Noel Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Just finished lightly weathering our fleet of Irish Freight Models (IFM) coaching stock collected over past few years. Assembled them into a rake for pic and video clip below. I am thrilled to have a rake of early era CIE coaching stock, and really delighted with these unique and good looking coaches. Well done Tom. Will try and get a better picture in daylight in the next few days. Enjoy the short video clip. Also has some of my recent attempts at weathering goods wagons. Locos are running 'wheeltappers' DCC sound projects running on LokSound decoders supplied by DC-Kits. Bulleid Heating Van (2 axle) Park Royals x 2 CIE Laminate Park Royal x 1 TPO (Travelling post office 2 axle) Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel typo Quote
JasonB Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 That looks and sounds fantastic Noel.190 pulling away is just class. Quote
Noel Posted March 6, 2017 Author Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) That looks and sounds fantastic Noel.190 pulling away is just class. Thanks Jason. I can't stop driving the two new LokSounds from 'Wheeltappers' on 181 and 190. A sight to behold. Some more taken in daylight to add a little atmosphere. I am more than pleased with these iconic RTR coaches. The very light weathering helped tone down the shade of orange on the Park Royals, TPO and heating Van. A rake entirely made up of RTR coaching stock from IFM - such a rake but an impossible dream 30 years ago. Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Have you been appointed director of marketing for IFM and Wheeltapper sounds, Noel?? Quote
Admin Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Is that not the same photo Noel? Some detail shots would help? Quote
Noel Posted March 6, 2017 Author Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Have you been appointed director of marketing for IFM and Wheeltapper sounds, Noel?? No connection whatsoever, just a happy customer of both. The sound chips were actually supplied by DC-Kits (Charlie Petty), but the sound projects were made by 'wheeltappers' who also sell direct. As Charlie's stuff is mainly by Legomanbiffo I had incorrectly assumed it was biff who'd make it but both he and Charlie pointed me at wheeltappers. As to IFM I have been trying to learn to airbrush and I finally got around to doing a light weathering job on the coaches I'd bought from them over the past two years. Hence the recent interest http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/irish_diesel_loco_sounds http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-5/index.html Is that not the same photo Noel? Some detail shots would help? Hi Stephen. No those two were taken in poor daylight (High ISO), the other one was last evening under poor indoor light hence the narrow DOF blurry effect and the white balance was also incorrect. Almost identical scenes though. Sure can take some closer shots when the light is good enough. Noel Edited March 6, 2017 by Noel Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Only pulling your leg Noel! 😀 Some close up detail shots of them would be great when you get the camera settings sorted out Quote
Junctionmad Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 awesome scenes Noel , were it that CIE was ever that busy ! Quote
Noel Posted March 7, 2017 Author Posted March 7, 2017 Only pulling your leg Noel! Some close up detail shots of them would be great when you get the camera settings sorted out Hi Fran. Will do, and no prob Link here to clearer 1080p video clip: http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3707-Which-DCC-sound-chip-for-MM-141-181?p=98166&viewfull=1#post98166 Noel Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Hi Fran. Will do, and no prob Link here to clearer 1080p video clip: http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3707-Which-DCC-sound-chip-for-MM-141-181?p=98166&viewfull=1#post98166 Noel Thanks for the effort, Noel. Was hoping to see some close up pics of detail and finish as I've heard a lot of people talk about them but no matter. Only thing I've really seen of them so far is distant video shots. Quote
Noel Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the effort, Noel. Was hoping to see some close up pics of detail and finish as I've heard a lot of people talk about them but no matter. Only thing I've really seen of them so far is distant video shots. Hi Fran, Stephen Light wasn't great but here are some close up photos as requested. The Park Royals and Laminates could do with door handles, etc. The shade of tan on the PR needed to be toned down. Noel TPO 2 axle TPO 2 axle Bulleid heating van 2 axle Bulleid heating van 2 axle Bulleid heating van 2 axle Park Royal Park Royal Park Royal Laminate Laminate Laminate The lot together makes up a nice mixed rake of Irish coach types typical of the 60s and early 70s. Mix and match with MM Cravens and SF GSVs and you can run plenty of variety of black'n'tan era passenger trains. Not bad at all for resin mouldings. PS: Btw I know the Park Royals above had two white stripes instead of one typical of the period, I just prefer the look of the 'tippex' Park Royals on our layout. Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel typo + PhotoBucket replaced Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Thanks for the pics, Noel. They confirm what I wanted to know. Quote
Blaine Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 For that money Id want something that is not 3D printed and has flush glazing along with correct decoration. For that money you could buy 2 MM Cravens. Time for people to vote with their feet. So what if it is Irish and RTR. Its wrong and people need to speak up and not embrace it cos its Irish and therefore flawless If something thats RTR is not up to a certain standard people will complain. We are past the stage of 'OMG Irish RTR models' if it is not good enough people will make this known. There have been plenty of disgruntled British outline modellers when certain high profile and expensive models have not met expectations and this has forced the manufacturer to alter the product. This needs to happen here. If its a kit you can make it to your own standard. My MIR 111's had the majority of the whitemetal parts staying in the box and at least half of the resin on the body being removed. Built to my standard and a lot of people liked it There is a very clear split visible on this forum......those who enjoy collecting and operating models and those who strive for better. Each has their own view but me being in the latter camp I will always want more. For €100 RTR I want the right colour, correct detail,flush glazing, injection moulded plastic and free running - at the very least. Ive found little things that can be done to any Murphy Models loco and make a vast improvement in appearance. Making the best better... From the opinions Im getting the new IRM wagons could have been 3d printed and sold in equally good numbers If people keep supporting these models at this level of detailing etc then thats what they will get into the future. Quote
RedRich Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 I have seen an IFM Park Royal up close, and for the money it is priced at I think it falls way below that value. It fails in a lot of departments that should be high end quality. If someone is willing to part with that amount of money and is happy with it then good luck to them. I don't buy into the it's Irish or a small market for a second neither. Rich, Quote
Junctionmad Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 yes , but in the absence of alternatives ,,, etc Quote
Glenderg Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 yes , but in the absence of alternatives ,,, etc http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/660-Worsley-Works-ParkRoyal-build Quote
Noel Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/660-Worsley-Works-ParkRoyal-build Yes that kit/part scratch built PR does look superb, but what RTR alternatives are there? Not everybody is a talented master builder. I agree with some of the earlier comments, the cost seems a lot for the level of detail, and yes MM Cravens are obviously on another planet, but the RTR laminates and PRs are not bad for low volume resin bodies. Its a free world and I appreciate folks have different opinions, requirements and expectations. If somebody ever produces a complete fine scale quality kit, or better still produces fine scale injection moulded plastic versions of a similar quality to MM cravens I'll bite their hand off. Or indeed if anybody is interested in commissions to build fine scale stock I'd love to know. Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 8, 2017 Posted March 8, 2017 Looking at the above pics of the Park Royals in particular, I notice that they are in the 1990s livery with the "tippex" line at waist level as well as above the windows. As a matter of curiousity, did the manufacturers do a "black'n'tan" era version with no waist white line, or an original green version, by any chance? The mid white line, (like a Craven with an upper orange line), are of the 90s, and obviously earlier versions would be welcome. Quote
Noel Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 Looking at the above pics of the Park Royals in particular, I notice that they are in the 1990s livery with the "tippex" line at waist level as well as above the windows. As a matter of curiousity, did the manufacturers do a "black'n'tan" era version with no waist white line, or an original green version, by any chance? The mid white line, (like a Craven with an upper orange line), are of the 90s, and obviously earlier versions would be welcome. Well spotted JB. Yes both versions were available (i.e. 1 white stripe or two), but despite my 60s preference I choose tippex versions (see below which was at the end of the photo post). PS: Btw I know the Park Royals above had two white stripes instead of one typical of the period, I just prefer the look of the 'tippex' Park Royals on our layout Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 That layout and everything on it looks absolutely top class. Love your weathering. It's just as I remember it - things were generally pretty clean in the black'n'tan era - unlike the grey green silver era just before when all but new stuff tended to be VERY down at heel! Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 I have to agree with Blaine & RedRich here If you pay top dollar you should recieve top notch work As my modelling skills are non existant I commissioned some Park Royals but when they arrived they were way below what I had expected I hope to have them sorted some time but with all the new model about to be released they are on the back burner However people vote with their pocket and if this is a coach that you are happy with, knock yourself out Its your hobby, enjoy! Quote
Mayner Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) To put things in perspective mass produced injected models like the MM Cravens are incredibly cheap because they sell in 1000s rather than the 50 + units required to break even with hand finished resin cast model. A professionally assembled brass SSM or Worsley Works coach is likey to set the buyer back a min £250-300 the parts alone to build a brass coach will set you back around £70. The IFM rtr coaches are reasonably priced for what they are and ideal for a layout such as Noel's where the emphasis is on action, but totally unsuitable for a fine scale layout such as Advavoyle or Valencia Harbour where models are viewed up close. Edited March 9, 2017 by Mayner Quote
Junctionmad Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 I suppose at the end of the day , it boils down to what one thinks is " top dollar " , certainly commissioning a high quality coach is well beyond 100 quid or so ( and likely well beyond 200 ) As for suitability for a given layout. Well I'm sure P4 plank style layouts like Valencia harbour would take an IFM moulding and make great things with it. A large 00 layout like Noels hasn't that luxury of just needing 6 pieces of rolling stock ! Or in tony mills , case, a virtual battilion of helpers. Equally we see everyday layouts that are full of compromises , highly detailed stock running on PECO 100 , or Scenery that is inexpertly rendered etc. Very few modellers are experts in all forms of the craft. My own view is a layout works best when the " general " level of detail and accuracy is the same across all the crafts that make up railway modelling. Whether that's good , great or extra ordinary accuracy is really up to the layout implementior . Therefore I think the critism is misplaced somewhat, yes the models have deficiencies and the manufacturing methodology has drawbacks, but right now it's the only rtr available and that floats Noels boat and as we say round here " it's your train set " Quote
Blaine Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Therefore I think the critism is misplaced somewhat, yes the models have deficiencies and the manufacturing methodology has drawbacks, but right now it's the only rtr available Did people say that when Lima 33's masquerading as CIE locos were sold? Quote
Junctionmad Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Did people say that when Lima 33's masquerading as CIE locos were sold? I presume many were bought , but I can't tell Equally the various ifm models are considerably better then the Lima case. I've seen them up close , they are " not bad " Quote
RedRich Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 The criticism is not displaced one bit. Dave is a collector and enthusiast of the hobby and has seen every kind of quality in his time, therefore his opinion is sound. The same can be said for Ed's opinion as he has been involved in the hobby for a long time as a modeller and exhibitor at shows on this island and beyond. The OP himself has stated in another thread that he would not want to go down the kit road of non injection moulded plastic models. When he asked the IRM team if there were any intentions of a bullied corrugated model being produced the lads said there were no plans at this time. It was pointed out to him that another manufacturer has produced a fine kit of the wagon, he said himself he would only be interested in injection moulded plastic models. That then blows the availability theory out of the water. I'll take a bet Junctionmad, that if anyone except Noel had started this thread you would not have gotten involved in it. Rich, Quote
David Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Wow! What a load of bollox. I suggest this thread be deleted or locked as it's nothing short of an IFM bashing exercise. A few facts: 1: IFM do not charge top dollar. 95 euro is NOTHING for a handmade model of any description. Comparing with China mass production? Meaningless. 2: It is well known that IFM have some compromises in their models. As with any product, look at the pics before buying. 3: It's a free world, IFM can make whatever they like, however they like. 4: The people who produce Irish models do it mostly out of the desire to create an Irish railway model scene and hopefully not go broke in the process. There's a reason the UK manufacturers haven't touched the Irish market except when commissioned with money up front. You can still get Cravens made 10 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement and waiting around for top notch RTR everything on this board. Ain't gonna happen in any of our lifetimes/ever. Out of curiosity I bought an IFM Park Royal kit. It's perfectly well cast and will make into a lovely model with medium modelling skills. Not 'Master' skills as some have suggested. So enough with the IFM bashing and get out your glue and airbrushes chaps. I learned from nothing and so can the rest of you. Edited March 9, 2017 by David Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Wow! What a load of bollox. I suggest this thread be deleted or locked as it's nothing short of an IFM bashing exercise. A few facts: 1: IFM do not charge top dollar. 95 euro is NOTHING for a handmade model of any description. Comparing with China mass production? Meaningless. 2: It is well known that IFM have some compromises in their models. As with any product, look at the pics before buying. 3: It's a free world, IFM can make whatever they like, however they like. 4: The people who produce Irish models do it mostly out of the desire to create and Irish railway model scene and hopefully not go broke in the process. There's a reason the UK manufactures haven't touched the Irish market except when commissioned with money up front. You can still get Cravens made 10 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement and waiting around for top notch RTR everything on this board. Ain't gonna happen in any of our lifetimes/ever. Out of curiosity I bought an IFM Park Royal kit. It's perfectly well cast and will make into a lovely model with medium modelling skills. Not 'Master' skills as some have suggested. So enough with the IFM bashing and get out your glue and airbrushes chaps. I learned from nothing and so can the rest of you. I have to say I agree with this entirely. The model world is for all - engineering perfection is for some, accurate appearance for others, smaller budget for others, absolute perfection in all regards for some of us who can afford it. This is an excellent forum where as long as I've been reading it everybody has happily bumbled along merrily together. There will be few products from any manufacturer which suits everyone's standards and budgets. Personally, I salute IFM for satisfying the market they do, also others for the different emphases they place on their projects. Anyone who enters what (read post above) is undoubtedly an extremely difficult commercial market is to be lauded. Leslie's wagons, Garfield's bubbles, and others here will all agree; not easy to produce. So - IFM - certainly, for some people but not all, but hats off for what they do. That's just my bit. Over'n'out. Quote
RedRich Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 When I saw the word facts it reminded me of the rant Rafa Benitez had when he was Liverpool manager. We all know how that ended up. Leave the modding to the lads. Rich, Quote
Noel Posted March 9, 2017 Author Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Guys. As the OP, I apologise if my enthusiasm and enjoyment from recently weathering these coaches acquired over the past few years has caused disharmony. I respect all shades of opinion expressed and suggest we leave it there. It was not my intention to cause disharmony. We are all model train enthusiasts and am sure we would all be good friends face to face, so lets not get too serious about it. I was asked to take close up photos by Fran and Stephen so I spent quite a bit of time doing so yesterday. I think John Mayner summed up where I was coming from quite eloquently below. To put things in perspective mass produced injected models like the MM Cravens are incredibly cheap because they sell in 1000s rather than the 50 + units required to break even with hand finished resin cast model. A professionally assembled brass SSM or Worsley Works coach is likey to set the buyer back a min £250-300 the parts alone to build a brass coach will set you back around £70. The IFM rtr coaches are reasonably priced for what they are and ideal for a layout such as Noel's where the emphasis is on action, but totally unsuitable for a fine scale layout such as Advavoyle or Valencia Harbour where models are viewed up close. I will avoid posting on these models again Lets be modelling pals Good night all Quote
jhb171achill Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Well said, Noel; to go to your original point, I think your weathering looks great! Nite...... Quote
GSR 800 Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 I have to say I agree with this entirely. The model world is for all - engineering perfection is for some, accurate appearance for others, smaller budget for others, absolute perfection in all regards for some of us who can afford it. This is an excellent forum where as long as I've been reading it everybody has happily bumbled along merrily together. There will be few products from any manufacturer which suits everyone's standards and budgets. Personally, I salute IFM for satisfying the market they do, also others for the different emphases they place on their projects. Anyone who enters what (read post above) is undoubtedly an extremely difficult commercial market is to be lauded. Leslie's wagons, Garfield's bubbles, and others here will all agree; not easy to produce. So - IFM - certainly, for some people but not all, but hats off for what they do. That's just my bit. Over'n'out. They should put Peacemaker under Founding Father Although then people might suspect that IRM has to turned into a Mafia of Railway Enthusiasts.... Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Well, this conversation has escalated quickly! Can we keep things respectful please folks? Condescending attitudes and backseat modding are not welcome. So, please keep it civil and if everyone can play by the rules we can leave it open. Thanks! Quote
Glover Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 The Park Royal coaches are a key element on any Irish model railway from the mid/late 1950s to......( I've forgotten when they went out of service!). I have always wanted some of them but they are a difficult coach to model. The Worsley Works sides and ends are a possibility but they require a lot of work ( I've built two of their coaches). Scratch building coaches is a pain; done that too. Therefore, the Irish Freight Models Park Royals represented a realistic route to achieving my wishes. Buy them as kits (very easy to assemble) and paint them. This is modelled as the mainline variant, with toilet. Paintwork is slightly grubby; my model is set in 1963, so this coach would have been well due for a repaint into the then new 'black and tan' livery, as below. This is the suburban version with seating in the flat sided vestibule end sections. I'm well pleased. Glover Quote
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