Irish Shell & BP

[jhb171achill]

Off topic a bit, Mayner, but what's that small green birdcage-roofed van in your photo? Looks interesting.

 

It could be DCDR with G617 and E421!

[h gricer]

The ESSO Teo tank wagons appear to have been imported from the UK in the late 60s.

Mayner, they where the first rail vehicles in this country to carry the notice & symbol ''beware of overhead wires'' long before we had OHL in this country, ironic that they lasted well into the OHL period.

Regards

hg

[Magpie1951]

Off topic a bit, Mayner, but what's that small green birdcage-roofed van in your photo? Looks interesting.

 

It could be DCDR with G617 and E421!

 

 

I would say being a fan of the Midland like John is, it is a model of an 1874 class 8 ton MGWR goods brake van and a very good model of it too in my opinion.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Magpie1951

[Mayner]

I would say being a fan of the Midland like John is, it is a model of an 1874 class 8 ton MGWR goods brake van and a very good model of it too in my opinion.

 

You it the nail on the head Magpie stated about 20 years ago along with a pair of GSR standard opens while living in the Ochiel foothills village of Alva. Interestingly I based the model on a photo and some known dimensions which somehow or other matched up with the late Padraig O'Cuimin's drawing.

 

 

Going back to tank wagons it looks like ESSO/CIE had some relatively modern bitumen tank wagons before the traffic was containerised.

 

 

At the time I was mainly interested in the old Mex Class A tank wagon, but the wagon on the left looks like a modern bitumen tank wagon.

 

Does anyone have a clear photo of an ESSO bitumen tank car?

[Glenderg]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304942

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304941

 

Are these the ones John?

[Mayner]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304941

 

Are these the ones John?

 

The wagon on the left looks suspiciously like one of these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobitumenrebuilt/h1acfab4e#h1acfab4e. The basic design appears to be the same as the Class A tank wagons imported from the UK lagged to carry hot bitumen. The angular shape of the tank barrel is a give away for this type of wagon.

 

Its possible that the lagging was removed and the wagon(s) converted to carry fuel oil or diesel once bitumen traffic was containerised.

 

Irish Bitumen had a few internal user tank wagons up to the end of rail operation in its yard near the end of the Alexandra Road tramway.

 

The tank wagons were on the rail but did not seem to leave the yard. Bitumen was usually transported in ISO tank containers mounted on 4w container flats.

 

Bitumen traffic was fairly light with one or two wagons attached to the Sligo Oil train and CIE Liner Trains.

[Ben]

I think this was one of the Esso tankers

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307735

[Ben]

some more photos

 

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307728

[patrick]

I think this was one of the Esso tankers

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307735

 

I remember seeing these wagons being unloaded into tanker lorries in the North Kerry yard in Tralee in the early seventies still sporting their Esso logos. I painted a couple of Dapol tank wagon kits to represent them.

Edited December 17, 2014 by patrick

[Mayner]

some more photos

 

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307728

 

Ben

 

That's one hell of an interesting photo 984 is a Class A tank wagon probably used to carry petrol. A hose is being used to syphon out the contents into the road tankers by the signal cabin.

 

Bitumen tank wagons have an insulated tank barrel hidden by sheet metal cladding, with flat or slightly coned ends like the wagons in the Paul Burnett photos http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobitumenvb/h3c469d01#h3c469d01. The ESSO tank wagons were basically the first modern design of tank car built in the 1950s made redundant with the introduction of 35T & 100T air braked tank cars in the mid 1960s.

 

 

CIE introduced its own design of saddle mounted bitumen tank wagon for County Council traffic based on the then standard 10' wb unfitted underframe in the late 50 early 60s.

 

Earlier bitumen tank wagons were built by Charles Roberts and other companies in the UK based on traditional tank wagon design with cradle mounted tanks.

 

The tank wagons imported from the UK in the late 60s were owned by ESSO and were built by Charles Roberts in the late 50s. The most noticeable visual differences from the original was the fitting of spring dampers and later the fitting of a reinforcing plate between the tank barrel and solebars. CIE may have had to widen the underframe by up to 6" to run on the Irish gauge, the Airfix/Dapol underframe works fine for OO but needs widening by 2mm (6") for 21mm gauge

Edited December 17, 2014 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

That little scene there of the goods train is a pure cameo. Love the corrugated open....

[josefstadt]

The June 1971 IRRS Journal (No. 55) had a picture of one of the Esso tank wagons (987) arriving at the North Wall on the back of a B+I Line Bedford articulated lorry:

 

[DiveController]

Here are a few pic's of oil wagons. ESSO are mine repainted from Bachmann Fina tanks. Irish Shell is by Andrew Shillito, 3mm Society.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16036[/ATTACH]

Do I understand the comments on the thread correctly that the Bachmann early tankers with the cables round the filler are more prototypical than the Hornby design (which I still like)?

I haven't come across any reasonably priced Fina donors but I think any Bachmann of this type would do as they differ only by livery as far as I can see e.g. Bachmann Burmah and Black Esso tankers seem to be the same wagon to me?

[DiveController]

Do I understand the comments on the thread correctly that the Bachmann early tankers with the cables round the filler are more prototypical than the Hornby design (which I still like)?

I haven't come across any reasonably priced Fina donors but I think any Bachmann of this type would do as they differ only by livery as far as I can see e.g. Bachmann Burmah and Black Esso tankers seem to be the same wagon to me?

Actually I was wrong with this assumption. Except for the Fina three packs (possibly more) many of the Bachmann three packs come with two different tank wagons with cables ties, one with a wide filler port on the top of the tank and two with a smaller one. Been going back over the thread to try to figure out what was prototypical of the early wagons but if anyone can offer any comments to clarify this, that would be extremely helpful.

[StevieB]

The difference in length between the class A and B tank barrels would have been due to the density of the liquid carried, A's carrying less dense products. I wonder, therefore, whether the oil wagons in the oil and magnesite consists between Cork and Ballinacourty would have been A or B?

Many thanks.

 

Stephen

[flange lubricator]

Interesting thread I think the traffic to Ballinacorthy was fuel oil not petrol , so I assume it was class B using the CIE built wagons as opposed to the Charles Roberts ones in fact these train's originally had Ar class locos to haul them but were so heavy the Ar's had to be replaced by 2 x GM's .

[Ben]

Thanks To all for posting Pictures plan to build a Esso liner

Edited December 26, 2014 by Ben

[aclass007]

Interesting thread I think the traffic to Ballinacorthy was fuel oil not petrol , so I assume it was class B using the CIE built wagons as opposed to the Charles Roberts ones in fact these train's originally had Ar class locos to haul them but were so heavy the Ar's had to be replaced by 2 x GM's .

 

Not quite right. A class locos worked the oil magnesite trains between Ballinacourty and Tivoli right up to the end. They were never replaced by a pair of 141's. However, the dolomite train, which brought dolomite ore from Bennettsbridge to Ballinacourty was worked by a pair of 141's.

Here is a photo of the oil tanks on the Ballinacourty branch...

[Riversuir226]

A classes were regulars on the Tivoli to Ballincourty but they weren t the only traction used on the run, pairs of babies were also used on it. If your on facebook theres quite a lot of photos of the services, theres also videos on you tube.

[aclass007]

A classes were regulars on the Tivoli to Ballincourty but they weren t the only traction used on the run, pairs of babies were also used on it. If your on facebook theres quite a lot of photos of the services, theres also videos on you tube.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16515[/ATTACH]

 

Yes, I'm on facebook. 'Irish Railways Past and Present' is the most informative group that I'm aware of, but it hasn't many photos of the Ballinacourty traffic. Are there other FB groups I should be looking at? I never found much on youtube in the past either, despite searching...

[rebelred]

Yes, I'm on facebook. 'Irish Railways Past and Present' is the most informative group that I'm aware of, but it hasn't many photos of the Ballinacourty traffic. Are there other FB groups I should be looking at? I never found much on youtube in the past either, despite searching...

Contact Tom Ryan on I.R.P.A.P, He's a current Driver but has loads of great photos from that era, he put up photos recently of traffic into Tivoli sidings. PM him

[aclass007]

Contact Tom Ryan on I.R.P.A.P, He's a current Driver but has loads of great photos from that era, he put up photos recently of traffic into Tivoli sidings. PM him

 

Yes, I know of Tom from that group. I saw the Tivoli photos you mention.

[Riversuir226]

Waterford history page on facebook is another spot that pics of the magnesite trains show up on from time to time, Michael Faulkner from kilmacthomas is another source of info on the line.

[aclass007]

Waterford history page on facebook is another spot that pics of the magnesite trains show up on from time to time, Michael Faulkner from kilmacthomas is another source of info on the line.

 

Yes, I've talked to Michael. Alas, he has no photos of the trains. I myself have memories of the trains , but got no photos either as I was young and cameras weren't commonplace back then.

[aclass007]

I've just uncovered a photo of an A class working the dolomite ore train in the early days of the Ballinacourty plant. Perhaps it was the dolomite train that had the A class replaced by the pair of GMs.........

[flange lubricator]

I bow to your superior knowledge .......

[patrick]

I've just uncovered a photo of an A class working the dolomite ore train in the early days of the Ballinacourty plant. Perhaps it was the dolomite train that had the A class replaced by the pair of GMs......... [ATTACH=CONFIG]16518[/ATTACH]

 

I recall reading in Irish Railfan News that A class were tried on the dolomite trains but had difficulty starting loaded trains on grades after stopping at the then unmaned level crossings on the Waterford-Ballinacourty line. Great photo. Is that the line to Dungarvan on the right?

Edited December 27, 2014 by patrick

[josefstadt]

Is that the line to Dungarvan on the right?

 

It is Patrick and, as far as I'm aware, that's the lifting train in the distance.

[Riversuir226]

Yes the last part of the stub to Dungarvan was lifted shortly after the opening of the line to Ballinacourty.

[Mayner]

Actually I was wrong with this assumption. Except for the Fina three packs (possibly more) many of the Bachmann three packs come with two different tank wagons with cables ties, one with a wide filler port on the top of the tank and two with a smaller one. Been going back over the thread to try to figure out what was prototypical of the early wagons but if anyone can offer any comments to clarify this, that would be extremely helpful.

 

 

Just dug out a copy of the 4mm Wagon Part 2 by Geoff Kent of Dunwich fame mainly UK but a complete chapter on modelling tank wagons including converting the Airfix/Dapol ESSO tank wagon into a class A & a photo of a new tank wagon supplied to Shell-Mex Ltd for use in Northern Ireland.

 

Tank wagons with a hand wheel on the top like the http://www.ehattons.com/60950/Bachmann_Branchline_37_672_Pack_of_3_14_Ton_tank_wagons_in_British_Tar_livery_weathered/StockDetail.aspx or Dapol ESSO tanker were used for heavy oil or even molasses. No hand wheel and a vertical tube petrol http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/37-684.jpg&cat_no=37-684&info=0&width=650&height=417.

 

The size of the dome may be more to do with the age of the wagon than its function. It had to be big enough for a man to get through hopefully with some form of rescue system

 

Irish private owner tank wagons appear to have been mainly standard UK Railway Clearing House (RCH) designs, standard RCH tank wagons also appear to have been imported for bitumen traffic by CIE before developing its own tank wagon designs in the 1960s. Some private owner wagons found their way into departmental use in the 1960s and 70s including a complete rake of Caltex/Texaco wagons on the North Wall-Inchacore oil trains.

 

Texaco anchor mounted tank wagon last used North Wall-Inchacore fuel oil train dumped Dardannelle Sidings Caltex lettering grinning through

 

A few private owner tank wagons found their way into preservation, though a large number were stored/dumped in the Dardnelles Siding East Wall before the yard was re-modelled in the early 2000s .

 

 

 

Initially Class A tank wagons were painted buff or light stone with a red horizontal band around the centre of the tank barrel in a similar style to the Ammonia tank wagons. Silverette or silver grey replaced immediately before WW11. The red band moved down to the solebars, from the 60s onwards "dove grey" replaced silver.

 

The wagons evolved through several stages up to the introduction of the ESSO 35T GLW tank wagon in the late 1950s.

 

 

Railway Clearing House (RCH) pre-1927 cradle tank wagon with cable stays The Irish Shell wagon is for Class A with vertical syphon pipe for unloading visible at the top of the tank.

 

RCH Post 27 cradle tank wagon with horizontal tie bar between butresses 210 was a bit unusual with the tank divided into two compartments possibly to carry petrol & paraffin or TVO. The livery is still the old style with the horizontal red line in the middle of the tank.

 

CIE 26570 series tank wagon with anchor mounted tank Introduced during WW II anchor mounted tanks were the next phase off tank wagon development. CIE & Caltex appear to have imported anchor mounted tank wagons from the UK on traditional RCH style unfitted underframes (hand brake only) up to the early 1960s.

 

The 26570 series built for Foynes-Drogheda & Castle Munget oil trains represented a change in operating pattern from individual wagon load to block train operation for a single large customer in this case Irish Cement. These wagons ran on a 20' 11'wb underframe with a capacity of 4760gal heavy fuel oil.

 

CIE 26695-26772 series CIE-Burmah tank wagon Introduced in the distinctive Burmah livery in 1972 or Cork-Limerick Oil traffic four wagons appear to have been painted blue for class B traffic and 2 in an interesting variation of the Class A dove grey and red scheme similar to the Hornby model http://irishrailmodels.com/2012/01/27/hornby-burmah-oil-tanker-r792/ While the chassis of Dapol tank wagon can probably be shortened to represent the CIE tank wagons, none of the British tank wagons are really suitable.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mayner

[Riversuir226]

[DiveController]

Very interesting. Think I got it and purchased some Bachmann donors. Thanks, John.

Is it just me, Tom, or are there two different shades of 'Inchicore Special' orange on 160?

[aclass007]

Very interesting. Think I got it and purchased some Bachmann donors. Thanks, John.

Is it just me, Tom, or are there two different shades of 'Inchicore Special' orange on 160?

 

Now that you mention it, there seems to be!

 

That photo is exactly how I remember the dolomite train. It's really hard to believe that it's almost 33 years since they last ran!

[Noel]

Just dug out a copy of the 4mm Wagon Part 2 by Geoff Kent of Dunwich fame mainly UK but a complete chapter on modelling tank wagons including converting the Airfix/Dapol ESSO tank wagon into a class A & a photo of a new tank wagon supplied to Shell-Mex Ltd for use in Northern Ireland.

 

Tank wagons with a hand wheel on the top like the http://www.ehattons.com/60950/Bachmann_Branchline_37_672_Pack_of_3_14_Ton_tank_wagons_in_British_Tar_livery_weathered/StockDetail.aspx or Dapol ESSO tanker were used for heavy oil or even molasses. No hand wheel and a vertical tube petrol http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/37-684.jpg&cat_no=37-684&info=0&width=650&height=417.

 

The size of the dome may be more to do with the age of the wagon than its function. It had to be big enough for a man to get through hopefully with some form of rescue system

 

Irish private owner tank wagons appear to have been mainly standard UK Railway Clearing House (RCH) designs, standard RCH tank wagons also appear to have been imported for bitumen traffic by CIE before developing its own tank wagon designs in the 1960s. Some private owner wagons found their way into departmental use in the 1960s and 70s including a complete rake of Caltex/Texaco wagons on the North Wall-Inchacore oil trains.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16523[/ATTACH]

Texaco anchor mounted tank wagon last used North Wall-Inchacore fuel oil train dumped Dardannelle Sidings Caltex lettering grinning through

 

A few private owner tank wagons found their way into preservation, though a large number were stored/dumped in the Dardnelles Siding East Wall before the yard was re-modelled in the early 2000s .

 

 

 

Initially Class A tank wagons were painted buff or light stone with a red horizontal band around the centre of the tank barrel in a similar style to the Ammonia tank wagons. Silverette or silver grey replaced immediately before WW11. The red band moved down to the solebars, from the 60s onwards "dove grey" replaced silver.

 

The wagons evolved through several stages up to the introduction of the ESSO 35T GLW tank wagon in the late 1950s.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16519[/ATTACH]

 

Railway Clearing House (RCH) pre-1927 cradle tank wagon with cable stays The Irish Shell wagon is for Class A with vertical syphon pipe for unloading visible at the top of the tank.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16520[/ATTACH]

RCH Post 27 cradle tank wagon with horizontal tie bar between butresses 210 was a bit unusual with the tank divided into two compartments possibly to carry petrol & paraffin or TVO. The livery is still the old style with the horizontal red line in the middle of the tank.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16521[/ATTACH]

CIE 26570 series tank wagon with anchor mounted tank Introduced during WW II anchor mounted tanks were the next phase off tank wagon development. CIE & Caltex appear to have imported anchor mounted tank wagons from the UK on traditional RCH style unfitted underframes (hand brake only) up to the early 1960s.

 

The 26570 series built for Foynes-Drogheda & Castle Munget oil trains represented a change in operating pattern from individual wagon load to block train operation for a single large customer in this case Irish Cement. These wagons ran on a 20' 11'wb underframe with a capacity of 4760gal heavy fuel oil.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16522[/ATTACH]

CIE 26695-26772 series CIE-Burmah tank wagon Introduced in the distinctive Burmah livery in 1972 or Cork-Limerick Oil traffic four wagons appear to have been painted blue for class B traffic and 2 in an interesting variation of the Class A dove grey and red scheme similar to the Hornby model http://irishrailmodels.com/2012/01/27/hornby-burmah-oil-tanker-r792/ While the chassis of Dapol tank wagon can probably be shortened to represent the CIE tank wagons, none of the British tank wagons are really suitable.

 

That's excellent info John. Thanks for such an informative post.

[scahalane]

There seems to be at least 3 variations of the CIE 26695-26772 series CIE-Burmah tank wagon that I can see. The tank in the first image is shorter than the 20' wagon base with 12 support brackets where as the tank in the second image seems to be the full length of the 20' wagon with 13 support brackets. The tank in the 3rd image is similar in length to the 1st but with a different support cradle. Would anyone have any drawings of these wagons?

 

 

 

 

Not sure where I got these images from so I hope the photographer doesn't mind me using them.