Thought for the Day

[GNRi1959]

How many folk here, would honestly build an N gauge layout, if there were a wide selection of ready-to-run locos available off the shelf.....

S Class - U - UG - SG3

and wagons of every description.

Show of hands, be honest!

[BosKonay]

If there were a small range of locos and wagons I would. But then I’d say the same for O

[GNRi1959]

4 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

If there were a small range of locos and wagons I would. But then I’d say the same for O

Space permitting

[jhb171achill]

Me, definitely. Scratch building in that scale needs a VERY fine and highly skilled modelling background, so for me, there would have to be a good and broad range of RTR stuff.

[David Holman]

As a way of modelling wide open spaces, scale length trains etc, N gauge is great. However, 2mm finescale looks and works a whole lot better, so would hope that any RTR stuff would be capable of conversion to 10.25mm gauge. If so, I could be very tempted. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

[Noel]

Aside from the lack of any Irish RTR stock, another possible issue for some who wish to shunt and operate prototypical low speed movements is the reliability and smoothness of N gauge locos, and the relative light weight of wagons making coupling unpredictable (e.g. Wagon pushed before couplings engage, or inverse when backing over uncoupler). I know N gauge loco motoring and gearing have come a long way in the past 20 years, but not quiet as shuntable as OO/4mm nor the supreme gauge for prototypical shunting - O gauge with its heavier rolling stock less likely to bounce like a pin ball. 

If I was interested in stock that suited continuous circuit operations then I would be seriously tempted by N gauge. My ultimate dream might be an O gauge GWR pannier tank and a handful of Dapol wagons on a 10-12ft end to end shunting layout. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Noel

[PaulC]

A well made n gauge layout looks terrific with prototypical length trains but I just can't get used to the scale of it myself. For me, it's too small, detail is lost in the scenics and I think the track looks overscaled against the locos and stock. Having said that, you look at the likes of Copenhagen Fields and the scope you have to create a protypical or fictitious town round the railway makes the whole medium very tempting, if you can get past the negative aspects. 

 

Paul

[GNRi1959]

The biggest drawback I find is that it does sometimes have that 'toy' look to it.

[jhb171achill]

9 minutes ago, GNRi1959 said:

The biggest drawback I find is that it does sometimes have that 'toy' look to it.

Yes, me too. It's the track - way overscale.

[Noel]

45 minutes ago, GNRi1959 said:

The biggest drawback I find is that it does sometimes have that 'toy' look to it.

Some of the great N gauge layouts that have emanated from WMRC in recent years defy that by a few hundred country kilometres.   Done well due to the possibility of more prototypical radius curves and train lengths N gauge can look stunning especially by scenic masters. I was blown away by the authentic realism of some of @Irishrailwayman N gauge layouts. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Noel

[GNRi1959]

51 minutes ago, Noel said:

Some of the great N gauge layouts that have emanated from WMRC in recent years defy that by a few hundred country kilometres.   Done well due to the possibility of more prototypical radius curves and train lengths N gauge can look stunning especially by scenic masters. I was blown away by the authentic realism of some of @Irishrailwayman N gauge layouts. 

I agree, met the man himself in Enniskillen - loved his cracking layout 'Llangollen'.

 

[Noel]

1 hour ago, GNRi1959 said:

I agree, met the man himself in Enniskillen - loved his cracking layout 'Llangollen'.

 

If modelling British outline N gauge has a lot to offer, but very limited IMHO for an Irish layout due to lack of RTR rolling stock, or even stock that's easy to convert.

[Irishrailwayman]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, me too. It's the track - way overscale.

I use Code 55 as opposed to the more common Code 80 Peco N gauge track. With careful ballasting this can look well enough without being oversized.

I suppose the overall challenge for any railway modeller is to convert "toy trains" into something that looks "real". One way I have attempted this is to model real locations and represent them with carefully selected kit built model buildings etc using subtle colours. Modern HD camera 'phones provide a good way of testing if the effects achieved are real.

I have posted photo sequences on this forum of the building of each of my layouts and as they progress, I can see at some point how they cease to look like a collection of model items on a board and begin to cohere as a believable scene (my current build Llauwchllyn is approaching this point I hope!). Many people have commented favourably on my results which I appreciate and I am always happy to share how/what I do with them.

[Mayner]

I 

On 1/7/2018 at 12:18 AM, GNRi1959 said:

How many folk here, would honestly build an N gauge layout, if there were a wide selection of ready-to-run locos available off the shelf.....

 

Show of hands, be honest!

I certainly did when I took up modelling American outline N about 30 years ago.   I still have a large collection of N Scale locos and stock despite upscaling to G Scale 11 years ago.

I would certainly recommend N for an American or Continental layout as the models are better proportioned than British N Gauge which has a similar narrow gauge look to OO as the British models are built to a slightly larger scale than everyone else. One of the big differences between American and British outline modelling is that American modelers try to model a section of railroad with a number of stations or yards, while British and Irish outline modelers with few exceptions tend to model one station which makes N Scale an attractive proposition in small to medium sized spaces..

The main advantage was being able to build a reasonable layout capable of running long freight trains in a 17X8' attic something that could not be achieved in a similar space in OO or HO.

The Japanese built Kato, Atlas & Minitrix diesel locos were reasonably priced, finely detailed and better runners than anything available in OO up to about 10-15 years ago.

 

[chris]

If you could get Murphy or IRM standard RTR N scale stuff I'd be all over it. Already have some Swiss N and it's great. The layout scale in the same space would be such a plus.

 

[skinner75]

40 minutes ago, chris said:

If you could get Murphy or IRM standard RTR N scale stuff I'd be all over it. Already have some Swiss N and it's great. The layout scale in the same space would be such a plus.

 

Me too - the appeal of long runs, or a large depot etc would be possible in N with the space most of us have available, unlike OO.

[GNRi1959]

If I ever decided to go N, I wouldn't be depending on anyone. I would be simply making a lot of concessions and enjoying it.

[Georgeconna]

N would be class given the length of Irish Rail Trains these recently. no brainer. Not many have space for a full rake of Mk.3 and a 201

@Noel, Dreams can come true Noel, Dapol has brought the costs down on the locos considerably. The Rolling stock prices give me the shudders though.

 

 

[GNRi1959]

8 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

N would be class given the length of Irish Rail Trains these recently. no brainer. Not many have space for a full rake of Mk.3 and a 201

 

George, heres an excellent example in N of those long trains you pine for, courtesy of our friends at the Gauge Forum. You should come over for a peep........

 

[Georgeconna]

Been there done that M8  Still have my N gauge Stuff as the quality was Excellent. It was the sound that drew me into OO plus he availability of a lot my different locos.

[Irishrailwayman]

9 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

N would be class given the length of Irish Rail Trains these recently. no brainer. Not many have space for a full rake of Mk.3 and a 201

@Noel, Dreams can come true Noel, Dapol has brought the costs down on the locos considerably. The Rolling stock prices give me the shudders though.

 

 

Anyone tempted to try N gauge Irish using Electra Railway Graphics (http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk/) vinyl overlays on Graham Farish coaches (MK1, MK2, MK3, MK4, EGVs, 201 etc available); Shapeways bodies for 201, 121, 141, 181, 071, A/C Class etc; Studio Scale Models 2mm Irish transfers on repainted UK steam locos/wagons; Alphagraphix 4mm kits colour copied in 50%reduction etc?

For example, the GWR Express Parcels below was made from an ERG vinyl overlay on an old GWR Railcar and both models were given a new chassis:

[Georgeconna]

Heres a couple more, Great scale to model, Miss this little Layout, It was turned into a Window exhibition cover with snow and now is in good hands and being renovated I believe.

 

Heres a few more:

[Irishrailwayman]

9 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

N would be class given the length of Irish Rail Trains these recently. no brainer. Not many have space for a full rake of Mk.3 and a 201

@Noel, Dreams can come true Noel, Dapol has brought the costs down on the locos considerably. The Rolling stock prices give me the shudders though.

 

 

Re. Dreams - if you confine yourself to O gauge Goods Wagons these work out around £40 each (less for kits) and you only need a half dozen or so. BR outline could be shuffled around with a Dapol 08 or Terrier/Pannier. and GWR with a suitably liveried Pannier. Carriages are a bit more expensive although Lion Heart are doing BR MK1s soon for £199 and Tower Models have the Dapol Autocoach for £170...

[Georgeconna]

LOL, just started my one!. Just bought me a Southern Railway O Gauge Terrier with  Zimo Unlimited Software MX644 decoder for £165 a few minutes ago. Sweet! now for a few kits to make.

Now if Hattons make a Battle of Britain Loco for £750 I'm sorted!!

 

[Noel]

9 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

LOL, just started my one!. Just bought me a Southern Railway O Gauge Terrier with  Zimo Unlimited Software MX644 decoder for £165 a few minutes ago. Sweet! now for a few kits to make.

Now if Hattons make a Battle of Britain Loco for £750 I'm sorted!!

 

Well done for making the leap.  Enjoy

PS: Re long trains, if modelling a branch line, Irish or BR, even branch trains operating across or off main lines, trains need no more than one or two coaches, nor goods trains more than a few 4 axle wagons and a brake van. 

[Dave]

On 07/01/2018 at 9:45 AM, Noel said:

Aside from the lack of any Irish RTR stock, another possible issue for some who wish to shunt and operate prototypical low speed movements is the reliability and smoothness of N gauge locos, and the relative light weight of wagons making coupling unpredictable (e.g. Wagon pushed before couplings engage, or inverse when backing over uncoupler). I know N gauge loco motoring and gearing have come a long way in the past 20 years, but not quiet as shuntable as OO/4mm nor the supreme gauge for prototypical shunting - O gauge with its heavier rolling stock less likely to bounce like a pin ball. 

If I was interested in stock that suited continuous circuit operations then I would be seriously tempted by N gauge. My ultimate dream might be an O gauge GWR pannier tank and a handful of Dapol wagons on a 10-12ft end to end shunting layout. 

Sorry Noel, but N gauge modern locos are capable of super smooth running and very slow running. Wagons can be uncoupled with ease and once weighted properly you can shunt just as easily as OO.

I model N scale American outline and have quite a few Kato locos. The quality is incredible and they run beautifully.

Regarding track, code 55 looks a lot better than the chunky code 80. 

Here's some pics of an N gauge layout that I did for a client, track is painted in sleeper grime and then ballasted. 

[Georgeconna]

I concur , the new Graham Farish stuff is unreal, I have a class 37 and wow does that crawl, Dapol class 73, Hymek, Q1, Terrier and Ivatt Tank, All Beauty's.

[jhb171achill]

If I went into N, those Ivatt tanks alone would tempt me towards the railways of the People's Republic of Brexit......

I'm probably in a minority here, but I thought that the BR standard designs of the 1950s were very attractive.

Did yiz know; the BR designs owe at least something to Inchicore.

In the dying days of jhb171VerySenior's time at Inchicore (he retired in January 1945, 2 weeks into CIE), a deputation of LMS engineers were received as visitors. Seniorx2 himself had been with GSR delegations during his career, to Dahhby, (in Dahhbyshaaa in Brexitland) and also Dundalk and York Road. It would be an exaggeration by far to say that they spent their time on "jollies" like nowadays, but occasionally visits were made to discuss engineering and locomotive design matters of mutual importance.

The LMS visit set the tone for several more visits in the late 40s and early 50s, when BR engineers from all four constituent companies were putting their heads together to come up with what would become the BR "standard" designs. I was told that several features used routinely by Inchicore were, as a result, incorporated into the BR designs. Unfortunately I don't know what they were, though I think that there was something to do with cab layout as one.

 

[heirflick]

For me lads I'd stick with 1:76 - in years to come 'twould be difficult to do handle the N stuff not to mention seeing the detail !

[GNRi1959]

As much as I like N, I'm planning on buying all my Code 75 at the end of the month. 

[Mayner]

I used Peco Code 55 track ballasted with Woodlands Scenics fine ballast on a modular layout in the attic of my house in Dublin about 20 years ago. The modules were all 12' wide including the yard and loco depot section. The yard and loco section was successfully transhipped to New Zealand and incorporated for a short time into a larger permanent layout in Auckland. Unfortunately the layout did not get beyond the baseboard and laying the main line as we moved to Hamilton 12 months later where the great outdoors and a large scale layout beckoned

These days I would probably use Atlas Code 55 track, its easier to work with and the switches (points) are a more accurate/realistic geometry than Peco. Trains of 15-20 cars were typically headed by consists of 2-4 locos depending on type, all locos and stock were fitted with  Microtrain (Kadee N Scale) couplers. 55 car trains were about the maximum that could be hauled reliably with truck mounted couplers, before they started parting with a rather loud bang leaving most of the train stranded.

[Georgeconna]

Well last Friday a big box arrived from Ellis Clark Trains. Inside my pet Terrier 2644 in Southern livery I was looking for this one for ages. All excited to unwrap it there and then but left it to Saturday as I was knackered.  Come Saturday a little bit of Track was laid along , about 10ft long with a point for a siding and connected up to the DCC System.

Well I never!!. The chip was a sound one so for the nice sum of £165 I cobbled a normally £350-410 model and what a beauty, Running qualities are only Exquisite, the sound is Fab, Just could sit back and listen to it pop and hiss all day long. The track looks the dogs too not like the OO stuff.

Now to get a few Wagons for a bit of shunting. A beautiful scale to enjoy and handle!. I'm smitten.....Bargain of the year!

Cheers

G

 

[murrayec]

Hi

Talking about Gauge N Irish, take a look here;-

 

Eoin