Ernies Massive Irish 1930's to 2005 Photo Archive

[leslie10646]

2 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Should have had more 500s, and forget about building the three enormous white (or is that green?) elephants.

The Late Drew Donaldson had a very high opinion of the 500s, a view shared by others, so yes, you are right that more of them would have been good, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have agreed with you about the 800s!

They had the misfortune to be built just as war loomed (of course, there should never have been a war at all, but that's another issue) so never had a chance to show how good they were (or not). The Blessed Oliver put paid to any future they might have had by ordering the A Class in the mid-fifties.

Of course, for a country with little steam-able coal, they were a nonesense as even in 1939 the yanks were proving that diesels offered a future?

Now, having acted as an Agent provocateur, let me make another suggestion.

Perhaps Ireland should have looked at electric traction? There's a long and well reasoned article in IRRS Journal Volume 1 on railway electrification - it concluded that it wasn't on then (1947/8) as it would have wolfed up masses of capital and a high proportion of the electricity then generated. It DID touch on  battery power, which Dr Drumm had proved was workable and touched on partial electrification (like the "power islands" they're talking about today, to zap power into battery trains and which we will soon see - seventy years later).

Another what if?

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Seems that the only tapered boilers that the GSR/CIE ever dealt with were those on the Woolwich Moguls. Everything else was strictly parallel.

Interestingly some of the large Coey era  GSWR 4-4-0s retained tapered boilers until rebuilt by the GSR with superheated boilers during the 1930s. Apparently tapered boilers were introduced during the 1900s to keep the axleloading of the 321 and 333 Class 4-4-0s within the Civil Engineers limits. Some of the 4-4-0s were rebuilt before the (1925) Amalgamation with new heavier frames, but retaining the original tapered boilers after axle loading was increased following the re-laying of the Main Line.

The 800 Class & Drumm Battery trains.

There was certainly an element of national pride in the 800 Class and Drumm Trains C&D also introduced 1939. C&D had a modern contemporary appearance not unlike the LMS Leyland articulated railcar set trialed on the Oxford-Cambridge line around the same time. C&D were let down by using refurbished batteries from the original Drumm trains A&B, the refurbished batteries becoming life expired after approx 5 years.

[Mayner]

On 10/12/2024 at 2:24 AM, leslie10646 said:

Now, having acted as an Agent provocateur, let me make another suggestion.

Perhaps Ireland should have looked at electric traction? There's a long and well reasoned article in IRRS Journal Volume 1 on railway electrification - it concluded that it wasn't on then (1947/8) as it would have wolfed up masses of capital and a high proportion of the electricity then generated. It DID touch on  battery power, which Dr Drumm had proved was workable and touched on partial electrification (like the "power islands" they're talking about today, to zap power into battery trains and which we will soon see - seventy years later).

Another what if?

There is a story of Bulleid explaining his concept of a fireless main-line  loco to a group of workers during an after dinner strole around the Tender Shop during his early days at Inchacore.  It appear the guys asked Bullied about his plans for a new loco and he drew up a sketch (concept drawing) of a fireless loco that would be 'topped up' at a series of charging stations around the network.  

I guess we will never know whether there is some truth to the story.

The ESB substantially increased it power generation capacity from Hydro and Peat from the late 40s onwards against a background of economic stagnation and a falling population.

The railways may have been seen as a means of absorbing some of the additional capacity in the same way as the GSR was enticed (manipulated) into building the Drumm Battery trains by the offer of 'cheap electricity' from the Shannon Scheme. 

Whatever about fireless locos topped up by lineside generating plants, development of the Drumm principal with partial electrification would have been feasible and fitted in with the social and economic aspirations of the 1st 'Inter-party' Government elected in 1948 (Declare a Republic, attempt to set up a 'Welfare State" (Mother and Child scheme) based on the UK model, and lay groundwork for the Republics economic transformation from the 60s onwards. 

A  change from a railway a railway that mainly exported cattle and people, to one that carried mineral and manufacturing outputs to the ports from the 60s to the 90s  to the contemporary railway that mainly transports commuters to their offices in the cities.

Faced with the reality of a stagnant economy, the railway worsening financial position, CIE had to modernise 'on the cheap" with diesel traction and cheaply built stock good for 20 or so years.

Still at the end of the day a modern variant of Drumm's Battery trains are likely to resume operation in Ireland over 90 years after the initial trials on the GSR. 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Mayner