If you could choose only one? Just for fun a hypothetical short survey

[Noel]

Just for fun a hypothetical short survey. Its open until Saturday. Will post results then. Feel free to not respond. Apologies as its a bit CIE era and ROI centric and apologies if obvious items have been omitted.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5VMJWSX

[Westcorkrailway]

If it gets enough responses it could be a genuinely useful survey that also may settle some debates

[murphaph]

Done

Really only takes a minute.

[Westcorkrailway]

26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Done

Really only takes a minute.

And could be really handy even to IRM. Cant wait to see what people are choosing...(i assume a lot of people wanting re runs of the 141s and 071s)

[DJ Dangerous]

Massive flaw with your survey...

I couldn't see the "All" button for re-runs!

[Westcorkrailway]

3 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Massive flaw with your survey...

I couldn't see the "All" button for re-runs!

Hypothetically the entire survey could be answered with "all if the above"

[Dempsey]

Done

[Noel]

Some interesting and unexpected patterns emerging already. Will post results at the weekend. Thanks to anybody who completed the brief survey.

[Old Blarney]

Noel,

My choice for an Irish Oil Wagon would be MEX. This brand name really does represent an Irish Company; Mc Mullan Bros. They celebrating their Centenary as a Limited Company during 2020.  Now, branded as MAXOL their locations are found throughout Ireland. "The formal registration of McMullan Bros Ltd on 12th April,1920 came as a direct consequence of a brilliant scoop by William McMullan when he persuaded the Anglo-Mexican Petroleum Company to give his company the exclusive agency to sell MEX Petroleum in Ireland." (Text in quotes taken from - MAXOL - Celebrating 100 Years -Turtle Bunbury.  ISBN 978-1-5272-5850-1

[CFD]

Good survey.....even if I did have to google most of the lists to see exactly what they were...!! 

[leslie10646]

Come off it, Noel - I offer most of the obvious goods wagons as kits - am I going to vote, like a turkey, for an early Christmas?

However, to support a good customer, I've filled it in!

Like the Lord of Blarney, I'll take a tank wagon - I don't do those - everything else (that I don't make) was after 1970 and so of little interest.

Laminates would be nice on the coach front and help make up a CIE passenger train, whether behind an early diesel, or a steam loco.

and obviously a J15 (even if I have two already and am modelling the GNR). I haven't commented on the "which steam loco" thread, because I don't see it happening - even IRM can't believe they can sell thousands of an Irish steam loco? If they do, then the J15 is the obvious choice - yet when it was offered by 00 Works (yes, I know it wasn't cheap, or perfect) it barely sold, not even a tenth of what IRM would be looking for.

Like others on this forum, I have supported most of the endeavours of my fellow producers (just ask "The Lads") and will continue to do so, if only to encourage a worthwhile hobby which has brought me and others a lot of enjoyment over the years.

I want the people - now growing up / yet unborn - to be able to enjoy much more than was possible when I was growing up.

Time for bed - I have wagons to send to the USA in the morning .....

Sleep well and keep even better

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

.............. - everything else (that I don't make) was after 1970 and so of little interest.

 

Ah! A breath of steam air! Me too.......

Some of the young'uns here will be appalled at the likes of you and I seeing an 071 or an 80 class as "too modern to be of interest"!

[mmie353]

Lol I wish I could have picked a couple of more for the re-run question.. 

[Noel]

As promised Survey Results here - click PDF link:Survey2021.pdf(110 respondents)

Thanks to those who participated and completed the survey on here and on the FaceBook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/318749555716842

Q1 - If you could choose one new Irish RTR model would it be a?

 

Q2 - If you could choose a single goods/fright wagon?

Q3 - If you could choose a single locomotive?

Q4 - If you could choose a single passenger stock item?

Q5 - If you could choose a single RTR line to be re-run?

Edited February 6, 2021 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

Interesting! Thank you!

[Ironroad]

Very Interesting results;

Definitely makes the case for  Anhydrous Ammonia Tankers and the vote a CIE guards van augers Well for the forthcoming release from Mayner.

Given the choice of locos,  7 diesels versus 2 steamers, the steamers scored 35%.  Including a jeep in the choices might have edged the steamers up a lot more, that's really food for thought.

And despite the strong support for more modern coaching stock, it should be noted that Park Royals, Laminates, CIE GSV and AEC 2600 rail cars combined secured 40% of the vote.

So maybe there is more support for the period 1950 - 1970 than many assume.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Ironroad
typo

[DJ Dangerous]

More 071's and 141's on the way with Mk3 and Mk4 coaching stock, yay!

Passenger stock for the win!!!

[Dempsey]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

More 071's and 141's on the way with Mk3 and Mk4 coaching stock, yay!

Passenger stock for the win!!!

Definitely agree about the 071s. I'd only happily give a few more a good home if I could. 

[DJ Dangerous]

Just now, Dempsey said:

Definitely agree about the 071s. I'd only happily give a few more a good home if I could. 

Try Chris Dyer.

Chris often finds little gems and they don't hang around long when he does.

 

11 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

And despite the strong support for more modern coaching stock, it should be noted that Park Royals, Laminates, CIE GSV and AEC 2600 rail cars combined secured 40% of the vote.

So maybe there is more support for the period 1950 - 1970 than many assume.

Don't forget that some of the classic coaching stock ran until the nineties, so we're talking fifties to nineties, not just fifties to seventies.

[Ironroad]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

 

Don't forget that some of the classic coaching stock ran until the nineties, so we're talking fifties to nineties, not just fifties to seventies.

Absolutely

[DJ Dangerous]

8 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Absolutely

Parallel to the iminent A Class, funnily enough!

[Ironroad]

And in a lot of liveries

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Ironroad said:

And in a lot of liveries

For laminates or Park Royals, actually just three for some and two for others.

The earlier ones built in 1955/6 were unpainted ("silver") at first, then green - though later ones were green from the start. From late 1962 reprinting in black'n'tan started, and that was that! That livery was extraordinarily long lived on those vehicles, from early 60s to late 80s.

Of course, vehicles built before 1955 or so, including all wooden vehicles, were previously the darker lined green, and GSR maroon before that.

[Westcorkrailway]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

As promised Survey Results here - click PDF link:Survey2021.pdf(110 respondents)

Thanks to those who participated and completed the survey on here and on the FaceBook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/318749555716842

Q1 - If you could choose one new Irish RTR model would it be a?

 

Q2 - If you could choose a single goods/fright wagon?

Q3 - If you could choose a single locomotive?

Q4 - If you could choose a single passenger stock item?

Q5 - If you could choose a single RTR line to be re-run?

Within realisim, I think its fair to assume we will be seeing a C class soon enough. Maybe even the next loco release in a few years especially with that long working life that appeals to a lot of modelers...which is great to see

 

Its also fair to see that people want full sets of coaching stock from mark 3s, mark 4s and the enterprise sets. Personally id be excited for the mark 4 EGV, just love the look of them. But personally it would make sense to release laminates and/or park royals first (for me they would be priority after the A class release but thats just me)

 

As for the freight models, the brakevan almost ran away with it witch is is great as thats being developed by JM design RTR as we speak! Amonia wagons being the next big freight item. I think we will have to wait to see those come out but who knows..

 

Re-runs not surprising that its a tie between the 141/181 and the 071....interesting that i never noticed before but the pole option is just an 071 in grey! Never mind the rest of the liveries so 071s in general would probobly be the favurite for re runs (shame as i could do with a few Black and Tan 141s) 

However if the pole used Proportional voting (people choose the favourite to least favourite in terms of preference) the pole would be more helpful to figuring out what to release next....but to be fair this pole does a great job at showing peoples favurites!

3 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Given the choice of locos,  7 diesels versus 2 steamers, the steamers scored 35%.  Including a jeep in the choices might have edged the steamers up a lot more, that's really food for thought.

 

It is interesting. I think a GNR engine like merlin would have been an interesting spanner to throw into the mix but you can't fit them all...

 

 

[murphaph]

Thanks for doing the poll Noel.

I find the baby GM rerun demand particularly interesting. I voted for those too but didn't think many would but there's something about them that people just love.

121s are great but to prototypically run them in most liveries on an end to end layout you need to either turn them or run in consist. Babies don't have this problem.

As for the steam question....I also voted for a diesel there because there was no preserved steam option. I would have voted for that if available and readily convertible to 21mm (I'm sure inside cylinder models can't be that much more difficult than diesels to regauge).

I voted for "more freight stock" because in my era of the mid nineties UK prototype stock is widely available to modify and respray. The freight stock is more or less unique to Ireland, hence my desire to see more of that first, however if I had to choose passenger stock I'd pick Park Royals as they were still running in my era and are not available as resprayed GB stock.

 

[StevieB]

We’ll have to hope that IRM’s next diesel is the C class, and that they follow Accurascale and produce their first steam loco the J15 class.

Stephen

[Noel]

Yes cheers guys. They only thing that jumped out at me is folk seem to want more coaching stock to run behind all the new and existing locos they have.

[DJ Dangerous]

Yeah, we're starved for RTR passenger stock at the moment.

Park Royals cover the whole life of the A Class, from the fifties until the nineties, so would be great for many folk.

I'm pleasantly surprised at the demand for the trains of today! The most modern era is the one that fascinates me the most, but I don't see many here on the forum talk about it.

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Yeah, we're starved for RTR passenger stock at the moment.

Park Royals cover the whole life of the A Class, from the fifties until the nineties, so would be great for many folk.

Indeed and so do laminates - a MUCH neglected species, despite various iterations making up the MAJORITY of ALL coaching stock in the 1960s and 70s.

Obviously, cold hard finance must be the ONLY arbiter in what manufacturers produce, but within that criterion, it's a given that people will buy more locos of ANY kind, in ANY scale, of ANY prototype, if there's stock to pull.

If nobody had ever produced Cravens or Mk 2 / 3 types and their variants, and the prevailing opinion amongst manufacturers was that such a venture would be hopelessly unviable, I guarantee yiz that we'd have LESS 071s, 141s, 121s and 201s bought - those that were would be whirling round with inaccurate BR varieties, or just BR Mk 1s with LMS dining cars and Great Western horse boxes.

With the Hattons "Genesis" 6-wheelers, we see the British market for such vehicles apparently deemed to be sufficient for a RTR model. This is despite the fact that Britain got rid of these things from day to day use YEARS before WE did; we had them in regular traffic as late as 1963, and 1970 in the case of one full brake. I was speaking to someone in the trade over there who is of the opinion that this will boost sales of steam engine models of the (British) 1900-30 era. We may hope so - though the Irish market is not the same, of course.

There IS a dearth of rolling stock here. I'm not campaigning (yet again) for a six-wheeler model, but not just Park Royals, but at least a couple of varieties of laminate, plus possible a Bredin 1937 design, and CERTAINLY the very essential "tin vans" are a must.

And yes, these will suit ALL diesel types, PLUS the late steam era.

[DJ Dangerous]

7 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Indeed and so do laminates - a MUCH neglected species, despite various iterations making up the MAJORITY of ALL coaching stock in the 1960s and 70s.

Obviously, cold hard finance must be the ONLY arbiter in what manufacturers produce, but within that criterion, it's a given that people will buy more locos of ANY kind, in ANY scale, of ANY prototype, if there's stock to pull.

If nobody had ever produced Cravens or Mk 2 / 3 types and their variants, and the prevailing opinion amongst manufacturers was that such a venture would be hopelessly unviable, I guarantee yiz that we'd have LESS 071s, 141s, 121s and 201s bought - those that were would be whirling round with inaccurate BR varieties, or just BR Mk 1s with LMS dining cars and Great Western horse boxes.

With the Hattons "Genesis" 6-wheelers, we see the British market for such vehicles apparently deemed to be sufficient for a RTR model. This is despite the fact that Britain got rid of these things from day to day use YEARS before WE did; we had them in regular traffic as late as 1963, and 1970 in the case of one full brake. I was speaking to someone in the trade over there who is of the opinion that this will boost sales of steam engine models of the (British) 1900-30 era. We may hope so - though the Irish market is not the same, of course.

There IS a dearth of rolling stock here. I'm not campaigning (yet again) for a six-wheeler model, but not just Park Royals, but at least a couple of varieties of laminate, plus possible a Bredin 1937 design, and CERTAINLY the very essential "tin vans" are a must.

And yes, these will suit ALL diesel types, PLUS the late steam era.

Laminates were retired in the mid eighties, I think?

So they're ten years short of the golden years of Irish Railways in the mid nineties!

I'm sure that there was a wonderful thread in 2015 or 2016 on the pros and cons of the IFM laminates, which made the most interesting reading for a lurker, and encouraged me to avoid signing up to the forum for several years.

Either way, RTR Laminates are already out there, so it's time for Mk4's, then Mk3's and then Park Royals!

[Noel]

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Laminates were retired in the mid eighties, I think?

So they're ten years short of the golden years of Irish Railways in the mid nineties!

Ahem IMHO I thought 1960s early 1970s were the golden era before modern era uniform coaching stock and bogie freight removed all of the visual interest and operational diversity. Shunting loose coupled 2 axles wagons had a Rubik's come quality to it, and was a visual feast to watch it for real as well as an assault of the senses. Then in the naughties yo-yos removed the need for much of the track work, no more runarounds, marshalling, etc, instead a driver could just walk the length of the platform or train to change cab ends. The fisher price 22k sets seem as stirring to operate as marmite on a slice of brown toast.

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Either way, RTR Laminates are already out there, so it's time for Mk4's, then Mk3's and then Park Royals!

Well there is the choice of RTR laminates from IFM of which I have quite a few and very happy with them along with IFM Park Royal RTR and kits. For laminates there is also the option of JM design brass overlay kits for Dapol donor coaches. The IFM stuff was not inexpensive but more than passed the 'duck test' especially the park royals and look fab in a mixed rake with Cravens. 

One of the great things about the MM Cravens is it allowed one to mix and match a few of them with one or two IFM Park Royals or Laminates to make up the usual 1960s rake of coaches combined with a heating van of some kind unless it was summer. One can legitimately run an A class with a single craven and a tin van, or any variant of GSV for any branch working, or a pair of cravens and a heating van. I remember when the cravens were introduced they were considered the height of modernity and had soft curved lines at the ends as well as the massive width the Irish loading gauge allowed for. Gone were the flaky dynamo lighting that flickered and dimmed. Yes I suspect Mk3s might sell well, but most folk already seem to have a good stock of resprays, so perhaps Park Royals could be the big seller, given the A class due soon, and so many of the MM baby GM variants of the period. 

Personally I'd be happy with any Irish coaching stock pre-super train (eg PR, Lam, or AEC). The CIE 1974 modernisation programme wiped out the outdated but visually and operationally interesting goods wagon era with large yards and goods sheds in daily use at every station as manual handling was replaced by pallets, folk lift trucks, containerisation and uniform rakes. Nowadays there's hardly any freight left on rail, and innovative services like 'fastback' long gone, pre-dating copiers. On mainline trains you cannot even get cooked food anymore except the 1st and last cork trains of the day and some enterprise services. Back in the day you had a restaurant coach on most services to places like Wateford, Galway, Sligo, Kerry, now if your lucky is a trolly with shake'n'vac sandwiches, a tin of pop and a packet of crisps. Oh for fillet steak or full Irish on the Cork City Gold service. Progress will always happen. If I was a betting man and I'm not I'd put a half crown each way on mk3 or mk4s making it to RTR before too long as there are plenty of MM 071 and MM 201s they can run with. The long herald and much anticipated A classes may need some additional 60s and 70s coaching stock to haul as MM mk2d and MM Cravens are out of production and out of stock. Happy to sit back and wait to see what happens, I'm fortunate to have collected or kit bashed enough 1960s and 1970s coaching stock for my era, and even a rake of mk3 resprays, and a rake of mk4's to run with my sole 201 no 222. But no DVD yet, that is still on the cutting bench awaiting sculpting 

[leslie10646]

9 hours ago, Noel said:

Yes cheers guys. They only thing that jumped out at me is folk seem to want more coaching stock to run behind all the new and existing locos they have.

Those modelling anything pre air-conditioned era certainly have needed good RTR coaches for a long time, so it's patently plain where to go next (not that it's my money, of course!).

One advantage of being a septagenarian is that I've been building up my coaching stock for twenty years - Now I haven't got the space for any more - even the Cravens (which are super, thanks, Paddy) are in their boxes, along with the Lima air-conditioned stuff, the Green Staniers etc.

I do have three IFM Park Royals, which I rather like and they're still above board level with a 141 hauling them! (so I'm with Noel on that one).

I think that over twenty pieces of mahogany coaching stock is enough? All hand-made by a variety of master modellers known to this forum.  I counted my freight stock (that is GNR only) the other day and ran out of fingers / toes etc - again far more than I can accommodate. Time to finish relaying the track so that things run properly and get Portadown Roundhouse building BUILT!

Providing IRM produce something built before 1975, and non-airconditioned, they can be sure of a customer!

I think that the Golden Years of any railway were quite simply the ones which you personally enjoyed. Over sixty years, having travelled behind steam in two dozen countries and some 150,000 miles - it's hard to choose!  The diesels / electrics (Switzerland, especially, for the latter) were just a bonus.

Every day's a blessing and a golden gift, enjoy it while you can!

Leslie

Edited February 7, 2021 by leslie10646

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Ahem IMHO I thought 1960s early 1970s were the golden era

They were the black and white years, not the golden years.

[Noel]

Whatever comes in the future will be a bonus. The Irish models glass seems 75% full at this stage. 

[DSERetc]

19 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

and get Portadown Roundhouse building BUILT!

Leslie,

Perhaps, when you are building it, you can correct a big mistake in the original design.    For a young train spotter travelling from Dublin to Belfast, the one big disappointment of the journey was Portadown Roundhouse.    All we could see was the back wall.    You could place it so that passengers to and from Dublin may see the interesting engines inside

DSERetc