WESTRAIL

[Lambeg man]

I visited Ireland in the autumn of 1990. We traveled by hire car around most of the island (but not into Northern Ireland), visiting numerous railway locations, past and present. What follows are a series of photographs taken on an evening at Mallow station when the GSRPS was in residence. I went up the platform Inspector and asked if I could walk over to the sidings where the stock was stored and he as much said "Go ahead, help yourself". There was no security and everything (apart from No. 131 which was in a shed) was just lying about in the open.

I will start with the crane that I think has already been mentioned.....

Then the 'G' class shunters mentioned....

 

Then one end of the ex-SLNCR Railcar 'B'....

Then the other end....

The interior....

And the driving console but from which end I can not recall......

And finally for this post, the ex-GNR 'D 3' Brake/Second with 'BUT' Railcar gangways fitted. This vehicle was rebuilt in 1923 as a Brake/Second. It performed as a trailer for the single 'BUT' Railcar operating the "Enniskillen Express" in 1957. It finished in the Cork Breakdown Train. "Fell asunder" to quote Norman Johnston, when moved to the Belturbet project.

 

More material to follow on a separate post.

 

[Lambeg man]

The saddest sight was that of No. 131....

The tender off a 'U' lying outside....

Close up of the maker's plate on the tender......

I can remember thinking as I took these photographs, why is this project not tied in with the RPSI - a spreading and therefore weakening of precious resources and expertise. As already listed so many preservation schemes in Ireland have failed because unlike in Britain there is not the impetus, talent and DEEP interest for railways (and consequentially the MARKET) nationwide for numerous alternative schemes.

On a happier note, over to JHB for the commentary for the next post............

Edited April 5, 2020 by Lambeg man

[Midland Man]

Ah the SLNCR rail car went everywhere from Sligo to Waterford to mallow to Inchicore.

[Lambeg man]

These last few pictures I have no idea what I was photographing.....

The grey six-wheelers are TWO different carriages.......... Over to you Jon as to what this lot are..........

Picture 1

 

Picture 2

 

Picture 3

 

Picture 4

 

Picture 5

 

Picture 6

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Lambeg man

[Midland Man]

Carriage looks midland.

[jhb171achill]

The six-wheeler (grey) is a Midland 3rd. The red one is an old Bredin or early CIE.

[Georgeconna]

Christ looks like a Scrap yards not to mind a preservation Society. Looks Like way too much taken on at one time not to mind processing Track Panels too at the same time.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

30 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

These last few pictures I have no idea what I was photographing.....

The grey six-wheelers are TWO different carriages.......... Over to you Jon as to what this lot are..........

Picture 1

Picture 2

 

 

I believe these are the two now at Downpatrick, under cover. If so, one was a second, the other a third, the same as 62M at Whitehead. Can't make out the numbers to tell which was which. Externally, they're similar anyway.

On the end of the 2nd class one at Downpatrick, you can see traces of the MGWR brown livery and also the very short-lived dark blue that a few Midland coaches had. (Never more than a few).

[Lambeg man]

In 1989 we did a Rover Rail ticket based in Dublin. On one day we made to Tralee where I took these two photographs of what I understood were Tralee-Fenit project carriages....

 

Over to JHB for comment.....

 

 

[jhb171achill]

I remember seeing those. I think they were Bredins or 1951/3 CIE stock. Very nicely finished, though they never got a chance to run properly like that - if at all. Pity.

Edited April 4, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Midland Man]

If the GSRPS had something like a J26 with 90 they would have been ground to work Fenit to Tralee.I think the reason we have preservation is because of Gunness as the triggerd a load of events that got the RPSI where they are today. The Thing I hate is we are going the same way about liverys as Britain and we are doing more UTA and CIE liverys. Why won't we have 184 in The livery It carried on the train from Broadstone to Palace east. Now that was a Livery.

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I remember seeing those. I think they were Bredins or 1951/3 CIE stock. Very nicely finished, though they never got a chance to run properly like that - if at all. Pity.

I one of the Tralee GSRPS coaches may survive at Dunsandle, both coaches appear to have been transferred to Tuam when attempts to re-open the Fenit line failed. They were 1951-3 CIE side corridor stock I saw them in Tralee in 89 & Tuam in 93.

I got a cab ride on E428 a visit to Tuam in July 1993. E428 was shunting carriages into the carriage shed following maintenance, No 90 was waiting for a new boiler to arrive from the UK.

Ex GSWR 10T goods brake & MGWR? ballast wagon.

 

 

The yard was disconnected from the main line and the yard abandoned when I next visited Tuam in 1996 though both the carriage and loco shed were still secure.

While the efforts of both Westrail and the GSRPS were largely frustrated much of the rolling stock that was passed to the RPSI, DCDR and survives at Dunsandle would otherwise have been scapped when CIE disposed of redundant rolling stock in the early 1980s.

While the GSRPS may appear to have been over ambitious in attempting to overhaul No131 acquiring a large fleet of carriages and attempting to re-open the Fenit branch, this was a once in a lifetime opportunity in terms of setting up a excursion train operation in Munster, Fenit was an ideal site for establishing and maintaining a tourist railway operation. Like Westrail the GSRPS evolved out of a attempts to preserve a disused CIE branch line in this case Cork-Youghal.  The 1973 McKinsey Consulting Report on CIE had recommended that a preservation society take over operation of the Summer Sunday seaside excursions trains from CIE, the RPSI had recently started operating the Portrush Flyer excursions setting a precedent for an enthusiast society operating excursion regular excursion trains on the railway system.

 

[jhb171achill]

It could have saved either Fenit or Youghal from the dreaded “Greenway Syndrome”......

................................................................

Stranorlar, 1945.

A mixed train comes in from Glenties.

Now, look closer. Look at the van behind the railcar trailer. It is very like a Clogher Valley or Leitrim design - but WHAT IS IT?  I have never seen a picture of any such type anywhere in Donegal.

(H C A Beaumont Collection)

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by jhb171achill

[minister_for_hardship]

Didn't a Dublin & Blessington vehicle end up as an unpowered trailer on the Donegal? 

Just copped the reference was to the wagon behind it. It's an odd one alright.

Edited April 5, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[minister_for_hardship]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It could have saved either Fenit or Youghal from the dreaded “Greenway Syndrome”......

................................................................

 

The Greenway fad is far easier than preservation, free money to spend and someone else does all the work. All you need do is rock up with your push bike.

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It could have saved either Fenit or Youghal from the dreaded “Greenway Syndrome”......

................................................................

Stranorlar, 1945.

A mixed train comes in from Glenties.

Now, look closer. Look at the van behind the railcar trailer. It is very like a Clogher Valley or Leitrim design - but WHAT IS IT?  I have never seen a picture of any such type anywhere in Donegal.

(H C A Beaumont Collection)

 

18

It sure looks like a CVR guards van! I have to build one to go with my CVR coaches and horsebox.

The Donegal bought "5 small vans"  & "18 five ton wagons" *along with Railcar 10, "The Unit"(-engine) and other items at an in 1942 auction following the closure of the CVR. The CVR wagons appear to have been rebuilt as vans and listed as "Red Wagons"* for use with the diesel railcars.  (* E M Paterson County Donegal Railway & Clogher Valley Railway. The GSR and possibly Irish Turf Board were also present at the auction, the C&L acquired a number of covered and open wagons.

[Irishswissernie]

 

Put this on jhb's other thread on this photo

Desmond Coakham photographed a CVR passenger brake van at Strabane (Narrow Gauge Rolling Stock Page 64 top photo) in 1947, which he says did not appear in any writings on either line. numbered 14. Looks very similar.

[Irishswissernie]

Found another view 28 May 1947 on a Letterkenny service. I have uploaded a small part of the print which is not my copyright. I will of course remove it if the copyright holder (whoever that may be) requests me to. Photographer J G Dewing.

Ernie

Edited April 5, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[burnthebox]

Hi guys, on a side note, can anyone tell me are those Flying Snails going in the right direction....TIA

BTB 

[Midland Man]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It could have saved either Fenit or Youghal from the dreaded “Greenway Syndrome”......

................................................................

Stranorlar, 1945.

A mixed train comes in from Glenties.

Now, look closer. Look at the van behind the railcar trailer. It is very like a Clogher Valley or Leitrim design - but WHAT IS IT?  I have never seen a picture of any such type anywhere in Donegal.

(H C A Beaumont Collection)

 

When Mullingar to Athlone was turned into a greenway I was the only one protesting.I said a rail link would be better but I was to young to be listened to!

[airfixfan]

The CVR had 6 brake/luggage Van's built in 1886 with 5 left in service by 1941. They were 14 feet long and appear to be the same small Van's bought at auction in 1942 by the CDR. There is a good photo of 1 of these brake Van's on page 155 of the revised Clogher Valley book. Even Michael Bunch and Sam Carse appears to have missed them also. Finally the Foyle Valley stopped running in 2000 not 2015 and the closed Museum has CDR red van 19 an ex CVR  vehicle.

Edited April 5, 2020 by airfixfan

[DERAILED]

12 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Christ looks like a Scrap yards not to mind a preservation Society. Looks Like way too much taken on at one time not to mind processing Track Panels too at the same time.

 

 

At the time these photographs were taken Mallow had indeed begun to resemble a scrapyard as the GSRPS turned in on itself due to difficulties in their dealings with CIE. It need not have been the case and was a sad and expensive lesson for those of us involved. As for all the stock; much of it survives today and would have long ago been scrapped if it were not for the actions of the GSRPS.

This is how it could have been had we not been forced to accept Fenit instead of Youghal.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DERAILED

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

The CVR had 6 brake/luggage Van's built in 1886 with 5 left in service by 1941. They were 14 feet long and appear to be the same small Van's bought at auction in 1942 by the CDR. There is a good photo of 1 of these brake Van's on page 155 of the revised Clogher Valley book. Even Michael Bunch and Sam Carse appears to have missed them also. Finally the Foyle Valley stopped running in 2000 not 2015 and the closed Museum has CDR red van 19 an ex CVR  vehicle.

It is of that design all right.  
 

The sale to the CDR is something I had been unaware of, though he red vans, railcar, etc., and other stuff is well-documented (and photographed). This requires research!

Given its camera-shyness, it can’t  have been used much, nor lasted long.

4 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Didn't a Dublin & Blessington vehicle end up as an unpowered trailer on the Donegal? 

Just copped the reference was to the wagon behind it. It's an odd one alright.

Yes, it did, and their double-ended railcar ended up there too, and it’s now in Cultra.

[jhb171achill]

32 minutes ago, burnthebox said:

Hi guys, on a side note, can anyone tell me are those Flying Snails going in the right direction....TIA

BTB 

Yes.

The rule is always left hand side, wings “upper”, right hand wings “lower”.

Except for driver’s side ONLY on steam loco tenders and toad vehicles. Never on diesels, carriages or wagons.

[Georgeconna]

1 hour ago, DERAILED said:

At the time these photographs were taken Mallow had indeed begun to resemble a scrapyard as the GSRPS turned in on itself due to difficulties in their dealings with CIE. It need not have been the case and was a sad and expensive lesson for those of us involved. As for all the stock; much of it survives today and would have long ago been scrapped if it were not for the actions of the GSRPS.

This is how it could have been had we not been forced to accept Fenit instead of Youghal.

 

The only time I got to travel to youghal by Train

that was a fab day!

 

 

[burnthebox]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

47 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

 

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

So what’s the situation here.....

Edited April 5, 2020 by burnthebox

[jhb171achill]

Regarding the “snails”?

Both green shades, lining details, black ends and roof - 100% accurate.

Snails - correct 100%, though they should be a little further away from the end doors.

Think of the device as a circle with “wings” either side of it. For ALL carriages, diesel locos and wagons, think “LURL”

Left hand side -

- Upper side for “wings”.

Right hand side -

- Lower side for “wings”.

[Lambeg man]

Some more pictures from 1990 to give an indication of the size of the task facing the GSRPS 'Fenit' project...

A part of the branch, with track entirely removed...

I think this was Kilfenora crossing (I may be wrong), but the track obviously still in place...

Fenit station itself with track still in situ...

Not sure if this shunter was GSRPS property. It was a not a CIE loco. Irish Sugar perhaps?..

View north from Rock Street level crossing in Tralee...

View south from the same level crossing. Note that nearly ALL the trackwork from the North Kerry Yard is gone. 

[StevieB]

They obviously never considered a standalone railway centre like at Quainton Road or Chappel and Wakes Colne, both of which survive without a mainline connection despite their close proximity.

Stephen

[irishrail201]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:22 PM, DiveController said:

It's a sad fact of life that railway heritage railways seems to be harder to sustain in Ireland than some other areas, hence the financial issues. Some external factor outlined above certainly didn't help either.

The Tralee and Blennerville Railway closed in 2006.
 

 

The blennerville line closed in around 2009, they borrowed Jackie Whelan's loco, but it derailed. They had no equipment to jack it. As a result they had to bring in a heavy crane! They had't and still don't have a clue. I tried to help out get it going again back in 2015/2016 and there was quite a bit of interest and looked like we were going somewhere, I had a loco secured for the revival, after a few meetings with the Council I realised the project was doomed. I then moved onto Stradbally and now am involved in Dromod. Both open railways that need more people and resources.

The main problems with Blennerville were the lack of enthusiasm, there was no voluntary arm or society. It was a FAS gang with no strategy. Also no diesel loco to take on quieter periods or take over from 5T. Out of all the lines in Ireland the blennerville line goes from somewhere to somewhere and has high tourism potential, the line had 40,000 passengers in its first year. Also if you know where to look you could create a vintage train. Just with the Council in the way (one individual) nothing will happen.

[K801]

What still exists in Fenit?

[Midland Man]

Nothing 

It was a mess in 60s so in 50 years  it would be a mess

[minister_for_hardship]

9 hours ago, K801 said:

What still exists in Fenit?

A platform, a signal and a footbridge. The rails in the station area were lifted years ago, now the rest is being lifted. The branch is to become yet another greenway although the virus has possibly stalled that.

There was talk to make it dual gauge and run 5T there in GSRPS days. 5T went to the Blennerville and everyone knows the rest of that story.

Edited April 6, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, irishrail201 said:

 

The blennerville line closed in around 2009, they borrowed Jackie Whelan's loco, but it derailed. They had no equipment to jack it. As a result they had to bring in a heavy crane! They had't and still don't have a clue. I tried to help out get it going again back in 2015/2016 and there was quite a bit of interest and looked like we were going somewhere, I had a loco secured for the revival, after a few meetings with the Council I realised the project was doomed. I then moved onto Stradbally and now am involved in Dromod. Both open railways that need more people and resources.

The main problems with Blennerville were the lack of enthusiasm, there was no voluntary arm or society. It was a FAS gang with no strategy. Also no diesel loco to take on quieter periods or take over from 5T. Out of all the lines in Ireland the blennerville line goes from somewhere to somewhere and has high tourism potential, the line had 40,000 passengers in its first year. Also if you know where to look you could create a vintage train. Just with the Council in the way (one individual) nothing will happen.

Yes, and the local gombeen man councillor needs to be named and shamed, as it was he who personally destroyed the chances of a voluntary body.

I won’t name him here, but it’s easy to find out who he is.

[minister_for_hardship]

18 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, and the local gombeen man councillor needs to be named and shamed, as it was he who personally destroyed the chances of a voluntary body.

I won’t name him here, but it’s easy to find out who he is.

Some people are beyond shaming, it hardly matters when most locals may not care whether or not they have a steam railway. If locals are indifferent you can forget about help, volunteers or putting on political pressure from that quarter.