New member saying Hello

[Mol_PMB]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but not new to modelling. My real name is Paul but online I'm Mol_PMB which is based on my nickname and initials. Some of you may recognise me from the RMWeb forum.

As a child in the late 1970s and the 1980s, we had a family holiday in Ireland every year. Normally about 10 days near Ennis (always at the same farmhouse B&B) plus a few days somewhere else, which was different each year. I was strongly into railways and modelling, and my first Irish models were a Lima 33 and a Mk1 coach in CIE livery, no doubt bought on one of our holidays.

We used to visit the railway station at Ennis regularly on our holidays, although it was closed to passengers there was occasionally a freight train to be seen, and of course the West Clare 0-6-2T was plinthed there too. I think it was in 1987 when we found a poster advertising an excursion to Dublin by train, which would be happening a few days later. I was about 11 at the time and had just got my first camera. I begged and pleaded with my parents for us to go on it! Eventually they agreed. Our loco for the last leg from Limerick was A class 007. I had marked the rare occasion of a train ride in Ireland by wearing a jumper knitted by my mum, featuring a CIE train. Here I am with the real thing after arrival back at Ennis. Embarrassing now...

I started more serious Irish modelling about this time, and got about half-way through building a model of Fenit in 4mm scale, EM gauge. Rolling stock included Q-kits locos, MTK carriages and MIR wagons, plus various kitbashed/converted items. But to be honest my modelling skills in my early teens weren't good enough, and the project foundered. I no longer have any of those models.

My next attempt in my later teens was a model of Ballygawley on the Clogher Valley Railway, 4mm scale, 12mm gauge. My skills were improving and I think I still have some of the rolling stock including lots of wagons scratchbuilt on etched chassis, and a part-completed scratchbuild of the 2-6-2T. Life got in the way of this - a year out and then university, and my interests changed.

Once I'd settled into employment, I decided to move up to O gauge. I mostly modelled British prototypes in 7mm scale, but I did try making a few Irish wagons and a coach in 6mm scale on 32mm gauge track. They were nice but I soon realised it was a dead end, and that was the last Irish modelling I did, about 20 years ago. I still have my 3 shelves of Irish railway books and retain an interest in the prototype; last year I visited the last of the Bord na Mona railways for a week:

My major project at present is Swiss narrow gauge in 1:45, 22.2mm gauge track, but I also have a small O gauge layout based on the Manchester Ship Canal railways that were local to me.

So why am I here, trawling the forum for information and inspiration?

Well I blame Accurascale / Irish Railway Models! They've just announced those lovely NIR Hunslets, which have long been a favourite of mine. And then I discovered there are CIE Park Royal coaches on the way, which I have so many childhood memories of around Limerick. I have several friends with OO or HO scale layouts and I quite fancy putting together one or two Irish trains to run on them. But I'm also mulling over the possibility of a small shunting layout in 21mm gauge. Hmmm...

 

 

[Noel]

Welcome.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but not new to modelling. My real name is Paul but online I'm Mol_PMB which is based on my nickname and initials. Some of you may recognise me from the RMWeb forum.

As a child in the late 1970s and the 1980s, we had a family holiday in Ireland every year. Normally about 10 days near Ennis (always at the same farmhouse B&B) plus a few days somewhere else, which was different each year. I was strongly into railways and modelling, and my first Irish models were a Lima 33 and a Mk1 coach in CIE livery, no doubt bought on one of our holidays.

We used to visit the railway station at Ennis regularly on our holidays, although it was closed to passengers there was occasionally a freight train to be seen, and of course the West Clare 0-6-2T was plinthed there too. I think it was in 1987 when we found a poster advertising an excursion to Dublin by train, which would be happening a few days later. I was about 11 at the time and had just got my first camera. I begged and pleaded with my parents for us to go on it! Eventually they agreed. Our loco for the last leg from Limerick was A class 007. I had marked the rare occasion of a train ride in Ireland by wearing a jumper knitted by my mum, featuring a CIE train. Here I am with the real thing after arrival back at Ennis. Embarrassing now...

I started more serious Irish modelling about this time, and got about half-way through building a model of Fenit in 4mm scale, EM gauge. Rolling stock included Q-kits locos, MTK carriages and MIR wagons, plus various kitbashed/converted items. But to be honest my modelling skills in my early teens weren't good enough, and the project foundered. I no longer have any of those models.

My next attempt in my later teens was a model of Ballygawley on the Clogher Valley Railway, 4mm scale, 12mm gauge. My skills were improving and I think I still have some of the rolling stock including lots of wagons scratchbuilt on etched chassis, and a part-completed scratchbuild of the 2-6-2T. Life got in the way of this - a year out and then university, and my interests changed.

Once I'd settled into employment, I decided to move up to O gauge. I mostly modelled British prototypes in 7mm scale, but I did try making a few Irish wagons and a coach in 6mm scale on 32mm gauge track. They were nice but I soon realised it was a dead end, and that was the last Irish modelling I did, about 20 years ago. I still have my 3 shelves of Irish railway books and retain an interest in the prototype; last year I visited the last of the Bord na Mona railways for a week:

 

That is a STUNNING picture. All too often there's little to be seen in BnM photos than turf and tin sheds!

[derek]

Welcome to the forum Paul. Looking snazzy there in front of 007. The Hunslets really do seem to have created a spark on here. Where in Limerick did you live? Asking as another Treaty  County man.

[Mol_PMB]

31 minutes ago, derek said:

Welcome to the forum Paul. Looking snazzy there in front of 007. The Hunslets really do seem to have created a spark on here. Where in Limerick did you live? Asking as another Treaty  County man.

Hi Derek,

I've never actually lived in Ireland but visited for 2 weeks every year on family holidays from the mid 1970s to late 1990s. We always stayed at 'Trinaderry' farm which was in the hamlet of Barefield near Ennis. So Limerick was our nearest city and (at the time) nearest railway station with passenger trains. Ennis just had freight for most of the 1980s, I think there was a twice-weekly passenger train from 1989?

Fertiliser train at Ennis; container traffic was still busy here too.

And this was Limerick back in the day, tons of freight, baby GMs and Park Royals on the locals, sometimes Cravens:

I became quite familiar with Limerick, and on later visits to Ireland with railway enthusiast friends we usually stayed in the Railway Hotel (which I believe has now closed). In the early 2000s it was handy for an early breakfast before getting some 141 haulage on the 0705 Ballybrophy train, or the 0725 to the Junction.

 

 

[Mike 84C]

Hey!, Mol welcome to the forum I'm sure you will enjoy it here. And as Whizz said to me "thats a curve ball" !!  

[Mol_PMB]

Hey Mick, it’s a small world, good to see you on here too. 

As you can see, Irish isn’t a new interest for me, it’s just one that has been in the background for a couple of decades. I also enjoy working out the history of the prototypes. 

I hadn’t realised how far the 4mm Irish scene had moved forward in recent years, the IRM stuff is stunning but the wider array of smaller suppliers is also great. 

One challenge for me is the IRM approach of single batches and ‘buy it now or you’ll never see it again’. Hopefully I will find a secondhand A class eventually, and maybe a few wagon types I missed.

I’ll see if I can dig out a few of my old Irish models or photos of them.

Mol

 

[Flying Snail]

Welcome @Mol_PMB. IRM have done re-runs of some of their popular lines, so never say never again to the prospect of getting your hands on 007!

... any reruns of the A class will likely be different running numbers though

[Colin_McLeod]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Bob229]

Welcome Paul, fine photo with 007 below is the excellent 007 IRM A Class at times they are up for resale, you get lots of help and advice on the forum

[NIRCLASS80]

Welcome aboard

[murphaph]

Welcome Paul. Nothing embarrassing about that jumper. It's a great memory to have. I'm sure many of us wish we had more pictures of our childhood adventures. I reckon you'll pick up 007 in model form at some stage. They do come up as lads decide they are focusing on a particular era and let their other stuff go.

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I've done the easy bit and spent some money! So I now have 3 new toys:

A Bachmann/Murphy 190 in Supertrain livery (first batch of models) and a Cravens (also first batch) came from eBay. @Fowler4f was very kind to offer me one of his A class at a good price, and it's my first choice of 007

With a couple of IRM Park Royals on order, I'll be nearly there for rekindling the childhood memories of passenger trains around Limerick and Ennis. Though of course I'll have to make a Dutch van to go with them.

 

Now, what next?

• 007 needs a bit of work to replace the IR logos with broken wheels (I have also got some Railtec transfers for this), and to try and replicate the distinctive A class weathering patterns.
• 190 is already 'factory weathered' but it's not very convincing so that needs some attention. I might have been better off buying an unweathered one, but the choices were limited and this one was fairly cheap. I'd quite like to renumber it too, although I haven't yet found any suitable number transfers. I may also look at modifying the front end and coupler pocket arrangements - I think I saw a thread on that somewhere.

For those with experience of renumbering IRM and Bachmann/Murphy locos, what's the best approach to use for removing the old number? IPA? T-cut? careful scraping?

But before I do that, I'm going to make a little test track / photo backdrop. My thoughts are a board around 24" x 8", with a length of dual-gauge track (16.5mm and 21mm) and some scenery. I haven't made a decision on track gauge yet, but this will allow me to try out some ideas and give me somewhere to check that my new toys work.

Cheers,

Mol

 

[Galteemore]

Fabulous. If you are modelling this era ie no steam, go 21mm gauge from the get go (steam locos are very tricky in the main to convert). It just adds that definite ‘Irish’ look even if you aren’t running anything - you can just enjoy looking at the track……

Edited November 7 by Galteemore

[Mol_PMB]

19 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Fabulous. If you are modelling this era ie no steam, go 21mm gauge from the get go (steam locos are very tricky in the main to convert). It just adds that definite ‘Irish’ look even if you aren’t running anything - you can just enjoy looking at the track……

Many thanks! Funny you should mention that, as I'm just planning the track and you may be able to help with a couple of dimensions.

My plan (for the trial piece of plain 3-rail track) is to use code 75 flat-bottom rail, spiked to sleeper bases laser-cut from ply (I have a small laser-cutter). I think I can also mark the spike holes in the sleeper bases too. I think that combination should reproduce the trackform in your photo quite effectively.

• How long should the sleepers be - 9' ?
• How wide were the sleepers (8"?) and what was their spacing? Were they closer at joints?
• Would rails have been 60' long, or 45'?

Cheers,

Mol

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

An hour or so in the workshop has produced a little board as the basis for my photo plank and test track:

The idea is a gently curved single track, with lower ground in front and higher ground behind, as if the line is skirting a low hill. I might start a new thread for this project, in the appropriate part of the forum, even though it's a rather small project.

[Galteemore]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Many thanks! Funny you should mention that, as I'm just planning the track and you may be able to help with a couple of dimensions.

My plan (for the trial piece of plain 3-rail track) is to use code 75 flat-bottom rail, spiked to sleeper bases laser-cut from ply (I have a small laser-cutter). I think I can also mark the spike holes in the sleeper bases too. I think that combination should reproduce the trackform in your photo quite effectively.

• How long should the sleepers be - 9' ?
• How wide were the sleepers (8"?) and what was their spacing? Were they closer at joints?
• Would rails have been 60' long, or 45'?

Cheers,

Mol

 

 

Sorry - can’t be much help really as the track modelled above is based on Sligo Leitrim practice - which was odd lengths of rail and as exiguous sleepering as possible! Standard UK sleeper depth and 9’ sounds right. Yes to closer spacing at joints. 

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Sorry - can’t be much help really as the track modelled above is based on Sligo Leitrim practice - which was odd lengths of rail and as exiguous sleepering as possible! Standard UK sleeper depth and 9’ sounds right. Yes to closer spacing at joints. 

Many thanks. For now I'm using 9'x10"x6" cross-section approximately, and it looks about right. The new thread on the photo plank is here:

 

[Mayner]

Hi Paul

Well done on finding 190, the MM 141/181 (1st batch anyway) are relatively simple to convert to 21mm gauge. 

Wooden sleepers supplied to Irish railways were reduced to 8'6" during WW1 same as England, Wales and Scotland

I converted one by using the existing wheels and replacing the existing axles and a pair by replacing the existing wheelsets with 21mm gauge wheel sets supplied by Ultrascale.

When using the existing Bachmann wheels with the B-B set at 19.5mm I found it necessary to reduce the thickness of the bogie sideframes to avoid the wheels fouling the sideframes, the Ultrascale wheel sets fit without modification.

21mm gauge 141 with Bachmann wheels top, Ultra scale wheels lower.

Ultrascale wheelset fitted with Bachmann worm and bearing brushes, 2mm top hat bearing as trust washer.

A 19.5mm B-B for 21mm gauge with OO/EM profile wheels was originally specified by Tim Cramer in a Railway Modeller article in June 72?,  some modellers use B-B of 19.3mm derived from EM Gauge standards, some modellers have adapted a B-B of 19mm for use with NMRA RP25-110 wheels fitted to the majority of current rtr models.

I haven't got around to converting the IRM 001 or MM121 at this stage which are fitted with a stepped axle to accomodate rotating bearing caps.

I intended to convert some MM Cravens to 21mm gauge using my own etched bogie frames with MJT sideframes, though I used MJT etched bogies (coach suspension units) and side frames on some 21mm Laminate coaches.

 

One cheap and simple conversion is to widen the existing plastic bogies by fitting new plastic or metal bolster which works remarkably effectively. I also re-used existing wheelsets by cutting and sleeving the existing axles with 2mm bore brass tube.

Plastic wagon kits in this case a Parkside Palvan are easy to re-gauge by moving out the solebars and brake gear.

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Hi John,

Many thanks for the details on regauging, that's really helpful to see the various methods. As you indicate, there seems to be a plethora of different standards for 21mm, in terms of BTB and wheel profile. I don't think I want to go the whole hog to P4 standards; something to suit the NMRA RP25-110 profile would suit me better.

Unfortunately, Ultrascale wheels seem to be on very long lead-times at the moment and very few items are in stock. As yet, I haven't found a source for 21mm gauge wagon/coach wheelsets either, so your idea of extending the axles with a sleeve looks promising.

I did find a useful thread about re-gauging the A class here, there are several different approaches shown for different wheel standards:

I do like the 121 class but they don't feature in my childhood memories at all so I've been holding off buying one of those. Most of the ones available now seem to be of Chinese provenance with some doubt as to whether they are genuine.

 

My plan at the moment is to see how my track construction method works for plain line, and then have a go at re-gauging an IRM wagon (which I hope will be fairly easy), before committing to anything more complex.

 

Cheers,

Mol

[Mol_PMB]

I found some photos of a couple of my earlier Irish modelling projects, a couple of decades ago.

I haven't found anything of the first EM-gauge models (which were later thrown away at some stage) although the offcut of sundeala board I've just used in my photo plank is a remnant of that layout!

 

However, here are some 20-year old photos of some of my later attempts. I think I still have these models (and others of their ilk) boxed up somewhere.

Clogher Valley Railway in 4mm scale:

 

1980s CIE in 6mm:ft on O gauge track:

The genny van did get finished, but I can't find a pic of the completed version.

Ironically, these are all prototypes that IRM haven't tackled yet in 4mm scale...

 

Cheers,

Mol

[Tullygrainey]

Very fine modelling Mol! Love the CVR models. I'm guessing the railcar and loco are scratch builds. Tell us a bit more about how they were made please.

Alan

[Mol_PMB]

15 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Very fine modelling Mol! Love the CVR models. I'm guessing the railcar and loco are scratch builds. Tell us a bit more about how they were made please.

Alan

Thanks Alan!

It's a long time ago now, I'll try to remember:

The CVR wagons had etched brass underframes, I think they were by Branchlines? The bodies were scratchbuilt from plasticard and microstrip.

The CVR railcar was also an etched brass kit, which I never quite finished.

The CVR loco was indeed scratchbuilt from brass, lots of careful work with a piercing saw! Again, unfinished because interests changed when I went off to university!