Oxford Rail Mk3 Coaches Irish Rail??

[NIRCLASS80]

How many people would be interested in a new run of IR/IE Mk3 coaches. Perhaps if all those interested registered their interest on here now and then Oxford Rail contacted about this thread they may consider including the Irish variations when producing the molds for the models.

Oxford do tend to do a large range of colour schemes on any product they produce so lets hope if the feedback is positive here then who knows what could happen!!

 

Here goes;

 

6 Standard

1 Restaurant Buffet Standard

1 Brake Generator Van

 

[skinner75]

I wouldn't mind - the only mk3s I have are the two red executive ones

[Horsetan]

Aren't the Irish Mk.3s wider than the British ones? Or have I been misinformed?

[Railer]

Aren't the Irish Mk.3s wider than the British ones? Or have I been misinformed?

 

Exacty the same mechanically, just our have Irish gauge bogies.

 

I'd be down for a full 9 coach set in IE and Supertain liveries. EGVs and correct Restaurants if at all possible. Also a 6 coach MK3 push pull set.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Railer

[NIRCLASS80]

I think the width is only a bogie factor.

[Horsetan]

Aha, OK so.

[Warbonnet]

Exacty the same mechanically, just our have Irish gauge bogies.

 

I'd be down for a full 9 coach set in IE and Supertain liveries. EGVs and correct Restaurants if at all possible. Also a 6 coach MK3 push pull set.

 

And different doors of course.

 

Be interesting to see if they'd sell considering the amount of repaints out there and the old Lima stock over the years. Wonder what the quality will be like too!

[aclass007]

Would the Irish Gen van simply be a repaint of the UK version, or are there differences in the two prototypes?

[josefstadt]

To the best of my knowledge there were no MkIII gen vans in Britain.

[Railer]

The Mk3 EGV is a unique Irish design. UK locos that haul coaches typically have ETH installed and it works much better than HEP on the 201s.

[Horsetan]

To the best of my knowledge there were no MkIII gen vans in Britain.

 

No GVs on the BR network. Trains were equipped with ETH / air-con and had on-board generators on non-HST coaches, etc, so a gen van was unnecessary.

[Noel]

I would like to have some decent Mk3's but they are rather long and might not look great with the radius curves on our layout and would probably need to limit rake to 5 coaches due to platform lengths which just doesn't look the same as a standard 8 coach rake. But a 3 coach push pull with MM121 might not look out of place despite the long coaches overhanging track work on bends.

[aclass007]

So, it would mean Oxford would have to produce the Gen van from scratch, which might be a stumbling block....

[Warbonnet]

I also hear another manufacturer is working on Mark III stock, be interesting to see what they come out with.

[Blaine]

The Mk3 EGV is a unique Irish design. UK locos that haul coaches typically have ETH installed and it works much better than HEP on the 201s.

 

The centre motorcoach on the BR Class 442 Wessex units had a central door layout identical to the Mk3 EGV prior to their rebuilding.

 

Development work to the structure of the BR Mk3 coach undertaken for IE, specifically the floor being able to take greater weights (to permit a generator to be installed) and power operated plug doors, provided the key to the evolution of the Mk3 design that became the class 442 EMU.

[Noel]

I also hear another manufacturer is working on Mark III stock, be interesting to see what they come out with.

 

Fran what are these SF push pull sets like? http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-mk3-suburban-sets I've never seen any of their mk3 RTR stuff up close but it looks a bit expensive compared to respray costs.

 

Mainline sample http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ie_mk3_mainline_intercity.jpg

 

Noel

Edited January 27, 2016 by Noel

[Warbonnet]

Fran what are these SF push pull sets like? http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-mk3-suburban-sets I've never seen any of their mk3 RTR stuff up close but it looks a bit expensive compared to respray costs. Mainline sample http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ie_mk3_mainline_intercity.jpg Noel

 

Front of the control car looks all wrong profile wise to me, but I'm not an expert. Made using hornby coaches as a base I believe.

[Blaine]

Fran what are these SF push pull sets like? http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-mk3-suburban-sets I've never seen any of their mk3 RTR stuff up close but it looks a bit expensive compared to respray costs.

 

Mainline sample http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ie_mk3_mainline_intercity.jpg

 

Noel

 

Well you seemed very happy to buy the similar quality and similarly priced IFM coaches and regard them highly. So these should suit your own personal needs precisely. Complete with their wooden chassis and dodgy shades of orange. They are not to be considered RTR, just pre assembled kits.....

[Railer]

Fran what are these SF push pull sets like? http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-mk3-suburban-sets I've never seen any of their mk3 RTR stuff up close but it looks a bit expensive compared to respray costs.

 

Mainline sample http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ie_mk3_mainline_intercity.jpg

 

Noel

 

I almost bought one at the Blackrock show, had a good look at a set in my hand while discussing it with Dave Bracken. I was very 50/50 on it, the DVT looks ok from some angles but off on others where even the duck test is pushing it. After a good 15mins examining it I could not justify the cost for the finished quality myself.

 

Just comparing it to the likes of the D&M DD Enterprise stock quality and price wise the SF models are not close imo.

[Noel]

I almost bought one at the Blackrock show, had a good look at a set in my hand while discussing it with Dave Bracken. I was very 50/50 on it, the DVT looks ok from some angles but off on others where even the duck test is pushing it. After a good 15mins examining it I could not justify the cost for the finished quality myself.

 

Just comparing it to the likes of the D&M DD Enterprise stock quality and price wise the SF models are not close imo.

 

Thanks Railer. They must have been on the CD stand and I didn't notice them. That answers my query.

[RedRich]

I also hear another manufacturer is working on Mark III stock, be interesting to see what they come out with.

 

I'd imagine the Rapido boys will make MK111's for the Prototype HST Fran. Going with their track record they will be superb.

 

Rich,

[RedRich]

I'd be surprised if Oxford Rail would tool up for the small Irish market. I think the best you could hope for is a run of Standards in Irish livery.

 

Rich,

Edited January 27, 2016 by RedRich

[hurricanemk1c]

Rapido are doing their own to the Prototype HST spec.

 

As for Oxford Rail, I wouldn't rule out anything. Looking at the CAD side drawing (http://www.oxfordrail.com/76/images2/ORMK3%20LINE.jpg) there's a lot of the variations of the basic Mark 3 (mainly buffet). The Control Car is quite different, whilst the plug doors can be relatively easily done

[Blaine]

Rapido are doing their own to the Prototype HST spec.

 

Where has that been said?

 

If Oxford have enough interest they will produce them in the 4 Irish liveries (CIE/IR/IE/Executive). But Id say given the huge number of UK liveries there could be a bit of a wait

[Warbonnet]

From my own British outline interest point of view I'll be waiting to see what competitors come out with and wait to see the Oxford effort in the plastic before I make my mind up. Their track record so far seems to be average.

[Blaine]

From my own British outline interest point of view I'll be waiting to see what competitors come out with and wait to see the Oxford effort in the plastic before I make my mind up. Their track record so far seems to be average.

 

Indeed, all too easy to jump to conclusions in these times

[Horsetan]

More froth in these things than a capuccino.

[NIRCLASS80]

The crack is great. This is just what forums were made for!!

 

If Rapido bring the Mark3 to the British market the model will be good but the price might just be the sticking point for many modellers.

[DiveController]

Exacty the same mechanically, just our have Irish gauge bogies.

 

I'd be down for a full 9 coach set in IE and Supertain liveries. EGVs and correct Restaurants if at all possible. Also a 6 coach MK3 push pull set.

I'd prioritize as follows. Supertrain full rake. EGVs and Restaurant would have to be correct for Irish prototypes. Much easier than respraying this rake. Also P-P set and incomplete set in IE (maybe full rake and get rid of my incomplete Lima rake)

[josefstadt]

Where has that been said?

 

It was announced at the Warley 2015 show by Locomotionmodels and Rapido Trains; it was reported in the January 2016 edition of Model Rail (p. 28); and the announcement is on the section Rapido Trains website dealing with British models (http://uk.rapidotrains.com/). It remains to be decided what the package will include - just the power cars or if there will be the coaches as well.

Edited January 27, 2016 by josefstadt

[hurricanemk1c]

The poster in the background of this shot definately shows Mark 3's - something stange to put in (in what looks to be a complete formation too, from the photo in Jan 2016 Model Rail) if you're not going to produce the models

 

[Glenderg]

Question is though - would folk pony up for a standard open coach, with Rapido's level of internal lighting, detailing of interior, and so on. I reckon it might be about €75 for the UK version, before you start to strip and respray it. Is there a market ?

[RedRich]

Question is though - would folk pony up for a standard open coach, with Rapido's level of internal lighting, detailing of interior, and so on. I reckon it might be about €75 for the UK version, before you start to strip and respray it. Is there a market ?

 

Richie I would only be interested in a MK111 model if it was tooled up for an Irish prototype. Correct doors, seating arrangement. All the embellishments that separate it from a UK coach. Then there is the conundrum of what to do about the Restaurant and EGV. I know I am in a small minority here. I want to model what I have seen prototypical wise, that is a choice I have made and I will stick to it. Many are prepared to repaint Hornby, Jouef, or Lima models and that is more than enough for them. So if a prototypical model of a MK111 set to the standard of the Cravens was to be released even if the price was obviously going to be around that figure you threw out there, then I would support it. But if it was for a repaint of even a top notch Rapido level BR MK111, then no.

 

Rich,

[Glenderg]

For that kind of money for the donor coach, you'd expect it to be spot on and painted in the right colour, have the correct interior and the different door variants sorted. The restaurant coach had different doors on either end, one BR, one IE, whereas the standard open was different again. I doubt, given my recent experience with asian manufacturers, they'd be able to reproduce anything other than a Standard Open without substantial additional costs. The tooling costs required for EGV's and Restaurants would be unholy. It could be as much as €100 a coach.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Glenderg

[josefstadt]

The poster in the background of this shot definately shows Mark 3's - something stange to put in (in what looks to be a complete formation too, from the photo in Jan 2016 Model Rail) if you're not going to produce the models

 

 

The Rapido announcement on the company's website starts: 'Following the exclusive APT-E trainset and Stirling Single locomotive, Rapido Trains Inc. and Locomotion Models are excited to reveal a new partnership to produce the ground-breaking Prototype HST (HST-E) Power Cars in 4mm scale/OO gauge as part of the ‘National Collection in Miniature’ series' (my emphasis). I would agree, however, that it would make more sense and be quite likely that there would be at least some intermediate trailers produced. Fortunately, for those wishing to convert these coaches to represent Irish MkIIIs, the vehicles used on the prototype HSDT were fitted with buffers. But, as RedRich says, the resulting conversion would again be just a repaint of an expensive BR MkIII with wrong doors etc and, as Glenderg points out, the cost of a correct version would likely be prohibitive.