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JM Design Tin Van update

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Mayner
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I have basically finalised the design of the Heating/Luggage (Hot water bottle) and Luggage vans. I still have to finalise one or two details but the model is getting nearer to the production stage.

 

The original concept was for a simple to assemble model using "plug in" 3d printed detail parts for ease of assembly but the model has morphed back into a traditional brass kit.

 

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Sligo Mail 1958? the kits were inspired one of Francis Shuttleworth's photographs all thats needed is a MGWR TPO dating from the 1870s and a silver A Class

 

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Revised Heating Luggage Correct pattern W Irons all brass battery box and roof and gangway connections.

 

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Tin van Roof

 

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Luggage Brake Revised W Irons the interior is a separate 1 piece fold up with window bars, the roof is to be revised in brass.

 

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Bulleid Triangulated Underframe Solebars and W irons fit into slots in the floor. Bending up the typical Inchacore Buffer beams is the trickiest bit.

 

I need to prepare the artwork and a bending jig for the roof and axle guard patterns but would hope to have some samples available for the North Down Exhibition.

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John those are amazing models. The hard work and the desire to get them right has paid off. I think the brass kit is definitely the right choice. In the eight months that the group has been open we have have seen some truly remarkable models being produced from scratch. Whether they are kit's, rtr, or scratch builds. This will only produce positive results for the hobby and the group. It will also bring new members when they see just how many amazing modellers we have in every field.

 

I can't wait to see more from your stable. 2013 is going to be a cracking year, and your models will play a huge part in that.

 

Rich,

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I would echo all comments above. It just brings memories flooding back seeing these vans. I remember one trip I did from Limerick to Ballina in the one daily train which was two laminates and one of those 4 wheeled vans - and it looked distinctly lopsided that day for some reason. For the experts here on weathering (and there are more than a few judging by pics), these vans tended to be somewhat dirtier than passenger carrying vehicles, which in CIE days were always kept very clean, as were locos.

 

For the generation immediatly before the "tin vans", the then equivalent (behind a steam engine) was often a dilapidated old 6 wheel full brake with ducket. These could be of DSE, GSW or MGWR origin, and you'd see one tagged onto trains of even the most modern (laminate / Park Royal) stock. Tin vans, however, were also to be seen on steam trains when new (dirty / silver livery), often with an equally dilapitated old wooden bogie composite!

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Thanks for the positive feedback lads, the project has gone through some major changes since originally planned. The original idea was to use a 3D printed or resin core with brass overlays for ease of assembly, but the technology is not quite up to it at the moment

 

Yes Garfield the TPO is on the wish list once I sort out the container wagon into a more user friendly form.

P7T 2 001.jpg

TPO at Sligo © David Malone

 

A number of sources claim that the TPOs are narrower than the other vans which makes little sense as CIE seem to have stuck with 10"3" for Inchacore built stock in the late 50s early 60s.

 

Apart from the glorified wagon underframes the most striking thing is the sheer variety and variations between what are supposed to be standard vehicles, with variations in door and window arrangements between relatively small batches of vehicles.

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On the other side they had no windows at all, just the door at the end (left hand side, looking at it broadside). They were the same loading gauge dimensions as standard CIE template of the day. The only vans of any sort that have been narrower are the "BR" vans, as a result of having been built to BR loading gauge. At least one or two of these 4w PO vans was latterly converted to a brake / genny van. One was still kicking about Heuston / Inchicore until within the last few years, converted for use in the spray train. I would imagine that it is scrapped now.

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On the other side they had no windows at all, just the door at the end (left hand side, looking at it broadside). They were the same loading gauge dimensions as standard CIE template of the day. The only vans of any sort that have been narrower are the "BR" vans, as a result of having been built to BR loading gauge. At least one or two of these 4w PO vans was latterly converted to a brake / genny van. One was still kicking about Heuston / Inchicore until within the last few years, converted for use in the spray train. I would imagine that it is scrapped now.

 

It's still there!

Edited by Weshty
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P7T 1 001.jpg

Opposite side of TPO © D Malone

 

The TPO is almost a definite just need a decent A Class to pull the mails :P The train seems to have been made up of a combination of luggage vans for mail storage and a heating van for the Guard presumably there was a long stops at the more important stations to transfer mail bags to outlying Post Offices.

 

Tin van 2749 1 001.jpg

Luggage © D Malone

In GSR days there was a problem with speeding by the up Sligo mail whatever time it departed Sligo it always arrived just before closing time in Mullingar.

 

I hope to release the heating and luggage mid 2013, I have to sort out a number of patterns over the holidays.

Edited by Mayner
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Interesting detail on those two pics above. The PO van has irregular spacing of the roof beading lines, and the 2nd-last-from-right window on the "tin van" has been blocked out, obviously as a result of an entire new panel being put in. More scope for variety of models!

 

My recollections of mail trains was that you'd never get a train of four wheelers - one or two in a train of mostly bogies was more the norm. Those tin vans were, of course, on all sorts of passenger trains, including the "Enterprise" at one stage. I can remember seeing a tin van at each end of a train speeding towards Belfast headed by a 141. And the newspaper train ensured that they were no strangers to the old Portadown station.

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Mayner, I wonder if you have details of the PO vans that were converted to heating vans - I think only 2 or 3 of them were thus treated. The only external difference was the fuel tanks underneath - at the ends, as far as I recall. I saw a pic of one somewhere - might be able to find out the numbers... Inclusion of the tanks as an extra in a kit would allow (yet!) another variety!

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Mayner, I wonder if you have details of the PO vans that were converted to heating vans - I think only 2 or 3 of them were thus treated. The only external difference was the fuel tanks underneath - at the ends, as far as I recall. I saw a pic of one somewhere - might be able to find out the numbers... Inclusion of the tanks as an extra in a kit would allow (yet!) another variety!

 

Hi John

 

I have not come across that variation, finding information on the tin vans and their variations has been a mission, in comparison finding drawings and informatphotographs MGWR stock has been a doddle.

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  • 5 months later...

I thought I had better do an update thanks to prompting by Mr Bracken on RM Web.

 

The delay has mainly been due to having to replace all the 3D printed parts mainly with brass and obtaining a great big rolling mill from the UK to roll boilers and pre-form coach roofs and sides.

 

The mill finally arrived thanks to a machinery broker from Clare and the workshop is beginning to look like the inside of a sheetmetal works. Thanks Des!

 

I am planning to do a final test build of the vans with the new metal roofs in July finalise buffers and axleguards and release both versions of the tin vans before Christmas.

 

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Heating van with revised brass roof

 

Meanwhile a patternmaker has been busy beavering away in the UK and castings for the MGWR van are currently on order and should be available for those of a historic bent in September.

 

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Luggage Van (plastic roof to be replaced with brass)

 

Once the castings and roofs are sorted out I will be able to confirm price for a kit or assembled version.

 

The 650 Class 2-4-0 is making good progress I hope to do a test build in August and will post photos to give an idea of the various options and whats involved in building.

DSCF7301.JPG

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There are a few pre-assembled vans awaiting replacement roofs and buffers, which should be available from September.

 

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Specially for Richie I will need to leave it outside dunked in diesel over the Southern Winter to weather.

 

 

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Standard black and tan era hot water bottle.

 

never mind the length feel the width

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Beautiful work John. I have no doubt that these models will be a huge success. I know the amount of work that has gone into them, because I was working on a couple of similar projects a few years ago. The rolling mill is an absolute necessity for rolling boilers. I think rolling roofs, etched sides or coach sides designed for a kit or replacement for a rtr coach are better being done on a rolling mill for greater accuracy. I can't wait to see more progress.

 

Rich,

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GW Models.jpg

Beautiful work John. I have no doubt that these models will be a huge success. I know the amount of work that has gone into them, because I was working on a couple of similar projects a few years ago. The rolling mill is an absolute necessity for rolling boilers. I think rolling roofs, etched sides or coach sides designed for a kit or replacement for a rtr coach are better being done on a rolling mill for greater accuracy. I can't wait to see more progress.

 

Rich,

 

Richie,

 

By complete coincidence, John and I both got 4mm rollers from GW Models at the same time.

Simple, elegant, solid mechanical engineering at its best. c.Stg £75 inclusive of post, and worth every penny.

 

GW also does a rivetting machine (different sizes and a platform to do it in a straight line quite rapidly), and I fear the Gentleman's account may be hit for this as well in the near future...

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Believe it or not Des I spoke to George about four years ago about the Rolling Mills. The 10 inch roller was the biggest one he had. I was after something 12 inches that could be used for rolling roofs and sides on MK1 coaches, Bredins, etc. At the time George wasn't interseted in producing anything bigger than the 10 inch roller. I contacted http://www.metalsmith.co.uk as they had a 12 inch roller. At the time they said they were working on improving the roller and it wasn't for sale. They never have updated their website and I don't think they are even producing the bending bars anymore. I made a set of bending bars myself ages ago that could be held in a bench vice. I heated them up and dunked them in some oil to blacken them. They turned out smashing. I'd say they could be somewhere in my fathers house, finding them will be another thing.

 

I did find a supplier for rolling mills a few years back. I will post a link when I find it. Go for the riveting machine Des. I saw a chap using one some years ago at Scaleforum. It's a beauty and it gives much better results than Archer rivet decals. I'd say that the workshop at casa Sullivan is a real Aladins cave Des.

 

Rich,

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  • 2 months later...

I have finished the final test builds and fingers crossed will be releasing the production version of the Hot Water Bottle and Luggage Brake in October, the CAD work is just about complete for the MGWR 2-4-0 so a test build may appear around the same time. Both vans will be supplied complete with castings and OO wheel sets, buyer supply labour, couplings, solder/glue, nails, paint etc. I will do a step by step tutorial on building one of these vans. The basic body is brass with whitemetal and resin castings, the chassis is designed with a mounting plate for Kadee No 5 Couplers. The kits are priced at £55, a small number of rtr painted pre-production vans will be available at £100 each. I am looking at an initial run of 20 Heating and 10 Luggage vans, but will order more if there is sufficient interest. Please send me a PM if you would like to reserve a van or are interested. DSCF8252.JPG Luggage van underframe showing Northyard OO wheelset [/b][/b]

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