m having second thoughts now. I think it might be Gort.

Anyway, a brown H van dumped in a siding in the early 1990s, note the IR and Irish Cement sign on the goods shed. 

 

 

If the car reg is anything to go by, it’s should be Gort. 785 GIE is a Clare reg, so unlikely to be Mullingar.

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks!

Back on topic, almost, can anyone recommend the optimum Kadee coupler # to fit the H vans?

[Fowler4f]

Ideally a No.17, unless you have spacers to fit to a No.18 to take up the slack.

[GSR 800]

1 hour ago, Fowler4f said:

If the car reg is anything to go by, it’s should be Gort. 785 GIE is a Clare reg, so unlikely to be Mullingar.

It's definitely not Mullingar.

[Mol_PMB]

Some IRM wagons have now reappeared in the AS warehouse, including:

• H vans
• Grain vans
• 4-wheel flat wagons
• Esso oil tanks

Get them while they last.

[Dempsey]

Just picked up a few H's myself

[Warbonnet]

Hi folks,

Indeed, all the wagons are now back on sale and available here: https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irm-wagons

Remember, your VAT etc will be looked after and there will be no hidden nasty charges for Irish or indeed any European customers, so get buying with confidence!

Cheers!

Fran 

[MOGUL]

12 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Some IRM wagons have now reappeared in the AS warehouse, including:

• H vans
• Grain vans
• 4-wheel flat wagons
• Esso oil tanks

Get them while they last.

That was quick, the sandwich I made after listing that stock isn’t even finished in the toastie sandwich maker and already the orders are coming in

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

That was quick, the sandwich I made after listing that stock isn’t even finished in the toastie sandwich maker and already the orders are coming in

Selling like hot cakes toasties!

I'm pleased there are some of the grain hoppers left over. You didn't happen to find any more of the black oil tanks, did you?

[MOGUL]

21 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Selling like hot cakes toasties!

I'm pleased there are some of the grain hoppers left over. You didn't happen to find any more of the black oil tanks, did you?

Afraid not, those sold out long ago..

Although @Gabhal Luimnighwas selling a pack a few weeks back, not sure if he still has it

[ttc0169]

1 hour ago, MOGUL said:

That was quick, the sandwich I made after listing that stock isn’t even finished in the toastie sandwich maker and already the orders are coming in

Advice taken-and a pack of grain wagons ordered…..

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

Advice taken-and a pack of grain wagons ordered…..

Got mine today!

Quite simply, exquisite. Best yet, and when referring to IRM that takes some doing!

[Colin R]

Just ordered mine, just need to buy a brakevan or two.

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, Colin R said:

Just ordered mine, just need to buy a brakevan or two.

I do really hope that IRM will announce a 30t brake van!

John's 20t brakes are superb but no longer readily available, the floor is wide open for the 30t variant!

[Colin R]

Well, I have just had a count up and currently I have 36 wagons and four A class locos in RTR state. But I also have about a dozen kits to build one day for 21mm gauge.

That is without the IRM coaches yet to come, and those items of stock I would like to buy from Leslie.

I need to find some drawings for the Belfast and County Down steam locos, I would love to have a few of those about at sometime

[Colin R]

In my hurry to order these wagons, I guess I must have over-ordered the H vans as another 12 turned up today, that's OK as i think I have a fair number of wagons, but the next question is will the three grain van I have ordered be enough, I am hoping they will do a set two with different numbers also just how many grain vans would have been made up into one train at a time.

 

Colin

[Horsetan]

43 minutes ago, Colin R said:

In my hurry to order these wagons, I guess I must have over-ordered the H vans as another 12 turned up today...

Never mind quality; what we want now is quantity!!

[Colin R]

I feel we are doing great guns with all this later date stock (CIE period) but what of pre-CIE stock? I know I might be shooting myself in the foot, but from what (little) I know of the Irish railway system, was there ever a dominant company pre CIE that stamped its mark over the majority of the Irish Railway system?

Sure, we have the Great Southern Period, but did it add anything to the rolling stock totals?

I think it has been said before that if it was not for the UK market supporting this side of the business, then we wouldn't have anything to run. That said, the wallet groans when IRM announces yet another new model, but I guess you need to keep up with Jones's on this one.

Besides the cattle wagons from Leslie and the odd brake van, what else is there that we need to complete the typical Irish model layout stock wise?   

 

Colin R

PS I do get it that any new Irish stock also needs to try and break even on its development costs
   

Edited Saturday at 19:55 by Colin R

[jhb171achill]

12 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I feel we are doing great guns with all this later date stock (CIE period) but what of pre-CIE stock? I know I might be shooting myself in the foot, but from what (little) I know of the Irish railway system, was there ever a dominant company pre CIE that stamped its mark over the majority of the Irish Railway system?

Sure, we have the Great Southern Period, but did it add anything to the rolling stock totals?

I think it has been said before that if it was not for the UK market supporting this side of the business, then we wouldn't have anything to run. That said, the wallet groans when IRM announces yet another new model, but I guess you need to keep up with Jones's on this one.

Besides the cattle wagons from Leslie and the odd brake van, what else is there that we need to complete the typical Irish model layout stock wise?   

 

Colin R

PS I do get it that any new Irish stock also needs to try and break even on its development costs
   

Goods vans and cattle trucks made up the vast, overwhelming majority of goods stock on all lines on this island. there were no massive opencast coal mines to have hourly merry-go-round trains leaving from, no huge iron ore mines, no huge petroleum transport by rail, not even the milk tankers of Devon stuck onto avery goods train.

So goods vans and more. Leslie offered two variants of GNR goods vans, but these were more than similar to some GSWR and MGWR types. Like carriages and wagons, repainted British types just don't begin to cut it, especially with the dreaded grey or white roofs and black underframes.

With the "H" vans now established, both by IRM and Provincial, and cattle trucks from the latter too, those two types re well covered. Once the CIE "H"s were being churned out of Inchicore, pre-CIE types disappeared rapidly. I've seen a picture of a MGWR cattle van somewhere in the early 60s, but these by then would have been very rare indeed.

If there's one thing missing currently, it's the "soft-top" (convertible van), which looked like any other goods van except that it had a central part of the roof open and covered with a tarpaulin. With the tarp on, it was a goods van. With it off (for ventilation) it could be used for cattle.

As for open wagons, they are the one thing where many British prototypes CAN be used. The British ones and our ones (main companies; not all!) were all standard types of designs. The West Cork system were non-standard (as with most things!), but above all the BCDR and NCC wagons were very different indeed, and require scratchbuilding. DSER ones were their own design too. But for CIE, a repainted LMS four wheeled open will suffice as a MGWR, GSWR, GNR GSR or early CIE design.

As for majority, the GSWR was of course the largest constituent company in the GSR and later CIE, therefore vehicles from that stable - be they coaches, wagons or locos - were more numerous than others. I saw a GSWR open in North Wall in the 1970s, by then with a CIE roundel on it.

[leslie10646]

Just a minor correction, Oh Exulted Jonathan.

I produced THREE different GNR vans as kits (10 ton fitted and unfitted and the 9 ton which is noticeably smaller.

My RTR Dapols are very close to the GNR Bagged Cement vans of 1953 / 4. I've done those in two GNR runs, plus the Snail version and the more recent "Brown" and "Wheel" versions - and another GNR number to come in April ......

You're dead right about the "Convertible" bands, but not so many of us model early enough? Surely they were history my mid-1950s?

@Mol_PMB take a look at my lovely GSWR 10 ton brake - still around iun 1960s.

[GSR 800]

On 8/3/2025 at 8:16 PM, jhb171achill said:

Goods vans and cattle trucks made up the vast, overwhelming majority of goods stock on all lines on this island. there were no massive opencast coal mines to have hourly merry-go-round trains leaving from, no huge iron ore mines, no huge petroleum transport by rail, not even the milk tankers of Devon stuck onto avery goods train.

So goods vans and more. Leslie offered two variants of GNR goods vans, but these were more than similar to some GSWR and MGWR types. Like carriages and wagons, repainted British types just don't begin to cut it, especially with the dreaded grey or white roofs and black underframes.

With the "H" vans now established, both by IRM and Provincial, and cattle trucks from the latter too, those two types re well covered. Once the CIE "H"s were being churned out of Inchicore, pre-CIE types disappeared rapidly. I've seen a picture of a MGWR cattle van somewhere in the early 60s, but these by then would have been very rare indeed.

If there's one thing missing currently, it's the "soft-top" (convertible van), which looked like any other goods van except that it had a central part of the roof open and covered with a tarpaulin. With the tarp on, it was a goods van. With it off (for ventilation) it could be used for cattle.

As for open wagons, they are the one thing where many British prototypes CAN be used. The British ones and our ones (main companies; not all!) were all standard types of designs. The West Cork system were non-standard (as with most things!), but above all the BCDR and NCC wagons were very different indeed, and require scratchbuilding. DSER ones were their own design too. But for CIE, a repainted LMS four wheeled open will suffice as a MGWR, GSWR, GNR GSR or early CIE design.

As for majority, the GSWR was of course the largest constituent company in the GSR and later CIE, therefore vehicles from that stable - be they coaches, wagons or locos - were more numerous than others. I saw a GSWR open in North Wall in the 1970s, by then with a CIE roundel on it.

Interestingly, Rapido has just released its LMS 5 plank wagon. Perhaps IRM could get on the bandwagon with Rapido and make some CIE versions?